[Help] If an occultist's reality bubble is strong enough, can external physical events from "lower" consciousness levels even affect them?

MALINKI_MITI · Aug 12, 2025

Fellow occultists, I have a mind-bending puzzle that's been haunting me

So here's the thing - any serious occultist must go through a complete revaluation of all values to build an authentic foundation for their own symbolic system. This is the only way to achieve coherent emanation, that perfect resonance between ida and pingala, positive and negative currents, ultimately reaching the light body through optimally functioning biophotons.

Whether we're working with demonic or angelic intelligences, ritual work is essentially about creating your own center of power - it's all one massive self-convincing process designed to access layers of the psyche that are normally beyond conscious experience.

Here's my question though:

If an occultist develops such a coherent symbolic system that their attention literally doesn't register any foreign stimuli (since our attention is constantly bombarded by sensory input, but we only perceive what fits our reality template), what happens when they get hit by something completely outside their paradigm?

Let's say this occultist gets blindsided - literally hit in the back with a rock thrown by some random normie. Which reality is "real" here? The occultist's reality where this shouldn't be possible, or the normie's reality where they just chucked a rock?

Will the occultist actually experience being hit, or do you think their coherent aura/field is so strong that the normie's interpretation won't even register, and the rock-throwing incident simply won't manifest?

I'm dead serious about this question because the topic is incredibly complex. The best I've found in books are empirical practices, but never the actual mechanism behind how they work.

Would really appreciate anyone who takes the time to focus on this and contribute to unraveling these mysteries.

cormundum · Aug 12, 2025

This is where Agrippa, Robert Anton Wilson, and Neville Goddard make great allies in the conflict against the powers of darkness/Aristotalianism.

My view is that a magician who is really confident enough will not have these problems. I have been in remarkably dangerous situations that anybody else would have been greatly harmed by others in my exact position, but instead nothing happened to me and everything panned out well. The biggest problem is overwriting really bad programming from your childhood, like if you were trained to believe you need to be poor and sick, and similar concerns like that. If one firmly believes that "this is the way it is" about whatever issue, there will be problems (in my experience) that come up especially as you try to right the ship. Over time it gets better and you will overcome it, but resistance definitely does come forth in sometimes terrifying ways in the process of becoming aligned with the Godly true reality rather than the corrupted world of fear and death that consensus reality participates in. Lots of potential for hiccups and upset, but if you persist in your understanding of the world, eventually reality will bend and the normies rocks won't hit you.

Morell · Aug 12, 2025

This is complex matter, but not unresolvable.

Magic is about altering reality according to your will, not to live in your own virtual world disconnected from this one. If you deform your mind into paradigm completely, you're not free person, you are brainwashed member of a cult. And you can do that even to yourself alone without any outside help. Of course such limiting doesn't serve the person well, it makes you blind to some stuff you should see, it makes you living in a fake world, we could speak about having a virtual reality.

In such a state of you get "hit" by thing that doesn't fit your paradigm, it can crush your worldview, but it can be liberating.

Problem with paradigms is that none is fully correct, No human has complete understanding of the world and reality. And that is why fully embracing a paradigm given by others is not the best way to go. It does have its uses, humans work better with systems, but along with that you need to keep open mind.

Now for reality, again, no paradigm can perfectly describe reality because it is developed by humans who do not have full understanding of reality. That's a fact. So when you get hit by something outside of your paradigm, you are having hard hit of reality. Ignore it at your own peril. It reveals to you that you either have some wrong information, or that there is more to learn, offering chance to further develop your knowledge and wisdom.

And if your aura, or your ability to alter reality is strong enough, and if you are doing it right, you are unlikely to be hit at all, such normie would simply not throw a rock at all, finding you uninteresting or not even noticing.

To answer you honestly, the real reality is the one you experience, of course some illusions might be included, but reality is not made only by you, but by everyone included. So even if your paradigm would be perfect, the person throwing a rok creates reality of rock flying at you. We are not isolated, nor are we ultimate creators. Others have their influence too.

MALINKI_MITI · Aug 12, 2025

Morell said:
This is complex matter, but not unresolvable.

Magic is about altering reality according to your will, not to live in your own virtual world disconnected from this one. If you deform your mind into paradigm completely, you're not free person, you are brainwashed member of a cult. And you can do that even to yourself alone without any outside help. Of course such limiting doesn't serve the person well, it makes you blind to some stuff you should see, it makes you living in a fake world, we could speak about having a virtual reality.

In such a state of you get "hit" by thing that doesn't fit your paradigm, it can crush your worldview, but it can be liberating.

Problem with paradigms is that none is fully correct, No human has complete understanding of the world and reality. And that is why fully embracing a paradigm given by others is not the best way to go. It does have its uses, humans work better with systems, but along with that you need to keep open mind.

