Bardon's Bullshit 'Kabbalah'

[BBBB]

Thank you for clarifying, I appreciate it! I'm still a bit new myself.

(whispers to her ear) "He doesn't know."
I wonder, if asked, "Doesn't Bardon have something like "self-reflecting awareness?", how he would squirm.
Comparing Gourdjieff to Bardon... Why study art in an academy? Just draw! You'll eventually learn how to create masterpieces. Right?

 

[Beyond Everything]

I wonder, if asked, "Doesn't Bardon have something like "self-reflecting awareness?",

I said he doesn't talk about it- in the context in terms of the creation of a true 'I' for higher development.

But we can look at what Bardon has that you may be referring to

You are sitting quietly in your familiar position with your eyes closed. Transfer your consciousness exactly into the middle of your body, into the pit of your stomach, the solar plexus. You must feel yourself as a mere dot, as an atom in the center between the spine and the pit f the stomach. This center is the center of gravity of your body. Try to stay there with your consciousness for at least five minutes; you may use an alarm clock to check the time. Regard your body from his point. The more diminutive you imagine yourself, the bigger you will perceive the circumference of your body, which will appear to you as a big universe. At this point, meditate as follows: “I am the center of my body; I am the determining power therein!”

This is quite unsatisfactory towards what I'm talking about. First of all, feeling yourself as a dot takes you out of the deeper possibilities of crystallizing the 'I' Im talking about. Also the imaginative exercise of changing your size. None of this is going to help with the extremely difficult and very subtle sort of processes involved. That goes again for the verbal affirmation, which might have some utility, but not for the self-reflecting awareness at that point, which is far beyond any verbal formulation and should be ideally 'pursued' into ever deeper states of consciousness- where using verbal formulations is obviously a total impediment.

Post automatically merged: Jan 13, 2026

Comparing Gourdjieff to Bardon... Why study art in an academy? Just draw! You'll eventually learn how to create masterpieces. Right?

If your professor of art is unable to draw- say- a Centaur (Bardon not being to heal himself), you may wonder why you're paying tuition.

 

[FireBorn]

@Beyond Everything what system, or style of magick would you recommend for someone interested in the Bardon system? Think outside the self healing aspect of it for a second, I'm sure most ppl aren't really thinking that's a thing, or at least not something they prioritize (hopefully).

 

[Beyond Everything]

@Beyond Everything what system, or style of magick would you recommend for someone interested in the Bardon system? Think outside the self healing aspect of it for a second, I'm sure most ppl aren't really thinking that's a thing, or at least not something they prioritize (hopefully).

Reiterating some of the points I made-

-Bardon is overrated (all the claims to his total mastery and him being the reincarnation of Hermes Trismegistus and etc)

-The letters simply don't accomplish what Bardon claims to anywhere the degree he says they do.

-Bardon wasn't teaching the highest initiatic realities

-Really taking in his concept of 'Divine Providence' is just more counterproductive programming that can induce 'subconscious' blocks and dependencies.

Now, if people don't care at all about these things, then they can go ahead and delve into Bardon's system if they wish. I never said it can't bring some results to people.

 

[FireBorn]

Reiterating some of the points I made-

-Bardon is overrated (all the claims to his total mastery and him being the reincarnation of Hermes Trismegistus and etc)

-The letters simply don't accomplish what Bardon claims to anywhere the degree he says they do.

-Bardon wasn't teaching the highest initiatic realities

-Really taking in his concept of 'Divine Providence' is just more counterproductive programming that can induce 'subconscious' blocks and dependencies.

Now, if people don't care at all about these things, then they can go ahead and delve into Bardon's system if they wish. I never said it can't bring some results to people.

Come on dude, I offered a bridge for you to cross and offer your opinion on what you DO recommend, not the reiterated points you articulated very clearly already. I, not even coming at this with aggression, honest inquiry into what you DO believe, not what you dont.

 

[Beyond Everything]

y

Come on dude, I offered a bridge for you to cross and offer your opinion on what you DO recommend, not the reiterated points you articulated very clearly already. I, not even coming at this with aggression, honest inquiry into what you DO believe, not what you dont.

