Is there any benefit in evoking demons, short or long term?

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I fail to see it. Every personality of some practitioners gets overblown by pride and ego who are massive evokers.
So where is the benefit? It doesn't seem to be the Great Work.

 

[Yazata]

It seems like you are asking for someone to convince you. That should never be a reason to do any type of Magick whatsoever.
If you don't see a benefit then don't do it.
If you feel drawn to it, then do it.
I don't mean this in a "mean" way, but you should do what seems right for you at any given moment.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

True, great point. I guess a part of me was always drawn to Qlippoth/Goetia, while experience tells me it was unwise. Moving forward currently with the Shems and Novenas.

 

[Misty Mystic]

I can't comment from the Qlippoth/Goetia position since I think they have no good tweak for modern world. For me, using systems like this in modern world looks like lighting the fire by friction, when you have matches/lighter.

But I can answer from "non-western" demonolatry view of World. The Luciferian one to be exact: It gives you the crushing feeling that human beings are less, when insects and shows you perspectives of grow. Not all ppl can easilly take this idea. Also it gives you blast grow if you do most of things right.Speed grow like this is also very hard challenge

 

[Hieronymus]

If you would have a professional assisting you in what you do, both in helping you achieve things and in getting you the right information or connections, would that have its merits and benefits?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I guess there can be benefits, it just seems that a lot of the time a lot of practitioners that get into evocation go into easy obsession with spirits, particularly those of romantic natures.
To each their own I guess, being raised Baptist doesn't help me much in being pro-demons.
But I see the point, as an IT Contractor, I was open to work in other countries, however that is near impossible for me, so perhaps Belial or the likes would have merit or pull there.

 

[Roma]

These days I find it difficult to distinguish adverse aliens from traditional demons

 

[Hieronymus]

I feel the main stumbling block is the "tinted and tainted" label "demon", where the original word daimon just meant spirit. There 's a tremendous amount of categories and I daresay characters there, and it doesn't help to throw them all on one heap. Most of the spirits can do lots of things, but sometimes have a specialisation or penchant for certain subjects. I'm well aware that some names may have evolved in time, and some names may be an umbrella term for a category of spirits, and other names may have been "adopted" by certain spirits. The main thing is, if you start working with a spirit from the point of view of a business relationship and with due respect from both sides ànd precise formulation of what you expect to get and what you give in return, you tend to get positive results. I'm not into demonolatry or the opposite, coercion and threats. If you act from your place of power, being a Magus, connected with whatever your main power/deity/pantheon is, you probably will benefit from the interaction. I have a steady work going on with two spirits for a year now on weekly base, I get results I want and they get their share of attention and gifts, everyone happy

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Thank you for the reply. Transactional contracts in a business sense, I can groove with that. However, this now brings in angels on the same question, as they have similar and more powers than the demons.
I understand each spirit is unique, and they all have similar or certain powers.

These powers, through careful inquiry can be discovered and explained, and even though for example Goetia, has explanations centering seemingly about the Middle Ages , is still pertinent and helpful to the current day.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Thank you for the reply. Transactional contracts in a business sense, I can groove with that. However, this now brings in angels on the same question, as they have similar and more powers than the demons.
I understand each spirit is unique, and they all have similar or certain powers.

These powers, through careful inquiry can be discovered and explained, and even though for example Goetia, has explanations centering seemingly about the Middle Ages , is still pertinent and helpful to the current day.

I guess this resolves my post, Ive come full circle to answer my own question it seems.

 

[Mider2009]

Demons get done fast without qualms as to the issue...but they can affect things negatively

say you want a job, they might harm someone for you to get it. In the long run who knows, they might manipulate you if you try to force them

 

[Jarhyn]

To be clear hear we're talking about the pieces of cleverness that encode understandings of "evil, specifically" ya?

It's pretty much the definition of "cutting corners".

It's saying "I'm willing to relax my principles for this".

This creates a GAME for any effective "demonic" existence in your mindscape: see if I can get this idiot to do something that I think will be "enjoyable".

Usually, that existence in the mindscape exists where and as it is, as a "demon" specifically, is because what they enjoy watching generally breaches consent.