Now for reality, again, no paradigm can perfectly describe reality because it is developed by humans who do not have full understanding of reality. That's a fact. So when you get hit by something outside of your paradigm, you are having hard hit of reality. Ignore it at your own peril. It reveals to you that you either have some wrong information, or that there is more to learn, offering chance to further develop your knowledge and wisdom.

And if your aura, or your ability to alter reality is strong enough, and if you are doing it right, you are unlikely to be hit at all, such normie would simply not throw a rock at all, finding you uninteresting or not even noticing.

To answer you honestly, the real reality is the one you experience, of course some illusions might be included, but reality is not made only by you, but by everyone included. So even if your paradigm would be perfect, the person throwing a rok creates reality of rock flying at you. We are not isolated, nor are we ultimate creators. Others have their influence too.

That’s a fair point about no paradigm being perfect and reality being shared — but it raises a deeper question I can’t shake: what is “shared reality” if not just a massively populated egregore?
If an egregore is basically a consensus-frequency of consciousness, then the only reason we all see “rocks” and “gravity” is because billions of minds keep that pattern consistent. It’s not that a rock is “objectively real” in some external sense — it’s that the physical-world-egregore has so much participation that it feels unquestionable. And consistency tends to be self-sustaining: the pattern persists because it “believes in itself” via those who act as if it’s real.
From that perspective, the magician’s task isn’t to live in a disconnected fantasy, but to ritualize their own frequency until it’s so coherent that others unconsciously start acting as if their reality is the real one. Think of Christ — not as a theological figure, but as a human field so stable and self-consistent that it pulled others into its orbit until their behavior aligned with his symbolic structure.
So if a magician achieves that kind of internal coherence, wouldn’t the “normie with a rock” scenario simply not happen? Either the throw never occurs in their shared space, or the event manifests in a way that doesn’t even register as harm. And if it does register, doesn’t that just show the magician’s field hasn’t fully overridden the consensus egregore yet?
But here’s the rabbit hole: we can never actually know whether any event is “real” in some objective sense. In a dream, we’re completely convinced it’s reality until we wake up — and even then, how do we know we’ve woken into anything more “objective”? If perception is always filtered through interpretation, then there is no fact without an interpreter. The Void — the source of all manifestation — doesn’t contain rocks, people, or physics until a mind assigns those forms.
So is the consensus reality “more real” simply because it has more participants? Or is it just a bigger dream that most of us don’t realize we’re in? And if that’s the case, is the true work of the magician to escape into some ultimate truth, or to deliberately choose the dream they want to live in — and live in it with such coherence that others start dreaming it too?
And if so, where exactly is the line between a rock “actually” hitting you and the dream in which it happens? How can we decide if our occult practice is really working or ot is self hypnosis?

Lemongrass00 · Aug 12, 2025

MALINKI_MITI said:
Fellow occultists, I have a mind-bending puzzle that's been haunting me

So here's the thing - any serious occultist must go through a complete revaluation of all values to build an authentic foundation for their own symbolic system. This is the only way to achieve coherent emanation, that perfect resonance between ida and pingala, positive and negative currents, ultimately reaching the light body through optimally functioning biophotons.

Whether we're working with demonic or angelic intelligences, ritual work is essentially about creating your own center of power - it's all one massive self-convincing process designed to access layers of the psyche that are normally beyond conscious experience.

Here's my question though:

If an occultist develops such a coherent symbolic system that their attention literally doesn't register any foreign stimuli (since our attention is constantly bombarded by sensory input, but we only perceive what fits our reality template), what happens when they get hit by something completely outside their paradigm?

Let's say this occultist gets blindsided - literally hit in the back with a rock thrown by some random normie. Which reality is "real" here? The occultist's reality where this shouldn't be possible, or the normie's reality where they just chucked a rock?

Will the occultist actually experience being hit, or do you think their coherent aura/field is so strong that the normie's interpretation won't even register, and the rock-throwing incident simply won't manifest?

I'm dead serious about this question because the topic is incredibly complex. The best I've found in books are empirical practices, but never the actual mechanism behind how they work.

Would really appreciate anyone who takes the time to focus on this and contribute to unraveling these mysteries.

Yeah the wizard would still get knocked out by a rock.

HoldAll · Aug 12, 2025

MALINKI_MITI said:
Fellow occultists, I have a mind-bending puzzle that's been haunting me

So here's the thing - any serious occultist must go through a complete revaluation of all values to build an authentic foundation for their own symbolic system. This is the only way to achieve coherent emanation, that perfect resonance between ida and pingala, positive and negative currents, ultimately reaching the light body through optimally functioning biophotons.

