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Good and Evil, JC as truth.

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Opinions on this, as if this were the truth?
Where would fate and destinies lie for those who didn't submit, or did for that matter?

Let's go deep, from source to beyond. Not an invitation for hating on religions, purely academic and philosophical.
 

KjEno186

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JC? Jesus Christ? Firstly, Good and Evil don't exist as absolutes. Binaries, polar opposites, are often equally "evil" in a sense. Take Severity and Mercy. Absolute Severity leaves no room for error and subsequent learning. Absolute Mercy allows absolutely anything to happen without consequence. The "good" is in the middle, a balance, an equilibrium. The Ternary. Perhaps in some respects Jesus Christ represents the balance for those who believe in him. "Blessed are the meek." "Woe to you Scribes, Pharisees! Hypocrites!"

For a magician who wants to follow a Christian tradition, perhaps Saint Cyprian of Antioch would be a better choice as intercessor than JC himself...
 
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Was referring casually to Judaism and Christianity.
Good reply. Will have to think on it.
I wonder moreso, on this topic within confined of the seven Hermetic laws.
 

KjEno186

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BTW, speaking of the Big JC, ever wonder why the practicioners of magic in the NT really burned their books? Could it have been because the magic of JC and his Apostles was better? Did JC and the Apostles know anything about "Hermetic laws?" Didn't JC come to abolish laws?
 

KjEno186

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Didn't JC come to abolish laws?
I should know better than that. He said he came to fulfill the Law. The Law pointed out imperfection. Perfection (Severity) is impossible for humans. JC showed the need for balance with forgiveness (Mercy). The learning process is about examining error in a system and finding ways to deal with it productively. Making sacrifices to atone for error did nothing other than make priesthoods rich and distort the deities called upon to aid the people. By all means, look at laws. They may make sense within a cultural context, but do not mistake the map for the territory. A focus on too many words enables the conscious mind to block the astral/soul/ESP Core/whatever-you-wanna-call-it.
 
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One problem with the JC is his mentioning the Book of Jasher.
The book of Jasher is a fragmented lost book that is identical to Job except for the main character.
In Job. Job is the main character.
In Jasher. Abraham is the main character; there is no Jasher mentioned that I saw ..may have to read both again.
Of course ... It could be error in transliteration.
Another thing .. Moses, Solomon, David, Jesus or Yeshua all spent youth in Egypt.
Could it be Egypt had balance of good and evil in it's construct and uses aspects of god/desses to express itself?
And of the Phonecians or Atlanteans?
 
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I should know better than that. He said he came to fulfill the Law. The Law pointed out imperfection. Perfection (Severity) is impossible for humans. JC showed the need for balance with forgiveness (Mercy). The learning process is about examining error in a system and finding ways to deal with it productively. Making sacrifices to atone for error did nothing other than make priesthoods rich and distort the deities called upon to aid the people. By all means, look at laws. They may make sense within a cultural context, but do not mistake the map for the territory. A focus on too many words enables the conscious mind to block the astral/soul/ESP Core/whatever-you-wanna-call-it.
I see a problem as you mentioned St Cyprian I think. Magic used by the magician.
And the fate or destiny of Magi?
Were the Magi Magicians or 'other'?
If they were magicians, then they still served the divine source of all in that story.
In other pantheons, magicians are abundant, their fate or destiny not tied to magic use, but of the heart.
 

KjEno186

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I see a problem as you mentioned St Cyprian I think. Magic used by the magician.
I mention Cyprian because of the whole balance thing. Jason Miller covers St Cyprian in his book, Consorting with Spirits. If one focuses exclusively on Angels or Daemons, one can become imbalanced, imo. Cyprian works with both. You want results, right? Maybe drop the Anglo way of doing things (the hard way, you know, with that damnable Anglo Work Ethic which says it's gotta hurt before you deserve to earn a dollar), and find an intercessor you can put faith in. Set it and forget it. Make your petitions known and simply know that it's being taken care of.

