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Did Trump deserve to get shot?

Accipeveldare

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As most people probably know now, someone attempted to assassinate Trump recently. In which he was grazed on the ear and the shooter was killed along with a few people in the audience that got hit instead of the initial target. I am currently neutral in all of this as I don't usually vote, nor participate in politics but this year is quite interesting and tense. Did he deserve to die? Or was it unnecessary?
 

Robert Ramsay

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I don't care what happens to him as long as he never becomes President again. The man is completely unhinged by this point.
 

pixel_fortune

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It's not about what Trump deserves, or doesn't deserve. That's heaven/hell thinking - like it's about punishments or rewards for his behaviour.

It matters whether his death would prevent a great harm to people, cause more harm, or have no effect. Like however harmful you believed the Prime Minister of Australia is (just as an example), killing him would have very little effect, because the Deputy - who has similar values - would become PM immediately. In a case where a whole system is built around a single personality, it seems like the death would have more effect. But it's hard to predict. I assume it would also trigger riots and violence and stuff.

If you mean in the sense of, "is America fucked if Trump becomes president", like, yeah, probably, although it's already not doing so hot.
 

Pyrokar

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He aight with the clan. Easily the most gangsta player they have

now the full facts of the events are ofc who knows maybe he directed them maybe it's real

it's different when they get merc'd because it leaves to wonder what woulda/coulda/shoulda had done or said
as opposed to losing.

kinda like an omen of the times. Real Kali yuga ninjutsu
 

Iaso

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We as humans need to quit looking towards violence as a way to resolve problems or fears. He is a mere human good bad he is both but he does not deserve to die by violence. If someone does succussed all they will have done is created another martyr. We as a the human race need to be and do better.
 

SkullTraill

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As most people probably know now, someone attempted to assassinate Trump recently. In which he was grazed on the ear and the shooter was killed along with a few people in the audience that got hit instead of the initial target. I am currently neutral in all of this as I don't usually vote, nor participate in politics but this year is quite interesting and tense. Did he deserve to die? Or was it unnecessary?
Obviously from a moral political perspective, if you are a democrat (in the sense of believing in and wanting democracy) - or actually unless you’re someone who literally prefers an imperial authority or dictatorship where succession is determined by force - the answer here is ”no”.

I don’t support (in fact I hate) drunken-ass, racial-chameleon-ass, complete puppet of a candidate IE Kamala Harris, but I would NEVER ever wish for her death, or say that she deserves to die. I might be slightly amused and glad if she did, but I would definitely not accept it as a good thing overall, as it would be a failure of democracy. And I’m not even someone who really believes in democracy. I do recognize, however that it is the current system, and the system that most people say they want (until I see people like below)

You all can say I don’t have a dog in this fight as I don’t live in the US, but the US elections often affect some smaller countries more than the actual elections of those countries, and SOMETIMES in ways that are more severe than would affect people actually living in the US.

I don't care what happens to him as long as he never becomes President again. The man is completely unhinged by this point.
By saying this, or even thinking it, you’ve become someone why does not deserve democracy in any capacity. Obviously I don’t support some Psycho Pass style AI thought police to prevent you from ever voting or anything like that, but from a philosophical perspective you can’t ever demand or expect democracy as an individual ever again if you at any point held the position of “I wish my opponent in democracy would be killed because I don’t agree with his views“.

It’s truly tragic to see how much brainwashing has affected otherwise decent, intelligent people to the point that they would blindly axe one of the core pillars of their hemisphere’s culture and progress.

I hope you wake up to see that this type of moral inconsistency can only be formed within you by decades of external influence and meddling with your psychology.

It's not about what Trump deserves, or doesn't deserve. That's heaven/hell thinking - like it's about punishments or rewards for his behaviour.
I mean you didn’t create this thread so it’s not really up to you to say what it is or isn’t about. It is literally in the title and OP. You don’t need this mansplanation-tier condescension to be able to say what you really wanted to say.

It matters whether his death would prevent a great harm to people, cause more harm, or have no effect. Like however harmful you believed the Prime Minister of Australia is (just as an example), killing him would have very little effect, because the Deputy - who has similar values - would become PM immediately. In a case where a whole system is built around a single personality, it seems like the death would have more effect. But it's hard to predict. I assume it would also trigger riots and violence and stuff.

If you mean in the sense of, "is America fucked if Trump becomes president", like, yeah, probably, although it's already not doing so hot.
A much more reasonable take than @Robert Ramsay had above. Sure, this makes sense when comparing a candidate to a sitting president. At the end of the day, the US also has VPs. But I digress, if you believe in and want democracy, you can’t let your personal view of the harmfulness of a candidate take away from the principle that the country deserves who most of the people say should be president.

It’s always so funny to see how democracy breaks down for people when there’s an opponent they hate enough. From both sides of the political spectrum. Y’all really are not as democratic, tolerant, intellectual as you think… are you?
 

Robert Ramsay

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By saying this, or even thinking it, you’ve become someone who does not deserve democracy in any capacity. Obviously I don’t support some Psycho Pass style AI thought police to prevent you from ever voting or anything like that, but from a philosophical perspective you can’t ever demand or expect democracy as an individual ever again if you at any point held the position of “I wish my opponent in democracy would be killed because I don’t agree with his views“.