I don't know what to tell you. Read all my previous posts if you're interested in some of my beliefs. I've even alluded to important things in this and in the other Bardon thread. If people just gloss over it and don't/can't contemplate what I said that's not my problem.

You asked what I would recommend for someone interested in Bardon. I answered. If someone is really interested in Bardon, then they can just study Bardon. I'm just laying out the problems/limits/misleading claims there. If you expect me to say X ready-made magic 'system' is a good substitute, things don't work that way. They simply don't exist in the kind of material- and spiritual- encompassing manner that Bardon's implies. As well, someone could be interested in Bardon for very different reasons and motivations.

People have to figure shit out and piece things together for themselves. It is extremely useful to understand what sort of limits and problems various popular occult routes have though, I wish someone had told me such things when I was starting out. But again, the hard truth is the occult is still hidden for a reason, no matter how many books are written. Real accomplishment brings unbelievable power (post-mortem), and as well there are various forces arrayed against real human potential.

On the other hand if someone just wants some goals achieved and to 'feel' more spiritual, they can just go with the popular occult paths.

 

[FireBorn]

y

I don't know what to tell you. Read all my previous posts if you're interested in some of my beliefs. I've even alluded to important things in this and in the other Bardon thread. If people just gloss over it and don't/can't contemplate what I said that's not my problem.

You asked what I would recommend for someone interested in Bardon. I answered. If someone is really interested in Bardon, then they can just study Bardon. I'm just laying out the problems/limits/misleading claims there. If you expect me to say X ready-made magic 'system' is a good substitute, things don't work that way. They simply don't exist in the kind of material- and spiritual- encompassing manner that Bardon's implies. As well, someone could be interested in Bardon for very different reasons and motivations.

People have to figure shit out and piece things together for themselves. It is extremely useful to understand what sort of limits and problems various popular occult routes have though, I wish someone had told me such things when I was starting out. But again, the hard truth is the occult is still hidden for a reason, no matter how many books are written. Real accomplishment brings unbelievable power (post-mortem), and as well there are various forces arrayed against real human potential.

On the other hand if someone just wants some goals achieved and to 'feel' more spiritual, they can just go with the popular occult paths.

Your second pass at it was much better. You actually put your skin in the game here.

 

[BBBB]

If anyone had any doubts left that Beyond Everything has nothing better to offer, they should have ended now. Not only that, but also self-contradicting: so, now people who are interested in Bardon should study Bradon? Thank you very much, we've already figured that out! You can stop throwing feces at us. But read everything BE said to find out his beliefs? I'm not interested in beliefs. I never asked for his beliefs. I asked what he could recommend, others asked what else he can recommend. He can't. End of story, end of conversation, stop wasting our time. Nothing wrong with criticizing something and speaking out your beliefs, but actively ridiculing a system and looking down on people who practice it, while not demonstrating competence in it, and not providing alternative, is bullshit. It's yours not Bardons.

 

[Beyond Everything]

If anyone had . But read everything BE said to find out his beliefs? I'm not interested in beliefs. I never asked for his beliefs.

Someone else did, oh bright one.

, stop wasting our time.

Who is forcing you to read me?

but actively ridiculing a system and looking down on people who practice it

If you consider pointing out major discrepencies such as the health claims vs health results to be 'ridicule', maybe consider your emotional issues around empiricism.

I tried showing you something specific regarding Bardon's technique (in relation to the self-reflecting awareness), but that passed underneath your awareness and over your head.

 

[Celestia]

Who is forcing you to read me?

No one has to stay here and read what you say. But you also can't force us to agree with you and dislike Bardon. Your take is valid. But you don't get to decide for everyone else. You can make this a 16 page thread where you shoot down everyone's opinions. That's fine. But at the end of the day we get to decide who we like and who we don't. You've made your stance clear. No doubt it's going to continue. You might as well get it all out.

 

[Beyond Everything]

A forceful argument is not the same as forcing someone to agree with you lol

You may feel that way, though, because no one can cobble together a substantial response to my original post.

 

[Hermetika]

A forceful argument is not the same as forcing someone to agree with you lol

You may feel that way, though, because no one can cobble together a substantial response to my original post.

