[Opinion] Islamic systems of magick

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Reading some ONA documents brought this question to mind as to why one is urged within the ONA to join Islam.
I thought of tacking onto the existing o9a thread, but then the question broadened in my mind into several questions.

If Islam has built in magickal systems or the Quran can be used to wield Magick?

if the Pyramid Sage Talismans are a basis for later Islamic Talismans?

How magi within Islam are not viciously persecuted?

Why djinn are a popular base of Magick and how?

 

[Taudefindi]

How magi within Islam are not viciously persecuted?

Aren't the magi the Zoroastrian priests?Isn't being a priest different from being a "witch" in their view?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

One would hope, I'm sure. I honestly know close to nothing about the near East or their religions.

 

[Yazata]

Aren't the magi the Zoroastrian priests?

Far as I know, the Magi indeed are Persian and they were referred to with the slur "Gabr" (fire - Gabriel). In later times muslims used this for everyone who wasn't muslim. Funny that in Dutch "Gabber" means "friend".

In "die Geschichte der Alchemie" by K.C. Schmieder he writes how every time islam conquered a region, there was a sudden revolution in muslim spiritual knowledge, but that the understanding / development of the ideas died with the conquered people.

 

[Taudefindi]

In "die Geschichte der Alchemie" by K.C. Schmieder he writes how every time islam conquered a region, there was a sudden revolution in muslim spiritual knowledge, but that the understanding / development of the ideas died with the conquered people.

A pity, for this feels like such a waste.

 

[Jadugar]

If Islam has built in magickal systems or the Quran can be used to wield Magick?

The funny thing is that usually Satanic magic that uses the quran comparatively more in Islamic belief. "Licit magicians" have used the Quran, stars, Arabic letters, natural ingredients, etc. but most notions of the sahir ("witch" in the unholy sense) have them, say, writing the Quranic verses backwards, or using "impure" inks like uterine blood or human waste, or placing the Quran in demeaning places. The idea is that these acts please the shaytan who then perform duties for the magician in exchange. Probably why a Satanist group enjoys it, but I don't claim any knowledge about O9A.

And as for if you mean the Persian Magi, their treatment by Muslim society has not been universally positive, but they are considered "people of the book" (groups mentioned in the Quran who are given a pass for not being explicitly Muslims because they're, essentially, monotheists with a holy book—Christians and even the star-worshipping Sabbians were part of this). So there have been pockets of tolerance in history. But if you mean magicians in general, Saudi Arabia still has anti-witchcraft laws, but du'a-neevis (prayer writers) are still popular in the Muslim world, along with exorcists and such. Magic in Islam is a fraught history with a lot of people clamoring for validity.

 

[Taudefindi]

placing the Quran in demeaning places.

I've heard of that, like placing the book in a bathroom or a dirty room or even the sewers.

 

[Xingtian]

It should be emphasized that Islam, historically, is a lot more diverse and a lot weirder than the highly sanitized, rationalized version pushed by the Gulf States or even many modern Sufis. Imagine if some Calvinist country with a shit ton of money managed to convince people all over the world that all Christians everywhere are Calvinists and everyone else is a heretic, that’s kind of the situation we’re dealing with, with the effectiveness of Saudi/ Wahhabi propaganda.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Thank you for all of the replies, and I have been seeing a lot of book shares on the subject. So there are resources to pick up on this.
I know a little about Ahura-Mazda vs Ahriman, but very little on that. I think that was Zoroastrian, but not sure.

 

[Voidking]

Being a born muslim in North Africa, I think I could contribute with some insights to this, although I'm not very informed of the occult scene in my country because of the risks involved.

Sufi orders are basically the occult counterparts of any western occult orders, they are initiatory traditions, and their teachings are very secretive.
Just to illustrate an example, a real sufi sect of the capital city will have its "headquarters" hidden underground under a common-man shop. Their teachings are based on the Quran (as word of power) and many other secret texts passed down from Sheikh to disciple. Real sufi orders are very similar to Tantra and include sexual yogas, even Shaktipat is given in initiation. Again I emphasize "REAL" because mainstream sufism is a fraud.
Please note that I'm not expert on this and a fellow might step in to correct me. The aim is theurgical-unity with the divine, or Fanaa-the annihilation of the self and learning to die before you die.

As for the witchcraft aspect, most of North African magic is from the berber/amazigh indigenious people of the land and the phoenicians, Saturn-AmonBaal and his consort Tanit were worshipped here by the phoenicians and also the greeks and romans.
North African Magic is very similar to PGM magic and phoenician magic, it doesn't have any theurgical aspect and it mostly done to improve our day to day life, it consists of necromantic spells using animal remains or human bones etc...

