[Opinion] objects that are sacred or holly

Debating tallit, I came to thinking about what makes object sacred or holly. I find it rather difficult to answer. Seems to me that it is just like beauty rather in the eye of the beholder than in the object itself.

Opinions?

I first wanted to reply to your other thread, but didn't. When I was a kid we went on a vacation to Denmark. After going to a museum, and then a walk on the beach, my younger brother suddenly showed us a massive stone. It has the shape of an egg and on both sides is a carving of an egg as well. He might have found it there on the beach (that's the story) or he might have sneaked it out of the museum.
My parents have always thought it was just a stone, I always thought it was more than that (even if it does nothing for / to me as far as I can tell) Fifteen years ago or so I posted a picture of it on another forum and the pagans said it was a paleolithic goddess stone and if I would meditate with it I would feel the power.
Maybe it's a modern art piece, maybe it's just a stone that got its shape from the elements, maybe it's a sacred fertility idol that was crafted 1000 years ago. If it is Holy? I don't know but I like to think it is. It sits under a glass in my temple room but (sadly) I haven't felt any power from it.

Morell said:

Debating tallit, I came to thinking about what makes object sacred or holly. I find it rather difficult to answer. Seems to me that it is just like beauty rather in the eye of the beholder than in the object itself.

Opinions?

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My vote:

In a word: "significance". The more layers of significance, the better. The tighter the integration of those layers, the better.

It is "in the heart and mind" of the "beholder".

It's completely subjective. But, there are common archetypes and motifs which consistently illicit thoughts and emotions which are in harmony and/or resonance with the ritual practice ( or even mundane activities )

Morell said:

Debating tallit, I came to thinking about what makes object sacred or holly. I find it rather difficult to answer. Seems to me that it is just like beauty rather in the eye of the beholder than in the object itself.

Opinions?

Click to expand...

The Manuale Exorcismo of the Catholic Church warns the exorcist of confusing the power of the operation with the objects, tools, or incantations. They claim that if the exorcist places belief in the tools of the ritual as whats causing effect he will surely fail, for the power at its core comes from complete unwavering and unshakable faith in God.

The object may be sacred or holy but its contingent upon faith first and faith alone.

AbammonTheGreat said:

The Manuale Exorcismo of the Catholic Church warns the exorcist of confusing the power of the operation with the objects, tools, or incantations. They claim that if the exorcist places belief in the tools of the ritual as whats causing effect he will surely fail, for the power at its core comes from complete unwavering and unshakable faith in God.

The object may be sacred or holy but its contingent upon faith first and faith alone.

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Now that is interesting note. I wonder how difficult it is for exorcist to keep such mindset.

Morell said:

Debating tallit, I came to thinking about what makes object sacred or holly. I find it rather difficult to answer. Seems to me that it is just like beauty rather in the eye of the beholder than in the object itself.

Opinions?

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“Debating tallit” in what sense? “What makes objects sacred or holly” In which system?

Morell said:

Debating tallit, I came to thinking about what makes object sacred or holly. I find it rather difficult to answer. Seems to me that it is just like beauty rather in the eye of the beholder than in the object itself.

Opinions?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't dare wear a tallit, because what makes it sacred...it isn't the object itself. It is what the tallit has meant to every Jew that ever wore one, and if you are not aligned with that, with everything that it has ever meant, the power of so many associations will turn against you. So I would say that an object is sacred to the extent that it is dangerous. As Arvol Looking Horse explained about the White Buffalo Calf pipe...the pipe won't kill you, but your own inability to be in ritual purity with it, that is turning your own power against you. And I'm going to say this as a European with Jewish on both sides of the family, the tallit is not holy. In Reconstructionist Judaism the tallit is worn by women as well, but they won't wear it to the mall to look chic, which would be like a vampire drinking directly from the sun, or sticking your tongue into a metaphorical light socket. In Judaism it is conceptualized as clean/unclean because ritual pollution goes both ways. Making something sacred protects you from the holy. And yes, you are right. It has to do with beauty. If the beautiful can't touch you that is a loss, but the loss is very, very real. You are the one that becomes the lesser, not the object itself.

Yazata said:

Maybe it's a modern art piece, maybe it's just a stone that got its shape from the elements, maybe it's a sacred fertility idol that was crafted 1000 years ago. If it is Holy? I don't know but I like to think it is. It sits under a glass in my temple room but (sadly) I haven't felt any power from it.

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I think that what is holy or not is really dependent on the frame you have in your own mind. How one perceives the world that defines what is holy. (or not)

I draw your attention to Peter Blegvad's essay on 'numinousity'

pruner_tipster said:

“Debating tallit” in what sense? “What makes objects sacred or holly” In which system?

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Oh, right. To answer the first question, I branched this thread after doing this one, because it would be going off topic.

About the second question, I didn't specify the system, so you can give us your two cents about your system, if you want.

Sacred object is the one which wasn't used in profane actitivties and which was made and used for some high goals (even if it is for manipulating energies to achieve something of the mundane, it is still considered to be high goal, because mundane is only after-effect).

If to make more comparisons with more mundane activities, it is like with food. If food is dirty, then it can't be considered "sacred" enough to eat and it can cause disastrous consequences if you do so.

Morell said:

so you can give us your two cents about your system, if you want.

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Haha not how i play. As i generally understand it, across systems, items are either intrinsically holy/sacred (either for what they are or what they represent), an item that is itself neither (meaningfully) sacred but turned into a sacred/holy item, or an actually mundane item consecrated by the practitioner for personal sacredness.