But it sounds like you have studied and practiced Bardon's work quite substantially-at least more than most- and despite your disdain for the author and the system, it does sound like you have benefited... the development of the sovereign "I AM"? That neither you or Bardon or anyone else were/are able to achieve physical immortality doesn't invalidate the system. I take perfect health to mean spiritually, mentally, emotionally more than physically.

Other members have pointed out the environment he was living through and you brought up the question of why he didn't know this in advance and leave. I can't speak for Bardon obviously, but for some people self-preservation while family, friends and fellow people are dying or fighting in wars is simply against their morals-maybe there was a deeper reason as to why he didn't save himself and allow everyone else to suffer while he continued on with attaining perfect health and the rest of it. Maybe he was attuned with sticking it out with his countrymen for some bodhisatvic/karmic reason that only he would be able to speak to. I don't see this particular argument you've made as proof that spiritual entities don't exist. He had a choice- as we all do.

As one person mentioned Jesus, I'll bring him in here reluctantly but it is a good example of the internal spiritual wars we all face: the temptation in the desert by Satan- Jesus could have the world at his feet if he just..., you get the point I'm sure.

And as far as his health is concerned, again, people living through such difficult times that we cannot even imagine! And he should be in perfect health while others are suffering?

BE... I think that all practitioners need someone in their circle who can call them on their BS, and I can certainly respect the fact that you endeavor to cut through to the core in your own practice. But every path is a stepping stone to personal gnosis and liberation. You take what you need and you leave the rest. Only the practitioner can decide when they've completed their schooling and are in need of a different teacher or path. It sounds like you did this crooked journey too, as have many of us. So Maybe Bardon deserves more credit in your life than you allow. Finally, as you already know, his "system" is just an organization of other ancient systems. His works give people who don't have access to gurus or elders a structured starting point. Once the structure and discipline have been anchored, they are the basis for further development.

Final note: the master teaching the course should be a master... yes I see what you're saying, I think we all do to some degree, but I personally also have to accept that he and the rest of these teachers are still human and will get old and die.

He's Overrated in comparison to who? And I think that is why I have been interested in how this thread has been developing. It sounds like he was trying to give practitioners a good foundation and was far from pompous or grandiose about it. In our day and age, qualities of character that don't really exist anymore.

 

[Beyond Everything]

B That neither you or Bardon or anyone else were/are able to achieve physical immortality doesn't invalidate the system.

I said nothing about physical immortality. However, I have achieved better health and more through esoteric practices, so I know for a fact healing is possible.

Maybe he was attuned with sticking it out with his countrymen for some bodhisatvic/karmic reason that only he would be able to speak to. I don't see this particular argument you've made as proof that spiritual entities don't exist.

I wasn't saying spiritual 'entities' don't exist. I'm disputing his claims made for them and for the letters. It's pretty simple.

For myself, I don't buy these karmic martyr explanations. That is too close to religion....And if karma is such an overwhelming force, or divine providence a real counteracting principle, such that the powers you say exist still dont work, why even bother talking about these functionally useless powers in the first place? lol

It sounds like he was trying to give practitioners a good foundation and was far from pompous or grandiose about it.

What does this have to do with the subject of my original post? He did make grandiose claims in his 3rd book.

 

[Celestia]

I have achieved better health and more through esoteric practices, so I know for a fact healing is possible.

Which practices? Can you recommend any books?

 

[Beyond Everything]

Which practices? Can you recommend any books?

This is definitely not taught anywhere. It's a 'jewel' of my practice so I don't feel inclined to just divulge it to strangers. lol However I gave indications of one leg of it right in this thread in the discussion of awareness, the other leg is energywork performed further and further into that state.

I've said elsewhere that thoughts, emotions, thoughtforms, and other energetic factors age us. And the fewer you have, the slower you age. Regular meditation doesn't deal with this, it's mostly pacification (despite its other benefits). As an example, the focusing on the breath doesn't deal with all the other 'activity' going on, it just deals with a certain band of conscious awareness.

 

[Celestia]

Well, I can't force you to share your secrets.