 

[Xenophon]

The

Reading some ONA documents brought this question to mind as to why one is urged within the ONA to join Islam.
I thought of tacking onto the existing o9a thread, but then the question broadened in my mind into several questions.

If Islam has built in magickal systems or the Quran can be used to wield Magick?

if the Pyramid Sage Talismans are a basis for later Islamic Talismans?

How magi within Islam are not viciously persecuted?

Why djinn are a popular base of Magick and how?

Part of joining Islam by an O9A adherent would be as an "insight role." A stage in one's personal and occult development, not a final "position." Part of it, too, is that radical Islam is seen as kindred to certain O9A goals, insofar as both are foes of present-day Magian "civilization." O9A's infatuation with Islam was never more than a phase, and never more than one option among others. (An O9A member might just as legitimately---for their purposes---join a far-right organization, a monastic order, or BLM. Whether his actions would be in accord with perceived O9A goals or the group's stated ones, well, that all depends...)

 

[Blackrose00]

Reading some ONA documents brought this question to mind as to why one is urged within the ONA to join Islam.
I thought of tacking onto the existing o9a thread, but then the question broadened in my mind into several questions.

If Islam has built in magickal systems or the Quran can be used to wield Magick?

if the Pyramid Sage Talismans are a basis for later Islamic Talismans?

How magi within Islam are not viciously persecuted?

Why djinn are a popular base of Magick and how?

magic is forbidden and prohibited in Islam

 

[Xenophon]

magic is forbidden and prohibited in Islam

All the Islamic jurists have prohibited magick, true. The fact that they saw need to do so points to enduring magickal traditions in Islamic countries. The online library at U. Penn lists a couple of dozen major works by authors in said lands. See: onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu

 

[Voidking]

magic is forbidden and prohibited in Islam

Magic is forbidden and prohibited by mainstream Sunni sects and not all Islam, many shia sects and sufi orders are built upon Magic. They went underground because of the persecutions from the Sunnis.

(I'm born Sunni but do not identify with Abrahimic religions any longer)

 

[Blackrose00]

Dude, it doesn't matter what the sects say
It is clearly stated as haram in the Qur'an and this issue is closed.
Comments made without knowing Islam are funny and sad

 

[Voidking]

Well yes, I agree, the Quran was compiled by the Sahaba and at some all the Qurans were burned on command from Uthman to be re-compiled once again. I personally challenge even the first version of the Quran. Also note that the book was compiled after the demise of the prophet.

My point is I doubt that what is taught by muhammad to "ahl il bayt" is similar to what is being taught nowadays by mainstream muslims... the spiritual/magical side of islam was inherited by the Shia sects and Sufi orders while Sunnis promote political agendas, empire expansion and warfare.

Keep this discussion healthy and friendly, no need for being hostile.

 

[Blackrose00]

My friend, I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense.
1 - I'm not the enemy, don't fantasize
2 - Even today it is proven that the Quran has not changed
3 - Islam is perfect, not people
4 - Do not talk about some kind of issues without thoroughly researching them
5 - don't blame Islam for the wrongs committed by others in the name of Islam
many agents have pretended to be teachers and established their own sects.
And don't forget this

 

[Vandheer]

(I'm born Sunni but do not identify with Abrahimic religions any longer)

Why did you quit?

Post automatically merged: Feb 20, 2024

All the Islamic jurists have prohibited magick, true. The fact that they saw need to do so points to enduring magickal traditions in Islamic countries. The online library at U. Penn lists a couple of dozen major works by authors in said lands. See: onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu

Or see:

Harut and Marut

 

[Xingtian]

Dude, it doesn't matter what the sects say
It is clearly stated as haram in the Qur'an and this issue is closed.
Comments made without knowing Islam are funny and sad

“The book says you can’t do it, therefore it doesn’t happen”: this is not how religions work, especially ancient and widespread ones. Fundies quoting verses and engaging in no-true-Scotsman are just another ingredient of the soup. And when it comes to “magic” and cognate terms in various languages, the term is very amorphous and the loopholes are huge. Whether one calls it “magic” or something more pious like “prayer”, “spirituality,” etc Islamic magic exists. Here’s an exercise for you: define magic.

 

[Xenophon]

“The book says you can’t do it, therefore it doesn’t happen”: this is not how religions work, especially ancient and widespread ones. And it comes to “magic” and cognate terms in various languages, the term is very amorphous and the loopholes are huge. Whether one calls it “magic” or something more pious like “prayer”, “spirituality,” etc Islamic magic exists.

To echo your point, I am reminded of the perhaps apocryphal anecdote about Queen Victoria. She declared that there was no such thing as lesbians because, "Ladies do not behave that way."