About gratitude

[Tset]

How much of a role do you think gratitude plays in magick and getting your magick to work?

 

[Philou]

A huge actually, as one of my mentor was Martinist so my rituals start with an evocation of dead mentors to thanks them and invite them as spectator.
Its super important, magic is not only a way to get a free IPHONE 6 or to curse your ex, its also a tradition.
A long tradition passed from men to men. We have martyrs, at times our precedessor risked a lot to practice and teach.
So yeah, you should really be greateful for magic to as reached us.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

How much of a role do you think gratitude plays in magick and getting your magick to work?

I personally think that gratitude can play the part of "without lust of result", which is a vital part of the process of magic.

You are grateful, you have automatically assumed the thing is done, you are not interfering by worrying about it.

 

[Beyond Everything]

It really depends on the individual and the peculiarities of their 'subconscious' and their total energy complex.

Many people with great wealth, social success, unusual talents, spiritual gifts etc, just take these things as baseline parts of their reality. They have large expectations (at least in the particular areas outlined) and gratitude doesn't figure into their psychic equation.

On the other hand, for some people it can be an aspect that seemingly can help shift them out of their stagnation in their manifestations.

However, in a deeper consideration, gratitude implies a kind of submissiveness that is detrimental to the kind of inner empowerment that is needed for higher esoteric achievements and absolute sovereignity.

 

[querent k]

At the most basic, if nothing else, gratitude makes you relax a bit, get your shoulders down, maybe even make reaching a flow state easier. And we humans are just experts at feeling ´´unlucky´´ about everything, so a bit of ´´oh, that was nice, well thankyou universe´´ is potent--and yes, I think the Feeling Unlucky is societal programming and something to escape, and yes magick is very much about escaping Control and feeling you have Luck, so...

 

[Tset]

It really depends on the individual and the peculiarities of their 'subconscious' and their total energy complex.

Many people with great wealth, social success, unusual talents, spiritual gifts etc, just take these things as baseline parts of their reality. They have large expectations (at least in the particular areas outlined) and gratitude doesn't figure into their psychic equation.

On the other hand, for some people it can be an aspect that seemingly can help shift them out of their stagnation in their manifestations.

However, in a deeper consideration, gratitude implies a kind of submissiveness that is detrimental to the kind of inner empowerment that is needed for higher esoteric achievements and absolute sovereignity.

I have often wondered about this very dynamic that you describe and the ability to genuinely connect gratitude to the practice. Gratitude comes naturally in some situations like the someone mentioned in the thread oh universe that is nice. Other than such situations, it could feel forced. I wonder though, how does one get to the baseline that wealthy folks tend to have (Let’s say you don’t have that wealth).

 

[Firetree]

If you start expressing gratitude for what you do have ..... you might start to realize how 'wealthy ' you are .

 

[Robert Ramsay]

The psychologist and sceptic, Richard Wiseman, wrote a book called 'The Luck Factor' where he tried to analyse what behaviours made people more lucky. One of the factors was whether people 'looked on the bright side' so that when bad things happened to them, they would, for example, comfort themselves that it could have been worse (because it can always be worse )

I believe that this is part of keeping yourself open to new possibilities, which is a useful thing to have if you want to end up being successful in those possibilities. Gratitude, IMO, is one method for accessing this.

Incidentally, one of his factors was 'use your intuition', which he implied was about picking up subconscious cues that we get from our environment, including from other people. He then goes on to give a classic example of a guy who listened to his intuition and didn't get on a plane, which then crashed. What mundane environmental cues did that guy get? Clearly, this was a magical experience, but Wiseman only says 'intuition' without saying 'hang on a minute'

 

[BlackRose97]

Gratitude is highly underrated in practical magick. It’s not about begging or being subservient to entities; it’s about alignment and energetic exchange. When you express genuine gratitude, you shift your own vibrational state from 'scarcity/wanting' to 'abundance/having.' It essentially signals to your subconscious and the spiritual currents that the result is already yours and has been successfully received. It closes the feedback loop beautifully.

 

[nunaphael]

TL;DR, I believe when something compels you to feel gratitude, but does not demand it, then it is appropriate to show it.

