Discussion: Religion, Magic and Spirituality as search for ones life path

[Sigma]

So I was wondering since there are, so many religious practices in the world outside of the dominant judeo-christian and arabic designations, we have many native and "pagan" religions, similarly we have many traditions in magic Kabbala, Wicca, Chaos, the fun cermonial practices and simpler non flashy rituals with sigils and candles. The varied practices of rituals, incantations, evocations, prayer, meditations, mindfulness as well as there associated philosophies.

What are your views on the fundamental definitions - magical practice: what does it do how does ot works, for you, what is spirituality for you? How would you describe the idea of divine and what role it plays for your belives?

And finally what kind of spiritual belives philosophy and practices would you reccomend for someone thats looking for their own path but haven't found yet that one thing that fully clicks as they say, in a sense of spiritual and magical exploration what are practices worth trying, generally?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I believe ( ) that magic requires a belief system to function, but it does not matter what that belief system is. Also, that almost all religions divide into two parts; a moral code, and the implementation of magic. As for the divine, I normally quote the Thomas Theorem: "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences." Since this also includes magic, some of the consequences can be paranormal, and this is normally attributed to God or whatever. Because of this, I see God as something that is real, but does not exist; like money.

I believe that the implementation of magic usually follows a pattern (which is not always followed in religion):

1) Decide on intent (whether material or spiritual)
2) Find some way to represent this intent
3) Programme this representation into yourself
4) Try and forget all about it

As for what I would recommend, I would say, find a system that meshes with your own existing beliefs, because, as I see it, the only requirement of a belief system is that you believe it.

 

[HoldAll]

And finally what kind of spiritual belives philosophy and practices would you reccomend for someone thats looking for their own path but haven't found yet that one thing that fully clicks as they say, in a sense of spiritual and magical exploration what are practices worth trying, generally?

If you grew up in an environment where theistic religions hold sway, I would definitely recommend Buddhism as an antidote - no god to fear, no immortal soul to lose, no saviour but yourself. It's a whole new perspective, a paradigm shift of the first order. However, you should definitely keep up a steady meditation practice if you want to understand what all those books are really about, took me decades to realize that.

 

[theil]

What are your views on the fundamental definitions - magical practice: what does it do how does ot works, for you, what is spirituality for you? How would you describe the idea of divine and what role it plays for your belives?

And finally what kind of spiritual belives philosophy and practices would you reccomend for someone thats looking for their own path but haven't found yet that one thing that fully clicks as they say, in a sense of spiritual and magical exploration what are practices worth trying, generally?

Magick for me is an ache, a desire felt inside to reach out to touch something that's known but ultimately unknown until out of darkness something returns or returned.

Divine infuses everything above and below (white cube/black cube. That's my belief and the role it plays for me.

I agree with another commenter, Buddhism is a good place to start.

 

[Romolo]

The divine connects the heart and the mind. You can try to practice magic without devotion, but ever since I’ve “surrendered”, I finally see results. I changed. Like Gurdjieff says: ”If you do not have faith, act as if you do.”

I am an aphant (no third eye, no visualizations, only inner monologue), so I don’t meditate. At most I close my eyes for a few seconds. All my magic happens through ritual, outside of me, either on my altar or around me in the woods, through walk, movement, song, poetry. I write down my spells or make them visible in the landscape. Magical objects are crucial. They are Spirit pulled into Matter.

I would not recommend Buddhism (too mental) but Antiquity as a starting point. Ursula Le Guin’s novel “Lavinia” and Susanne Clarke’s “Piranesi” are excellent guides.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

Based on my understanding, magic is the use of subjective ideas to motivate and direct the objective will (because the will is naturally lazy and needs some kind of carrot to move) then use the will to direct either physical action or non-physical energies. Religion and belief-systems act as catalysts (carrots) to achieve very certain types of motivations for the will and can be interchangeable depending on the situation or needs of the practitioner. With a motivated Will, the practitioner may then alter themselves past the limits of what was once thought possible.