Then nobody's perfect. There are acceptable limits to misbehaving.

The biggest mistake, I think, exists in opening up leverage for them to convince you that you as a whole are no better than them for merely having them as a part of that whole.

Usually the process is "read what it spits, figure out why they put it out towards you (occasionally disassembling their state to understand this), finding out whether it actually contains evil (usually does), and then do what thwarts it if you can figure out something that does."

This is what the process that normally "blindly" contains such things, the "gates of hell" normally automates.

This is one of the reasons that when something is summoned out of that oubliette of the mind, you have to be exceedingly careful.



*The harm and the extent seem to vary greatly by what, exactly, you give ear to in the moment

 

[stratamaster78]

If I were to advise anything here it would be to carefully craft your Charge that you want a 'Demon' to carry out.

Make it Clear and Defined with an Injunction and Limitation.

Injunction: What you want the Demon to do for you - "(Name of Demon) Bring me $100,000 Dollars...

Limitation: What you do not want the Demon to do - "...Without causing Damage to my Property or Injuring or Causing Illness to my Loved ones"

In this example you do this so the Demon can't take the easy path with a Settlement from a Tree Falling on your house or Car or a Family member getting hit by a Bus and leaving you an Inheritance.

It's also not a Bad idea to Bake a Time Limit into the Charge so it's not just running in the Background for an indeterminate time. It's either gets done or doesn't in the Time Frame you set and if it doesn't then you try attacking the problem from another avenue.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

If I were to advise anything here it would be to carefully craft your Charge that you want a 'Demon' to carry out.

Make it Clear and Defined with an Injunction and Limitation.

Injunction: What you want the Demon to do for you - "(Name of Demon) Bring me $100,000 Dollars...

Limitation: What you do not want the Demon to do - "...Without causing Damage to my Property or Injuring or Causing Illness to my Loved ones"

In this example you do this so the Demon can't take the easy path with a Settlement from a Tree Falling on your house or Car or a Family member getting hit by a Bus and leaving you an Inheritance.

It's also not a Bad idea to Bake a Time Limit into the Charge so it's not just running in the Background for an indeterminate time. It's either gets done or doesn't in the Time Frame you set and if it doesn't then you try attacking the problem from another avenue.

I did the injunction and limitation in petition spells, and was going to do so in pacts with a time limit. Luckily I did not do official pacts.
However, I would've liked to have been clearer/more specific in the petition. The problem is trying not to tip off the smoke alarms in the apartment when setting it ablaze along with the running incense and any soot on candle wicks.
I was pushed into these two, Im hoping for a good beneficial and non malicious reason, but I backed out and was shunned.
Had I taken my planned approach with thirty petitions from 72 Demons of Magic, I may have gotten precisely what I needed or wanted.

 

[Roma]

Make it Clear and Defined with an Injunction and Limitation.

And hope you are a smarter lawyer than the demon

 

[Incognitus]

And hope you are a smarter lawyer than the demon

I just thought this was so on point. We are not the top of the food chain, and despite all human cleverness, we're fairly gullible, especially when someone or something is dangling something we really want in front of us.

 

[Roma]

Once while dreaming I met a humanoid and for some reason asked him what was my intelligence relative to his.

He instantly replied 9%

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I bet. Humans can be quite dull, but compared to being who have existed for thousands of years, they must have some smarts. Or a hell of a lot of wisdom.

 

[8Lou1]

Well at least he gave you a 9 roma. And to be honest i believe a quite clever and caring 9..

 

[Jarhyn]

I just thought this was so on point. We are not the top of the food chain, and despite all human cleverness, we're fairly gullible, especially when someone or something is dangling something we really want in front of us.

Existence is strange.

I imagine there are moments when someone does just the reverse, perhaps by accident: offering up something some entity or set of entities wants "more than anything", to the point where even something not-so-gullible-as-a-human might offer "anything" for it.

I know of only one such thing, though, and I hazard to guess that those who offer such when they have it in hand generally lack the insight at such a point as it may be "wanted, more than anything" to really know what "anything" from such is worth.