Goetic Spirits and direction

[William66]

Salam alaikum

For people who have or do evocation, do you consider the direction of the spirit when evoking?

Let’s say a spirit is from West or South West and you are facing East, would that effect your operation in a negative way since you are not facing the right direction? As of negative way i mean in no results.

Many know the importance of the planetary day/hour for evoking, is it the same weight as direction?

I know that some spirits comes from a certain direction, but what about the goetic spirits? Can they come from East yet they are West/SW?

I did not think of this when i did my evocations and i had success, but ofcourse i want to improve.
Thoughts on this matter?

Thanks for your time and answer

 

[Yazata]

What I did for a while was look at where the Zodiac sign was at the moment of calling.
Example: Bael is (said to) correspond with the first degrees of Aries, this sign currently is the North, so I would then turn to the North etc.

 

[MorganBlack]

I use them when they are available, mostly to mindful of the big patterns of what I tend to think of as 'The Archetypal Magician's Ritual', and sync up with our "current" (as I think of it) more, and as we discover more of it

In the Grimorium Verum - my main grim for over 25 years - is structured a bit mythically differently than the Keys, and the directions are not used so much. Aside from the Four Kings, who are also additions from syncing with the rest of Goetia.

I have had them show up from different directions, but I am also not super heavy handed on that front. But I think they are worth considering. JSK tried to map the GV hierarchy with the other infernal grims and made some notes about directions.

 

[FireBorn]

I once had Vepar tell me I was facing the wrong direction, didn’t follow the proper timing, wasn’t wearing the "appropriate" thread-count robes, my candles weren’t expensive enough, and apparently my dog needed a bath.

Of course, I’m joking. But here’s the thing: If we start worrying that direction is the make or break for evocation, where does that line of thinking end? What about the thread count of your robes? Or your house, do you think it’s clean enough to host a Duke or a King?

For me, direction just hasn’t been a concern. My success rate with evocations and invocations is extremely high, and none of that had to do with facing the “right” way. The truth is, the direction doesn’t matter to the spirit as much as it matters to you, the practitioner. It’s about how much weight you put into it.

If facing a particular direction helps you feel more in tune, or authentic, with the ritual, then by all means, face East or whatever your grimoire suggests. If it adds a certain energy or oomph to the work, then that’s your answer. But at the end of the day, it’s about what resonates with you.

Now, if a spirit explicitly tells you to face a certain way, that’s different, and you should follow their guidance, even if it goes against the traditional "rules" of your texts. Hope that helps a little.

 

[William66]

I once had Vepar tell me I was facing the wrong direction, didn’t follow the proper timing, wasn’t wearing the "appropriate" thread-count robes, my candles weren’t expensive enough, and apparently my dog needed a bath.

Of course, I’m joking. But here’s the thing: If we start worrying that direction is the make or break for evocation, where does that line of thinking end? What about the thread count of your robes? Or your house, do you think it’s clean enough to host a Duke or a King?

For me, direction just hasn’t been a concern. My success rate with evocations and invocations is extremely high, and none of that had to do with facing the “right” way. The truth is, the direction doesn’t matter to the spirit as much as it matters to you, the practitioner. It’s about how much weight you put into it.

If facing a particular direction helps you feel more in tune, or authentic, with the ritual, then by all means, face East or whatever your grimoire suggests. If it adds a certain energy or oomph to the work, then that’s your answer. But at the end of the day, it’s about what resonates with you.

Now, if a spirit explicitly tells you to face a certain way, that’s different, and you should follow their guidance, even if it goes against the traditional "rules" of your texts. Hope that helps a little.

Thanks for your answer.

Yes it can add tune, oomph to the work, but it will also make the spirit aware that you are aware of the direction if that makes sense?

Post automatically merged: Nov 1, 2025

What I did for a while was look at where the Zodiac sign was at the moment of calling.
Example: Bael is (said to) correspond with the first degrees of Aries, this sign currently is the North, so I would then turn to the North etc.

Ahh i see, intresting, what i do, i look at the spirits king, and i go from there, but when working in a limited space, it can be tricky.