It’s truly tragic to see how much brainwashing has affected otherwise decent, intelligent people to the point that they would blindly axe one of the core pillars of their hemisphere’s culture and progress.

I hope you wake up to see that this type of moral inconsistency can only be formed within you by decades of external influence and meddling with your psychology.
I didn't say I wanted him killed, I said I didn't care what happened to him, and frankly, if you want to talk about democracy, Trump is a man who said in a public speech "If you vote for me you won't ever have to vote again", which seems to me to have only one interpretation. It's all very well to whiffle on about democracy when one of your choices explictly wants to remove it from you.

For me, this is not a question of "disagreeing with his views", this is that even Simple Simon (that's me, btw) can tell a good egg from a bad one. I find the prospect of Trump becoming President again terrifying. And I don't even have a vote to vote against him.

I don't hate him. As a person, I feel kinda sorry that he turned out this way, narcissism spraying pain and misery everywhere he goes in his life. As a US President, he terrifies me.
Post automatically merged:

So to clarify the on topic point - no, Trump did not and does not deserve to get shot. No-one deserves to get shot. The rest of this post really belongs in the other thread.
 
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SkullTraill

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I said I didn't care what happened to him, and frankly, if you want to talk about democracy, Trump is a man who said in a public speech "If you vote for me you won't ever have to vote again", which seems to me to have only one interpretation. It's all very well to whiffle on about democracy when one of your choices explictly wants to remove it from you.
What I'm saying is you should care. Not because you agree with him, but because despite hating him, you respect the democratic process. It's quite obvious that "you'll never have to vote for me again" isn't a credible threat of tyranny, because in developed countries like the US, it's not in the realm of possibilities that a president can cease holding elections and institute a dictatorship. It's naive to fear that. In fact, it was probably not even the intent behind the statement. As foolish as it was to word it that way, it's more likely that he meant "you won't have to vote for me again". But even if not, it's still not a credible threat. Even if it was a credible threat, that doesn't mean it's justifiable to sacrifice the sanctity of democracy. Remember that if the majority vote for a tyranny, then they should get a tyranny (being purely democratic).

Of course, no one is truly that selfless and democratic. That's why democracy (at least in it's pure form) is rarely ever the best choice for large systems.

That being said, it's unsavoury to say things like "I don't care if one of the candidates in my democratic system dies as long as it means they won't win". If you think "won't ever have to vote again" has only one meaning, then what you said earlier could also be said to have one interpretation. Don't be disingenuous.

For me, this is not a question of "disagreeing with his views", this is that even Simple Simon (that's me, btw) can tell a good egg from a bad one. I find the prospect of Trump becoming President again terrifying. And I don't even have a vote to vote against him.
If it is so simple, then trust in the democratic process. Trust in your peers to vote correctly. In a fair election where all candidates are alive and not at risk of being assassinated.

I don't hate him. As a person, I feel kinda sorry that he turned out this way, narcissism spraying pain and misery everywhere he goes in his life. As a US President, he terrifies me.
That's just like... your opinion... man... Plenty of people see him as a great president, and many may be terrified by Kamala.

No-one deserves to get shot.
Some people do deserve to get shot. Just not a democratic candidate right before the election.
 
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IllusiveOwl

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A person with the amount of money he has probably does, forget about politics, eat the rich amiright? 🤑🤣🤣🤣💀
 

Xingtian

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It would not be a great loss and people really need to stop clutching pearls whenever some obnoxious oligarch is endangered. The idea that this is a "democracy" and that attacks on its figureheads constitute some kind of sacrilege strikes me as farcical.

I believe society is in need of drastic and profound change but, on a strategic, not moral, basis, I think political violence should be avoided whenever possible. And I don't see how the removal of one individual, however loathsome, would improve things at this juncture.
 

Galahad

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Trump is a man who said in a public speech "If you vote for me you won't ever have to vote again", which seems to me to have only one interpretation.
I don't mean this in a derogatory way, we all have unchecked paradigms to one extent or another, but it's interesting that an intelligent, well-educated man such as you, Robert, would be in such an obvious one.

When Trump made that comment
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who have not been turning out to vote in the same numbers as previous years. What he was saying was "get out and vote this time guys and we'll get this country in such shape you can sit next season out". Typical Trump hyperbole. He wasn't saying "If I get in, this is the last election". Trump does this kind of thing all the time where he talks in ways that one group of (usually working class) people innately understand but which an excited, hyper-word-focused elite (who've had the benefit of most Presidents being exceptionally careful with language) mis-read. It essentially amounts to two groups hearing two different speeches. Unless, secretly, Trump has a linguistic IQ of about 250 and has mastered the double-meaning to such an extent that it would do Shakespeare proud, this is not deliberate. Bear in mind that the media makes a fortune out of each new instalment of the Trump Show and there's a financial interest too in mis-hearing him.

This isn't to say that I approve of El Trumpo. Nor Harris. Both candidates can be jaw-droppingly stupid. Both are rampant egomaniacs. Both are careerists. Both serve interest groups ("old money" in the case of Trump, "new money"/technocrats in the case of Harris). I don't begrudge Americans their choice this November. If I had to choose, maybe Trump's social antinomianism speaks to a spark of individuality more than the wholly prepackaged Rainbow Capitalist "personality" of Harris but I'd rather not either. I find both the VPs far more interesting and I think both are much, much savvier than the top of their tickets.
 
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