Long version:

Because I don't treat magic like programming a computer, rather, it's more like improvisational jazz with my jazz buddies, I view gratitude as vital to the process. However, I want to make a distinction between forced gratitude and genuine gratitude. Forced gratitude is when you show gratitude because you believe you ought to, because you believe you should, like, it's a protocol, a function, again, like programming a computer. Genuine gratitude is not like this. You are not "obeying" anything except yourself. It comes from a place inside of you that is sacred to you and defines you, not the other entity, and not whatever it is you are doing. I show gratitude to indicate that I AM a being that shows gratitude. It is what I am. It is not a "subservience" to anything, and it is not submissive in the slightest. Quite the opposite, it is a declaration of my total sovereignty, precisely because it was my decision, and mine alone, and was made completely regardless for how it might be received or interpreted by any other being. I am proclaiming a divine law, my decree, my judgment, my authority, by expressing my thanks to the forces of nature when I know that I do NOT "have to" to do.

 

[Beyond Everything]

TL;DR, I believe when something compels you to feel gratitude,

This

, it is a declaration of my total sovereignty, precisely because it was my decision, and mine alone,

doesn't comport with this. If you're compelled, you are not making a free decision. To me this sounds like post hoc rationalization for unexamined and instinctual reactions.

Gratitude is highly underrated in practical magick. It’s not about begging or being subservient to entities; it’s about alignment and energetic exchange. When you express genuine gratitude, you shift your own vibrational state from 'scarcity/wanting' to 'abundance/having.' It essentially signals to your subconscious and the spiritual currents that the result is already yours and has been successfully received. It closes the feedback loop beautifully.

I did note for some people it can function that way. For (many) others it just keeps them on whatever undesirable hamster wheel they want. And as I've noted, for those enjoying or exhibiting high levels of material or spiritual fruits, they are often simply expecting it and/or used to it and gratitude doesn't figure at all.

If one wishes to advance, it is vital to interrogate all emotions and the entire inner landscape. As well, the notion of gratitude is intimately culturally entwined with slave religions and their inhibiting energies.

 

[nunaphael]

This

doesn't comport with this. If you're compelled, you are not making a free decision. To me this sounds like post hoc rationalization for unexamined and instinctual reactions.


I did note for some people it can function that way. For (many) others it just keeps them on whatever undesirable hamster wheel they want. And as I've noted, for those enjoying or exhibiting high levels of material or spiritual fruits, they are often simply expecting it and/or used to it and gratitude doesn't figure at all.

If one wishes to advance, it is vital to interrogate all emotions and the entire inner landscape. As well, the notion of gratitude is intimately culturally entwined with slave religions and their inhibiting energies.

Your unconscious and unaddressed fear of gratitude is none of my concern, and nothing I said was contradictory at all, except in your mind, because you need it to be in order to justify your chosen perspective.

 

[Shade]

How much of a role do you think gratitude plays in magick and getting your magick to work?

Gratitude is key, you want to be in alignment with the results you are looking for and gratitude hwlps balance youand achiever greater acceptance, as Ramsay mentioned, it keeps you from lusting after the results but it is also showing your higher self/mind/ energy you put in for the results that you have a grateful disposition subconsciously speaking your goal into existence.

 

[Firetree]

This

doesn't comport with this. If you're compelled, you are not making a free decision. To me this sounds like post hoc rationalization for unexamined and instinctual reactions.


I did note for some people it can function that way. For (many) others it just keeps them on whatever undesirable hamster wheel they want. And as I've noted, for those enjoying or exhibiting high levels of material or spiritual fruits, they are often simply expecting it and/or used to it and gratitude doesn't figure at all.

If one wishes to advance, it is vital to interrogate all emotions and the entire inner landscape. As well, the notion of gratitude is intimately culturally entwined with slave religions and their inhibiting energies.

Ohhh please !

Its easy just to 'say stuff ' , but where is the evidence of your claim ? ..... indigenous traditions here know the value of gratitude and NEVER developed any 'slave religions' or even slavery ..... indigenous people all over the world do it too .