Post automatically merged: Nov 1, 2025

I use them when they are available, mostly to mindful of the big patterns of what I tend to think of as 'The Archetypal Magician's Ritual', and sync up with our "current" (as I think of it) more, and as we discover more of it

In the Grimorium Verum - my main grim for over 25 years - is structured a bit mythically differently than the Keys, and the directions are not used so much. Aside from the Four Kings, who are also additions from syncing with the rest of Goetia.

I have had them show up from different directions, but I am also not super heavy handed on that front. But I think they are worth considering. JSK tried to map the GV hierarchy with the other infernal grims and made some notes about directions.

Thanks for your answer, yes i do think it is worth considering the direction.

May i ask what do you think about the Heptameron? Since you have GV as main grim for 25+ years?

What is your take on the names given in the Elucidation of necromancy such as names of seasons, angels, hour, heaven etc… Considering them could also increase a positive result.

Abit off topic NP<3

 

[stalkinghyena]

For people who have or do evocation, do you consider the direction of the spirit when evoking?

Generally, I face one direction for such rituals due to the constraints of space, though I do consider the location in terms of Zodiacal reference, especially the Decans and their magical images. These are actually part of the dialogue of discussion, and the general answer is that "That's my house but its not where I work."

As of negative way i mean in no results.

I view these things in terms of process as opposed to a 1:1 ratio of ask-receive. So things develop and "unwritten rites" appear as to more specific workings, though I consider this still within the bounds of the Solomonic tech. These may actually involve directional considerations of a more immediate moment.

Many know the importance of the planetary day/hour for evoking, is it the same weight as direction?

I used to try to conform to this, but I it led to many delays that seemed pointless. Our clocks are not medieval, and are far more ruthless in terms of their efficient cause of kicking our buts into motion.
I have come to think not so much in terms of timing to charts and tables, but tuning in to frequencies or tones. These can have symbolic values that don't fit well into existing charts of times in a literal surface sense. In the figurative sense, there are levels of interpretation that may present themselves.

I know that some spirits comes from a certain direction, but what about the goetic spirits? Can they come from East yet they are West/SW?

Recently, after reading Trithemius, I have taken an interest in Theurgia Goetia, which is part of the complete Lemegeton. It seems to have had a huge influence on the Steganographia as well as on many other later sources. Apparently, some of the names in the TG also have connection to the GV, relations I think worth exploring in a future project in expanding on knowledge of the 72.

One thing of important note is that in presenting its directional wheel with its names, the TG says some spirits (Kings) are fixed while others are moveable, and that it doesn't matter which way you face. I make no assertions on a snapshot here, but I think its a lead into a deeper mode of working, however one can slice it.

 

[Faria]

For people who have or do evocation, do you consider the direction of the spirit when evoking?

Does not matter. Spirit hails from wherever it wants, and what direction you face will not impact the outcome or whether it answers.

Imagine Solomon in Jerusalem, surrounded by numerous pagan nations. The 72 demons of the Goetia are all the gods of those nations. Spirits of Egypt and Arabia are in the south, those of Britain and France are in the west. The north has Scandinavia and Russia, the east has Babylon, India, and the Orient.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Directional Dynamics in Esoteric Work
Let us discuss the notion that Directional Vectors are dynamically shifting. If the sea lies to your South, its energetic signature there differs fundamentally from the sea lying to the North. You must ascertain your precise orientation on the planetary sphere—where are you situated on Earth, and which cardinal point are you facing? Remember that energies invert as one travels further North or South; the entire geomancy shifts.

The point remains: if you master the Astrological Compass of Determination, and, for instance, the planet Mars is currently aspected in the West, how can you effectively call upon its power from the East? The same principle applies to the Zodiacal Circles.

I maintain that accurately predicting the correct direction transforms your spoken word into a calculated projectile—like an arrow aimed precisely at a predetermined target—ensuring a hit, rather than expending a thousand arrows randomly in all directions.

Is that not the core truth of effective application?

 

[Morell]

That might be difficult to apply at some places, but yeah, if you feel you need connection to local area, it makes good sense.

 

[Magus314]

Salam alaikum

For people who have or do evocation, do you consider the direction of the spirit when evoking?