I don't have to go through ANY revaluation of all values to play here, and anyway, Nietzsche's concept is about ethics, not metaphysics. Solipsism is always a danger in this game of course. It's not a matter of philosophy, it's about the right attitude. Magicians should over time become able to create or at least structure their own reality, not grow even more bewildered by their fantastic speculations to the point of dysfunctionality. What's the point of being an occultist if you end up as an even more helpless leaf in the wind than a 'normie'? Yes, the world is full of puzzles we'll never solve. Yes, the brain is capable of dreaming up the most astounding castles in the air complete with billions Escher-style mazes but what the hell is that good for if it only leaves you more confused?

Speaking of Nietzsche, here's one of his aphoristic puns from "The Joyous Science" for you: "By dint of wanting to get to the bottom of things, one falls into a bottomless well." If a normie hits you in the head with a rock, your head gets hit with a rock, and that's all there is to it, no matter which fantastical notions you may dream up about it. A mystic or hermit in his cave may contemplate the ineffable it passive impotent wonderment but for my part, I'd rather stay with both feet firmly on the ground and only then try to find out what can be accomplished in my or any other worlds in practice.

Faria · Aug 12, 2025

MALINKI_MITI said:
what is “shared reality” if not just a massively populated egregore?

We all share the same reality, but what is not shared are our experiences of it.

MALINKI_MITI said:
If an egregore is basically a consensus-frequency of consciousness

"If."

Can you rephrase this question while holding the underlying conviction that "egregore" is a nonsense term that has nothing whatsoever to do with anything real?

MALINKI_MITI said:
So if a magician achieves that kind of internal coherence, wouldn’t the “normie with a rock” scenario simply not happen? Either the throw never occurs in their shared space, or the event manifests in a way that doesn’t even register as harm. And if it does register, doesn’t that just show the magician’s field hasn’t fully overridden the consensus egregore yet?

Again with the egregore thing. Drop that entire idea from your mental vocabulary and try again.

MALINKI_MITI said:
So is the consensus reality “more real” simply because it has more participants? Or is it just a bigger dream that most of us don’t realize we’re in? And if that’s the case, is the true work of the magician to escape into some ultimate truth, or to deliberately choose the dream they want to live in — and live in it with such coherence that others start dreaming it too?

Or maybe reality is just what exists, and people wishing it were different amounts to nothing.

MALINKI_MITI said:
And if so, where exactly is the line between a rock “actually” hitting you and the dream in which it happens? How can we decide if our occult practice is really working or ot is self hypnosis?

Your ability to have awareness of the rock depends on your nervous system, without which the rock would still exist.

If you can assume that your practice is self-hypnosis, IT PROBABLY IS. Do something radically different and attempt to adopt wildly contradictory ideas to those you currently hold. Destroy all ideas that can be destroyed. If what you are doing is as real as getting hit with a rock, you won't be able to deny it in a reasonable way.

cormundum · Aug 12, 2025

MALINKI_MITI said:
That’s a fair point about no paradigm being perfect and reality being shared — but it raises a deeper question I can’t shake: what is “shared reality” if not just a massively populated egregore?
If an egregore is basically a consensus-frequency of consciousness, then the only reason we all see “rocks” and “gravity” is because billions of minds keep that pattern consistent. It’s not that a rock is “objectively real” in some external sense — it’s that the physical-world-egregore has so much participation that it feels unquestionable. And consistency tends to be self-sustaining: the pattern persists because it “believes in itself” via those who act as if it’s real.
From that perspective, the magician’s task isn’t to live in a disconnected fantasy, but to ritualize their own frequency until it’s so coherent that others unconsciously start acting as if their reality is the real one. Think of Christ — not as a theological figure, but as a human field so stable and self-consistent that it pulled others into its orbit until their behavior aligned with his symbolic structure.
So if a magician achieves that kind of internal coherence, wouldn’t the “normie with a rock” scenario simply not happen? Either the throw never occurs in their shared space, or the event manifests in a way that doesn’t even register as harm. And if it does register, doesn’t that just show the magician’s field hasn’t fully overridden the consensus egregore yet?
But here’s the rabbit hole: we can never actually know whether any event is “real” in some objective sense. In a dream, we’re completely convinced it’s reality until we wake up — and even then, how do we know we’ve woken into anything more “objective”? If perception is always filtered through interpretation, then there is no fact without an interpreter. The Void — the source of all manifestation — doesn’t contain rocks, people, or physics until a mind assigns those forms.
So is the consensus reality “more real” simply because it has more participants? Or is it just a bigger dream that most of us don’t realize we’re in? And if that’s the case, is the true work of the magician to escape into some ultimate truth, or to deliberately choose the dream they want to live in — and live in it with such coherence that others start dreaming it too?
And if so, where exactly is the line between a rock “actually” hitting you and the dream in which it happens? How can we decide if our occult practice is really working or ot is self hypnosis?