Your continued conscious maneuvering is only confounding the success you desire. My god, I never thought I'd say this again, but Have Faith! You say you have faith? Your faith shows in your works, the things that you say and do. The horse pulls the cart, not the other way around. Why should the magician drag both horse and cart along with his teeth gritted from the strain? Your faith will be demonstrated by the outcome of the union of your conscious mind and inner timeless soul. This Union only happens when you let go of the idea that you must be in total conscious control all of the time. The horse knows its way home even if the magician is dozing off in the cart.

The Sorcerer's Call to St Cyprian
1 In the name of the great and mighty power of God I invoke the​
sublime influence of St. Cyprian, in Christ Jesus. I ask that​
you be my mentor and my master by virtue of the grace​
bestowed upon you by God omnipotent who was, who is,​
and who will ever be.​
2 You learned to control storms on Mt. Olympus, the casting of​
enchantment and illusion in Argos, the mysteries of the​
Witches' craft at Taurapolis, Necromancy among the​
graves of Sparta, and incantations in Memphis. Finally in​
Antioch, drawn by power, you found grace of Christ.​
3 Oh holy Cyprian, you who equally partakes of the mass and​
the sabbat, bless my efforts to follow you in your path. You​
who commingled with Angels, devils, and earthly spirits,​
grant the power to command the spirits as you did, and as​
Solomon and Manasses did before you.​
4 I thank you lord for the many gifts of nature and grace with​
which you enriched the spiritual treasure house of your​
most faithful servant St Cyprian. I thank you, my protector,​
for the special favors I have received by your powerful​
intercession.​
5 Oh Cyprian holy thaumaturge: saint and Sorcerer, martyr and​
magus, bless me. Take my prayers and spells and make​
them your own. When the lord hears them, he will not​
ignore them, they will cease to be my words, but yours.​
Amen [...]​
In the [fourth] verse we thank God for empowering St Cyprian to​
work on our behalf. Then we thank St Cyprian for past intercession.​
If you have not received anything yet, thank him anyway. It shows​
faith he will pull through. - Consorting with Spirits by Jason Miller, pages 104-105.​

Was referring casually to Judaism and Christianity.
Now, as for Judaism, the real strength there from what I understand is community, being part of the tribe. It's even stronger within certain of the sects. So, are you going to join the tribe? No? What are you wasting time on their holy book for then? Job, Abraham, Moses, Solomon, David... yeah I read the Old Testament, and some parts of it several times back in the day. Familiarity breeds contempt, at least for me. I would have no problem using a Psalm in an evocation/invocation as the need may arise, and I am at times using Hebrew words in ritual. It's all the same with using elements of Hinduism or the magical arts of the Far East. Become a scholar if you wish, but know that it only fills your conscious mind with busy work.
 

KjEno186

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Where would fate and destinies lie for those who didn't submit, or did for that matter?
I seem to have skipped over this part of your original post. :)

The only thing I can think of is this: The smaller the religion, the greater the number of the rest of humanity will be damned in their view. Seems there was a bit of a scandal years ago when it was revealed that the Southern Baptists believed the Methodists were going to hell. Or was it the other way around? I can only conclude that Fate and Destiny know no religion. Any deity demanding worship does not deserve it.
 
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Good and evil are simply put as this.

Intentions create the action as good or evil. It's from the simple of a prospective. I personally think religion is control. Using JC own words. You will not find me within your city walls or your temples but within your heart's. Funny how the church never follows that. Religion aside. It's a person's intention that creates a good or evil response or action. Just my take on things.
 

hungry_ghost

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Opinions on this, as if this were the truth?
Where would fate and destinies lie for those who didn't submit, or did for that matter?

Let's go deep, from source to beyond. Not an invitation for hating on religions, purely academic and philosophical.
Good and evil is subjective.

The answer to your question is pretty simple. According to the Bible nonbelievers will go to hell. It's pretty straight forward on that and it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for discussion.
 

Konsciencia

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Good and Evil does not exist in reality. It is only in this world that we experience fucked up things, but that which you call evil is a blessing in disguise, otherwise the game wouldn't make sense. Like I said before, you have the Reptilians wrecking havoc, but what they are doing is helping us to wake up. They know they cannot go beyond The Universe's orders.
 
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