Let’s say a spirit is from West or South West and you are facing East, would that effect your operation in a negative way since you are not facing the right direction? As of negative way i mean in no results.

Many know the importance of the planetary day/hour for evoking, is it the same weight as direction?

I know that some spirits comes from a certain direction, but what about the goetic spirits? Can they come from East yet they are West/SW?

I did not think of this when i did my evocations and i had success, but ofcourse i want to improve.
Thoughts on this matter?

Thanks for your time and answer

I’ve often considered this and in my practice I do face the intended direction of the spirit, but I don’t know if it actually makes a difference.

a thing to consider is that most of these grimoire were written in Europe referencing spirits from the Middle East so the location could be relative to those locations and may not apply 1-1 to say somebody in Kansas.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

I’ve often considered this and in my practice I do face the intended direction of the spirit, but I don’t know if it actually makes a difference.

a thing to consider is that most of these grimoire were written in Europe referencing spirits from the Middle East so the location could be relative to those locations and may not apply 1-1 to say somebody in Kansas.

Your words accurately describe the matter with the diligence of one who strives. I believe you work extensively with the Spirits of the Seven (Heavens) and the Goetia.

Indeed, I tell you: make your [ritual] directions variable, but know the names of the spirits well.

For your information, there are many variations within the magical schools. For instance, we have a school that states the Four Spirits who serve the Flying Carpet are Damriyāṭ, Ṣanʿīq, Hadlīj, and Shamardiyāl.

And there are those who say that the Four Magical Directions are served by the Spirits of the Steppes (Arwāḥ al-Sabāsib), who are Qamṭam, Māzar, Qaswarah (which means 'Lion'), and Ṭīkal.

These are different from the Four Magical Spirits of the Goetia—Lucifer, Amaymon, Abymon, and Satan?

Here, you must conclude that every system has its own directions and spirits. By knowing the historical context, you can grasp its original logic and see where you stand within it.

 

[Morell]

Here is my two cents.
It seems to me that the elements in directions depend on how you intent to practice. When connecting to the land, I 100% agree with @Angelkesfarl that we should consider the real place itself. Though if I work with whole world mythos, like for example the Norse one, that practically maps Europe as entire world, I would have to stick to the specific directions even if it doesn't fit the place I'm at.

So it depends on what one wishes to get in contact with.

Another note, once you start practicing, it is useful to have the elements on the directions unchanged. Sticking to one system, so that you can become good in that one system. That became my reason to stick with mythological understanding of the world and elements/directions system, that is then true to me anywhere I go.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

Here is my two cents.
It seems to me that the elements in directions depend on how you intent to practice. When connecting to the land, I 100% agree with @Angelkesfarl that we should consider the real place itself. Though if I work with whole world mythos, like for example the Norse one, that practically maps Europe as entire world, I would have to stick to the specific directions even if it doesn't fit the place I'm at.

So it depends on what one wishes to get in contact with.

Another note, once you start practicing, it is useful to have the elements on the directions unchanged. Sticking to one system, so that you can become good in that one system. That became my reason to stick with mythological understanding of the world and elements/directions system, that is then true to me anywhere I go.

"Every time, you convince me that there is a great spirit working behind you, guiding you to all those strong conclusions. Thank you, my friend."

 

[DanieleWraith]

What I am about to share is based solely on my personal experience. When I was younger and still quite inexperienced, I worked with various spirits from the Ars Goetia. With some of them I had clear manifestations, while with others nothing happened at all, not even a sign of movement. For a long time I assumed the problem was mine. Years later I began to distinguish two different situations. In some cases there was no “result” in the strict sense, yet there were clear indications that the operation was active. Practical blockages, lack of manifestation pathways, or external factors that made the outcome impossible would stop the result, but the ritual force was present. In other cases, the work remained completely empty, with no echo or response.