Put it all to the test. Theorizing about it all day doesn't do anything. Try to see where your thoughts take you and how they come to manifestation in your life and see what happens. Look at the people around you who seem to always have bad things going on for them, or those who are somehow even remotely successful despite any of their own efforts, or the unattractive broke guy who manages to pull hot girls all the time and try to get to the root of why each type of person lives the way they do. What you'll come to find is that they have a certain will-power, self-concept, and weltanschaaung that gets them where they are. We all do and the real goal of magick and all this stuff should be to correct all those things and bring them into alignment with God rather than the corruption of the world. Figure out what you want, and make that happen. Don't waste your time worrying about rocks and Pinks.

IllusiveOwl · Aug 13, 2025

MALINKI_MITI said:
I'm dead serious about this question because the topic is incredibly complex.

This question seems pretty cut and dry to me, the problem is a confusion between delusional certainty with actual power. You want to know if you can be self-important enough to deflect rocks from hitting you, or even prevent the reality of people committing violence against you, by believing in reality a certain way hard enough. Madness.

Magic and symbolism is not about creating "A reality temple" separate from reality, that's just a very artful form of intentional insanity. Symbolism is used to explain very complex things that words cannot, and Magic is about shaping reality to your will. The important thing here is that both conform with reality, they do not ever diverge from it because then it's just useless fantasy.

The point of esotericism is to understand reality, to see its currents, understand it's laws, feel it in ways intuitively that the average undeveloped person cannot. By understanding reality, you are able to move with it in ways that benefit you tremendously, and by understanding the control you have over yourself, you can improve, stabilize, and change yourself in ways that also maximize potential reward. Actual Workings involve shaping reality with the same control you can shape yourself with, but judging from your question, you have got a long long long way to go before you become self aware enough to turn around, hold your hand out, and stop a rock mid air by saying "No." First you need to get control over yourself before you can even begin controlling your external environment, that's common knowledge even in the mainstream.

In truth, if your esoteric training has been going correctly, you would be able to hear the person approaching from behind you, hear them pick up the rock, feel their aggression, and turn around to catch the rock in time before it hits you with effortless and perfect hand-eye-coordination. Your "reality bubble" shouldn't be a delusion, it should be the entirety of reality itself.

aviaf · 2025-08-31T04:31:07+0100

You’re really asking about the tension between two layers of reality.

On the subjective side, your symbolic system acts as a filter. It determines what you notice, how you frame it, and which doors in perception open. That’s the “reality bubble”—when it’s coherent, synchronicities cluster, gnosis sharpens, and hostile noise gets filtered out.

But on the shared side, rocks still obey inertia. A strong current can bend the odds upstream—the throw never happens, the aim is off, your body shifts at just the right second. It can soften things downstream—muted pain, quickened healing, meaning extracted from the event. But once granite is flying, physics keeps the final vote.

So which reality is real? Both. Your bubble edits perception and probability, but the consensus scaffold enforces hard constraints. Magick bends the road before the rock is ever thrown—it doesn’t delete momentum mid-flight.

FireBorn · 2025-08-31T17:35:34+0100

I love the theoretical reach of your question, it opens up some deep corridors about resonance, paradigm coherence, and symbolic architecture. That said, for me, the practical ceiling here is the immutability of the Hermetic Principles.

Specifically: The Principle of Cause and Effect doesn’t give a damn about your symbolic system.
If someone throws a rock at your head, it’s not going to bounce off because your paradigm doesn’t include rock-throwers. It’s going to rock your shit, and that’s not a failure of your magick. That’s physical consequence acting within a shared field of material law.

Even if your aura is coherent, even if your psyche filters out incompatible input, Hermetic Law underpins the simulation. You don’t get to bypass Cause and Effect just because your system’s elegant. Same with gravity, it doesn’t care what you believe.

Magick can bend perception. It can alter probability. It can tilt the field. But it doesn’t make you immune to random normies with rocks (Those bastards!).

Still, I love where your mind is trying to go with this. This is just my take on it, YMMV.

[Help] If an occultist's reality bubble is strong enough, can external physical events from "lower" consciousness levels even affect them?

MALINKI_MITI

Visitor

cormundum

Neophyte

Morell

Acolyte

MALINKI_MITI

Visitor

Lemongrass00

Disciple

HoldAll

Librarian

Faria

Zealot

cormundum

Neophyte

IllusiveOwl

Disciple

aviaf

Neophyte

FireBorn

Apprentice