I whole-heartedly recommend an education in Buddhism for the simple reason that it's dogma is the rejection of dogma, with the goal of freeing oneself from the chains of belief; to believe in something inherently takes one away from Truth, because Truth exists objectively outside of belief and is disturbed when the mind is active and tries to make any kind of description of what is: it does not matter how many words you try to use to describe a tree, you will never match the real thing. There was a Carthusian Monk who claimed in his book "The Wound of Love" that the only way to know God was to become an Ashiest, because any idea of God cannot BE God, yet this God exists beyond conception. This puts us humans in a precarious position because this would make every religion wrong, yet also correct, different, yet all the same. How wonderfully paradoxical!

In a state where there is nothing to believe in, yet inexplicable mysterious chaos in every direction - including your very being - faith becomes a cup to pour yourself into just for the sake of functioning. I see Magic as consciously changing your cup to alter your shape and achieve certain results, to use your Willpower to go beyond the limits of what you believe yourself to be.

(DISCLAIMER: I am still very new to the Occult and Magic, so take my views with a pinch of salt, they may be inaccurate or change. I have only been seriously studying for about two years and have had only one genuine experience with something "otherworldly".)

 

[Xenophon]

Based on my understanding, magic is the use of subjective ideas to motivate and direct the objective will (because the will is naturally lazy and needs some kind of carrot to move) then use the will to direct either physical action or non-physical energies. Religion and belief-systems act as catalysts (carrots) to achieve very certain types of motivations for the will and can be interchangeable depending on the situation or needs of the practitioner. With a motivated Will, the practitioner may then alter themselves past the limits of what was once thought possible.

I whole-heartedly recommend an education in Buddhism for the simple reason that it's dogma is the rejection of dogma, with the goal of freeing oneself from the chains of belief; to believe in something inherently takes one away from Truth, because Truth exists objectively outside of belief and is disturbed when the mind is active and tries to make any kind of description of what is: it does not matter how many words you try to use to describe a tree, you will never match the real thing. There was a Carthusian Monk who claimed in his book "The Wound of Love" that the only way to know God was to become an Ashiest, because any idea of God cannot BE God, yet this God exists beyond conception. This puts us humans in a precarious position because this would make every religion wrong, yet also correct, different, yet all the same. How wonderfully paradoxical!

In a state where there is nothing to believe in, yet inexplicable mysterious chaos in every direction - including your very being - faith becomes a cup to pour yourself into just for the sake of functioning. I see Magic as consciously changing your cup to alter your shape and achieve certain results, to use your Willpower to go beyond the limits of what you believe yourself to be.

(DISCLAIMER: I am still very new to the Occult and Magic, so take my views with a pinch of salt, they may be inaccurate or change. I have only been seriously studying for about two years and have had only one genuine experience with something "otherworldly".)

Interesting post. Julius Evola echoes some of your point about Buddhism as a useful tool. He used it to get through a crisis in his 20's. (See his,The Doctrine of Awakening.) The Carthusian you mention has a point similar to Meister Eckhart who got in trouble for teaching "God is Nothing." The Meister had a habit of phrasing defensible points in ways that would p.o. the authorities .

 

[NightWatchman95]

Based on my understanding, magic is the use of subjective ideas to motivate and direct the objective will (because the will is naturally lazy and needs some kind of carrot to move) then use the will to direct either physical action or non-physical energies. Religion and belief-systems act as catalysts (carrots) to achieve very certain types of motivations for the will and can be interchangeable depending on the situation or needs of the practitioner. With a motivated Will, the practitioner may then alter themselves past the limits of what was once thought possible.

I whole-heartedly recommend an education in Buddhism for the simple reason that it's dogma is the rejection of dogma, with the goal of freeing oneself from the chains of belief; to believe in something inherently takes one away from Truth, because Truth exists objectively outside of belief and is disturbed when the mind is active and tries to make any kind of description of what is: it does not matter how many words you try to use to describe a tree, you will never match the real thing. There was a Carthusian Monk who claimed in his book "The Wound of Love" that the only way to know God was to become an Ashiest, because any idea of God cannot BE God, yet this God exists beyond conception. This puts us humans in a precarious position because this would make every religion wrong, yet also correct, different, yet all the same. How wonderfully paradoxical!