Since I don't have access to the same secret system that you do, I'll have to rely on the sources I have: people like Franz Bardon, Crowley, and all of the other imperfect authors.

I'm ok with being wrong, according to one guy's opinion. I'll survive.

Personally, I combine all the controversial stuff:

Bardon, Dispenza, The Kybalion/W.W.A., Crowley/Thelema, The Traditional Hermetica, other Neo-New Thought teachers (Brian Tracy, Bob Proctor, Bruce Lipton, etc.), and even some () New-Agery.

I'm satisfied with that personally.

I'm ok with some people disagreeing with what I read, study, and practice. It's part of it.

 

[BBBB]

Well, I can't force you to share your secrets.

Since I don't have access to the same secret system that you do, I'll have to rely on the sources I have: people like Franz Bardon, Crowley, and all of the other imperfect authors.

I'm ok with being wrong, according to one guy's opinion. I'll survive.

Personally, I combine all the controversial stuff:

Bardon, Dispenza, The Kybalion/W.W.A., Crowley/Thelema, The Traditional Hermetica, other Neo-New Thought teachers (Brian Tracy, Bob Proctor, Bruce Lipton, etc.), and even some () New-Agery.

I'm satisfied with that personally.

I'm ok with some people disagreeing with what I read, study, and practice. It's part of it.

Just check Mark Rasmus youtube channel, there are enough about Bardon's hermetics videos from his training to form an oppinion. Beyond Everything is so "bold" exactly because he's so incompetent. What was the name? The less someone knows the more self-confident they are...

"This phenomenon is known as the Dunning-Kruger effect, a cognitive bias where individuals with limited knowledge or competence in a specific domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence. Because they lack the expertise to recognize their own incompetence, they display high, unwarranted confidence."

Thank you, google AI assistant)

 

[Beyond Everything]

Beyond Everything is so "bold" exactly because he's so incompetent.

I gave an explicit critique regarding self-reflective awareness. Instead of whining about me, you might attempt to grapple with it.

 

[frater_pan]

With so many materials available about Kabbalah nowadays, it can be clearly seen that Bardon's book on "Quabbalah" is just some fruitless fantasies. Even the word itself he uses, "Quabbalah", speaks volumes. Why not at least "Qabbalah"?

Why indeed? We'll have to look up Bardon's original manuscript in Czech, or Slovak or German (or possibly in Russian [not too likely though] or French or even English). In any of the languages except English, there were transliteration choices made. Then, even if Bardon wrote this in EN, he (and certainly the transliterater) would have been influenced by the fact that EN, at least American EN, always has a u after a leading q.

 

[Adelina]

Why indeed? We'll have to look up Bardon's original manuscript in Czech, or Slovak or German (or possibly in Russian [not too likely though] or French or even English). In any of the languages except English, there were transliteration choices made. Then, even if Bardon wrote this in EN, he (and certainly the transliterater) would have been influenced by the fact that EN, at least American EN, always has a u after a leading q.

Bardon wrote his books on German, it is the original language of his books, the original name of his "Quabbalah" book is "Der Schlüssel zur wahren Quabbalah. Der Quabbalist als vollkommener Herrscher im Mikro- und Makrokosmos", so the spelling "Quabbalah" was his personal choice. It is even emphasized by his "Quabbalah" being based on German alphabet with German-only letters (umlauts), but not even on Czech letters.

I must point out that Kabbalah operates with Hebrew Alphabet for a huge reason. 22 Hebrew Letters are directly linked to so many elements of Kabbalah teaching, Hebrew Alphabet is basically the very basis of Kabbalah, and Bardon doesn't provide even that. He doesn't even go with 22 "letter-equivalents" or some such, he uses the whole German Alphabet. It ends in total madness, like "U" is associated with "akasa" (totally "quabbalistic" concept... not!), while "W" (which is equivalent to "U" in actual Kabbalah) is associated with water...

Bardon's "Quabbalah" book has nothing to do with Kabbalah at all, anyone who knows at least some basics of Kabbalah will confirm this. Same about his other two books, it is just that his third book is the most glaring example of ridiculousness. His other two books aren't much better just better camouflaged as something "occult".