Anyone that 'gets out a bit' ( meaning ; many people realize some indigenous do not have much or any material possessions but are happy - meanwhile grumpy rich westerners be bitchin they dont have enough , want more, get confounded why those people ARE so satisfied and have gratitude for what they do have and then get all hoity toity and declare that showing a bit of gratitude must be 'intimately culturally entwined with slave religions and their inhibiting energies.' ) know and realize this

Which is a pretty clear indication that you are trying to project some cultural dynamic YOU had difficulty with, in your own culture, on to anyone else that knows and practices this valuable psychological asset .

Dont tell us 'if one wishes to advance ' like that ... make it ''If I wish to advance '' .

Its rather a huge projection of your issues onto others .

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[Beyond Everything]

Ohhh please !

Its easy just to 'say stuff ' , but where is the evidence of your claim ?

Dont tell us 'if one wishes to advance ' like that ... make it ''If I wish to advance '' .

My perspective is twofold- ultimate development and absolute sovereignty. These can involve very subtle issues, and the materia is often that which is most taken for granted in the interior economy. Going 'with the flow' of what's expected biologically and culturally is not the royal road to initiated immortality.

I really do not care one whit about whatever tradition practices. The track record for all religions and traditions is quite abysmal in terms of the ultimate liberation of humans.

 

[Shade]

"Also the Iron Iroquois teachings, gratitude is seen as a vital virtue that fosters a positive relationship with the world. It is defined as an acknowledgment of the gifts and blessings received from the natural world and the Creator. Gratitude is not merely an expression of thanks; it is a way of life that permeates every aspect of Iroquois culture."

"The Words Spoken Before All Others" aka the "Ohenton Karihwatehkwen" is an extensive part in the world creation, mythos, their spirituality, ritual and everyday community life.
The words spoken before all others is a deep reverent Gratitude so all this is to say, Gratitude has an extremley profound impact on life, so much so the Iroquois interwoven the very practice in creation itself.

 

[Firetree]

My perspective is twofold- ultimate development and absolute sovereignty. These can involve very subtle issues, and the materia is often that which is most taken for granted in the interior economy. Going 'with the flow' of what's expected biologically and culturally is not the royal road to initiated immortality.

I really do not care one whit about whatever tradition practices. The track record for all religions and traditions is quite abysmal in terms of the ultimate liberation of humans.

Was that an attempt at defelection ?

 

[Beyond Everything]

Was that an attempt at defelection ?

Deflection from what? Your avowel that indigenous people practice gratitude is not impressive to me, sorry. I don't operate my spiritual existence on the authority , traditions, or emotionally-based dogmas of others.

OP asked about gratitude and magical results. We can divide magical results into those of material results, and those involving one's personal evolution into a higher state of existence.

In terms of material results, as I have pointed out twice now- many people with results in sundry areas don't practice gratitude. They just feel they deserve such things, or automatically assume they are part of their experience. I have never practiced gratitude and I've had plenty of significant results through my esoteric practices. So we can state conclusively it is not a prerequisite.

In terms of higher development, gratitude is a submissive stance, and such development of a higher order is the antipode of any submission of any sort. Try energetically investigating gratitude and exploring the depths of it rather than just passively accepting what others say about it.

Since the people here for the most part have grown up in christian dominated nations, referencing gratitudes intertwining with those religious energies is hardly off-the-wall.

 

[nunaphael]

Try energetically investigating gratitude and exploring the depths of it rather than just passively accepting what others say about it.

I know you have never done this. If you had, you would not be acting this way or believe any of the things you claim to believe. You are a pretender using empty rhetoric to try and persuade people who hopefully are able to see through your deception and are not impressed by it. Those who have already done precisely what you just said understand the true vibrational energy at the core of the deepest gratitude, and it is not "submissive" at all.

You know nothing about what you speak of.

 

[Beyond Everything]

I know you have never done this. If you had, you would not be acting this way or believe any of the things you claim to believe. You are a pretender using empty rhetoric to try and persuade people who hopefully are able to see through your deception and are not impressed by it. Those who have already done precisely what you just said understand the true vibrational energy at the core of the deepest gratitude, and it is not "submissive" at all.

You know nothing about what you speak of.

The core of the hidden real self is not a secondary being that has to give thanks for existing, but pure power.