In a state where there is nothing to believe in, yet inexplicable mysterious chaos in every direction - including your very being - faith becomes a cup to pour yourself into just for the sake of functioning. I see Magic as consciously changing your cup to alter your shape and achieve certain results, to use your Willpower to go beyond the limits of what you believe yourself to be.

(DISCLAIMER: I am still very new to the Occult and Magic, so take my views with a pinch of salt, they may be inaccurate or change. I have only been seriously studying for about two years and have had only one genuine experience with something "otherworldly".)

and when faith fails and fucked up shit keeps happening, your left feeling worse then before and wondering if this is all a waste of time.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

and when faith fails and fucked up shit keeps happening, your left feeling worse then before and wondering if this is all a waste of time.

No. As adults, we accept the chaos & impermanence of life, and sail through it with power, determination, and faith in ourselves. Faith is a bad word, it's been turned into a carrot to guide the weak. If this topic interests you, read "Answer to Job" by Carl Jung, if reddit & youtube hasn't fried your attentionspan and you can still read a full book.

Reality is an infinite ocean of chaotic will, if you falter just because things aren't going your way, that is a personal fault of yours, not with my ideas. Don't project your weakness and lack of grit then use that as an argument, it almost isn't worth responding to.

 

[NightWatchman95]

No. As adults, we accept the chaos & impermanence of life, and sail through it with power, determination, and faith in ourselves. Faith is a bad word, it's been turned into a carrot to guide the weak. If this topic interests you, read "Answer to Job" by Carl Jung, if reddit & youtube hasn't fried your attentionspan and you can still read a full book.

Reality is an infinite ocean of chaotic will, if you falter just because things aren't going your way, that is a personal fault of yours, not with my ideas. Don't project your weakness and lack of grit then use that as an argument, it almost isn't worth responding to.

yeah, you think youre soooo above the human condition rather than knee deep in the shit like the rest of us.... the arrogance is a dead give away you dont know what you are saying.

Post automatically merged: Mar 5, 2025

in other words, check your ego at the door and face truth dead on if you really care about being a genuine occultist.

 

[PinealisGlandia]

yeah, you think youre soooo above the human condition rather than knee deep in the shit like the rest of us.... the arrogance is a dead give away you dont know what you are saying.

Post automatically merged: Mar 5, 2025

in other words, check your ego at the door and face truth dead on if you really care about being a genuine occultist.

As an authority on genuine occultism, could you grace us with some description of your own practices?

 

[NightWatchman95]

As an authority on genuine occultism, could you grace us with some description of your own practices?

i take a very high bar approach to my practice, if i dont see incredible results, i look for a different approach until i do. knowledge is power, not empty ritual.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

my practice

And this is...? Please, enlighten me so I may become a true occultist one day

 

[NightWatchman95]

And this is...? Please, enlighten me so I may become a true occultist one day

know thyself brother. thats all it takes. once you are open and honest about who you are, you can grab the world by its balls.

 

[PinealisGlandia]

know thyself brother. thats all it takes. once you are open and honest about who you are, you can grab the world by its balls.

You're going to have to go into more detail to convince me that's a practice of yours and not a platitude.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

know thyself brother. thats all it takes. once you are open and honest about who you are, you can grab the world by its balls.

You're going to have to go into more detail to convince me that's a practice of yours and not a platitude.

That is just him squirming out of admitting he has no practice. No need to pressure him any further, its embarrassing for him and the forum. You're wasting your time and energy on the dead.

 

[Vandheer]

That is just him squirming out of admitting he has no practice. No need to pressure him any further, its embarrassing for him and the forum. You're wasting your time and energy on the dead.

Yeah wasn't he just saying all of this was LARP

 

[NightWatchman95]

gnosis is my practice.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

gnosis

That's like saying eating is your diet.

Post automatically merged: Mar 9, 2025

You simply don't have the creativity, grit, discipline, or courage for any actual kind of practice. You don't have the strength of character for the Left Hand Path or the depth for reverence & awe that it takes for the Rhp. Truly, you should go back to Reddit.

 

[Yazata]

Okay let's stop. @NightWatchman95 has been warned and I think the conversation can go beyond a personal vendetta between the two of you from now on.