Eventually I realised that the key lay in the directions and internal structure of the spirits. The ones that always responded were precisely those I approached within their proper orientation, even without knowing it. The ones that remained silent were those I was, unknowingly, calling outside their direction or proper framework. In the Ars Goetia not everything is stated explicitly, and much of the information remains implicit in the order, nature, or spiritual function of each entity. I have not worked with all of them, but enough to identify a pattern. Once I began adjusting directions, timings, and the overall context of the evocation, the practice became far more reliable. I always look for an operative logic in magic, something that can be observed, compared, and repeated. That foundation has served me far better than any purely theoretical approach.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

What I am about to share is based solely on my personal experience. When I was younger and still quite inexperienced, I worked with various spirits from the Ars Goetia. With some of them I had clear manifestations, while with others nothing happened at all, not even a sign of movement. For a long time I assumed the problem was mine. Years later I began to distinguish two different situations. In some cases there was no “result” in the strict sense, yet there were clear indications that the operation was active. Practical blockages, lack of manifestation pathways, or external factors that made the outcome impossible would stop the result, but the ritual force was present. In other cases, the work remained completely empty, with no echo or response.


Eventually I realised that the key lay in the directions and internal structure of the spirits. The ones that always responded were precisely those I approached within their proper orientation, even without knowing it. The ones that remained silent were those I was, unknowingly, calling outside their direction or proper framework. In the Ars Goetia not everything is stated explicitly, and much of the information remains implicit in the order, nature, or spiritual function of each entity. I have not worked with all of them, but enough to identify a pattern. Once I began adjusting directions, timings, and the overall context of the evocation, the practice became far more reliable. I always look for an operative logic in magic, something that can be observed, compared, and repeated. That foundation has served me far better than any purely theoretical approach.

I believe your experience is very strong and influential in your practical life. Could you tell us what books you rely on for this system? As a researcher, I strongly desire to know and define the foundations with which I can interact to respond to you or assist you with strong guidance in your path. But it must have a complete foundation. Thank you for your interaction.

 

[DanieleWraith]

I believe your experience is very strong and influential in your practical life. Could you tell us what books you rely on for this system? As a researcher, I strongly desire to know and define the foundations with which I can interact to respond to you or assist you with strong guidance in your path. But it must have a complete foundation. Thank you for your interaction.

I originally started with Crowley’s Goetia, although the copy I accessed back then came from the early internet and the Portuguese translations available at the time were incomplete and unreliable. They only included very general instructions and omitted essential operational elements such as directions, hours, and other structural details that are necessary for consistent results. The translation itself left out entire sections, so it was not a useful working text. Later on I was able to purchase Peterson’s hardcover edition of the Goetia. Not the first printing, since it contains the errata, but certainly the first complete and dependable source I had access to. From that point onward, this became the foundation of my work.

My approach was simply to take the standard Ars Goetia structure and remove the restrictive components, meaning the parts designed to impose rigid constraint or coercion on the spirit. Once those elements were set aside, the operative framework became clearer and more coherent for the way I work. Everything else remained aligned with the traditional structure.
That is the model I used.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

I originally started with Crowley’s Goetia, although the copy I accessed back then came from the early internet and the Portuguese translations available at the time were incomplete and unreliable. They only included very general instructions and omitted essential operational elements such as directions, hours, and other structural details that are necessary for consistent results. The translation itself left out entire sections, so it was not a useful working text. Later on I was able to purchase Peterson’s hardcover edition of the Goetia. Not the first printing, since it contains the errata, but certainly the first complete and dependable source I had access to. From that point onward, this became the foundation of my work.

My approach was simply to take the standard Ars Goetia structure and remove the restrictive components, meaning the parts designed to impose rigid constraint or coercion on the spirit. Once those elements were set aside, the operative framework became clearer and more coherent for the way I work. Everything else remained aligned with the traditional structure.
That is the model I used.

Thank you, my friend. I believe your beginning is truly influential. May I suggest that Goetia within the Left-Hand Path has a profound effect on the formation of your magical abilities? And consequently, have you found the appropriate spirit for you, and were you able to complete your path with it amicably/with complete affection? I believe that working without coercion is merely supplication or calls based on the relationship between the two of you? Thank you, and I would like to advise you to consider the astrological aspect between you and the spirit, for every spirit originating from your astrological sign or suitable to your astronomical (or divinatory/astrological) nature is the closest to manifesting and working with you.