Lvcifer claimed Jesus was Divine.

[Shade]

there was a bishop named Lvcifer (Lucifer (died c. 370) was a

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of Cagliari, Sardinia, who was a fierce opponent of the heresy of

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<- link to the Britannica)
He wanted anyone in the practice of Arianism to be excommunicate. Arianism was a sect of Christianity that said Jesus was just a man and denied his divinity.
Was the “mistranslation” of Lucifer and Morning Star done on purpose all along?
Seems fishy to me
Your thoughts WF?

Also I was reading over the poem “

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“ and it says something really interesting About the Greeks vs barbarians. It seems as though that Sophia and Nyx may be one and the same.

“Greeks, why do you hate me?
Because I am a barbarian among the barbarians?
I am the wisdom of Greeks and knowledge of barbarians.
I am the judgment of Greeks and barbarians.
My image is great in Egypt, and I have no image among the barbarians.”

Nyx was both revered and respected - with a lot of caution in Greece.

The “image great in Egypt” may have been speaking about Kek - Primordial darknes, its counterpart Kauket was “bringer of light”.

The ancient Egyptian hieroglyph for night depicted the sky with a "was" scepter hanging from it.
Representing primordial darkness and creation. Or
Set - depicting darkness and chaos hanging over
Khnum - creation and fertility, respectively.
Your thoughts WF?

 

[Sabbatius]

The Name Lucifer translates to "Bearer of Light" and/or "Morning Star"
The belief that Lucifer is associated with the Fallen Angel Myth, which came from The Book of Isaiah Chapter 14, came from the Latin Translation by St. Jerome in 404CE. I doubt there was any association with a supposed fallen angelic figure and the Bishop of Cagliari who defended Western Christendom and was associated with St. Athanasius of Alexandria who championed the Eastern Church.

As for the Gnostic text of Thunder: Perfect Mind, I see more of an association with Isis and Sophia than Nyx and Sophia.

 

[Shade]

The Name Lucifer translates to "Bearer of Light" and/or "Morning Star"
The belief that Lucifer is associated with the Fallen Angel Myth, which came from The Book of Isaiah Chapter 14, came from the Latin Translation by St. Jerome in 404CE.

100% There would be no mention of the name “Lucifer“ if it wasn’t for the mistranslation, there would be no “Lucifer” in the Bible. I was wondering if it was done on purpose as a slight against the exiled bishop.

As for the Gnostic text of Thunder: Perfect Mind, I see more of an association with Isis and Sophia than Nyx and Sophia.

Dang you’re right! That is a very solid parallel.

 

[HoldAll]

The Name Lucifer translates to "Bearer of Light" and/or "Morning Star"
The belief that Lucifer is associated with the Fallen Angel Myth, which came from The Book of Isaiah Chapter 14, came from the Latin Translation by St. Jerome in 404CE. I doubt there was any association with a supposed fallen angelic figure and the Bishop of Cagliari who defended Western Christendom and was associated with St. Athanasius of Alexandria who championed the Eastern Church.

As for the Gnostic text of Thunder: Perfect Mind, I see more of an association with Isis and Sophia than Nyx and Sophia.

Exactly. I recommend reading Ch. One of Chris Matthew's "Modern Satanism" where he states on p. 6:

The morning star is the planet Venus, a heavenly body rich in mythological resonance from prehistoric times. While this passage [in the Book of Isaiah] is undoubtedly a depiction of overreaching pride that leads to a fall, the morning star represents Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon, who is named in the same chapter. In Saint Jerome’s fifth-century translation of the Bible from Greek into Latin, the Greek term “heosphorus” (literal meaning: “dawn bringer,” a sobriquet for Venus) is rendered as “Lucifer,” Latin for “light bearer” and an astrological term for the morning star. The term “Lucifer” already had a potent mythological and literary history, having been used by the Latin poets Ovid and Virgil; similarly, “heosphorus” appears in the Greek classics of Homer and Hesiod, as well as being associated with the legend of Prometheus, the stealer of light.

He then goes on saying that Satan only has merely a minor role in the Old Testament and only gains a significantly larger stature in the Old Testament. I like this quote (p. 7):

Just like Ahriman in the Zoroastrian tradition, Satan works as a lightning rod, drawing criticism for evil away from God, when in fact it is God, the supreme being, that allows evil into human existence.

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, in short.

We also have this book on "Thunder" in the Library where the poem is analyzed by a variety of scholars from all sorts of angles if you'd like to take a look at it. The book also discusses at length the mystery of the identity of the speaker who is male in some passages and female in most others. I wouldn't look for coded occult messages in that poem, the author of the book even disputes that it's Gnostic at all.

 

[Sabbatius]

100% There would be no mention of the name “Lucifer“ if it wasn’t for the mistranslation, there would be no “Lucifer” in the Bible. I was wondering if it was done on purpose as a slight against the exiled bishop.

Personally, St. Jerome made such horrible work on his Latin Bible that he created more Biblical Theological Traditions based on his translations alone. An example:

Matthew 3:1, 2
In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"​

One of his alterations was taking the word in Greek- Μετανοεῖτε (metanoeite) "repent" and instead of using the Latin-poenitere which translates to repent, regret - Jerome used paenitentiam agite - to do penance. The mistake turned into a doctrine of Penintential Acts for the remission of sins, which eventually led to the Doctrine of Original Sin, a Roman creation, which was created in the West after the Latin translation became widespread.

I apologize for the rant but this is one of the studies I excelled at in University.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Personally, St. Jerome made such horrible work on his Latin Bible that he created more Biblical Theological Traditions based on his translations alone. An example:

Matthew 3:1, 2
In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"​

One of his alterations was taking the word in Greek- Μετανοεῖτε (metanoeite) "repent" and instead of using the Latin-poenitere which translates to repent, regret - Jerome used paenitentiam agite - to do penance. The mistake turned into a doctrine of Penintential Acts for the remission of sins, which eventually led to the Doctrine of Original Sin, a Roman creation, which was created in the West after the Latin translation became widespread.

I apologize for the rant but this is one of the studies I excelled at in University.

that's fascinating! Perhaps you should start another thread with more biblical mixups

Reminds me of the old joke about the monk copying doctrine from the original source material. The Abbot finds him weeping over his work and asks him why he's crying. Between sobs, the monk tells him: "It says celebrate!"

 

[Asteriskos]

Personally, St. Jerome made such horrible work on his Latin Bible that he created more Biblical Theological Traditions based on his translations alone. An example:

Matthew 3:1, 2
In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"​

One of his alterations was taking the word in Greek- Μετανοεῖτε (metanoeite) "repent" and instead of using the Latin-poenitere which translates to repent, regret - Jerome used paenitentiam agite - to do penance. The mistake turned into a doctrine of Penintential Acts for the remission of sins, which eventually led to the Doctrine of Original Sin, a Roman creation, which was created in the West after the Latin translation became widespread.

I apologize for the rant but this is one of the studies I excelled at in University.

Incredibly interesting and informative, Thanks!

Post automatically merged: Nov 18, 2024

We also have this book on "Thunder" in the Library where the poem is analyzed by a variety of scholars from all sorts of angles if you'd like to take a look at it. The book also discusses at length the mystery of the identity of the speaker who is male in some passages and female in most others. I wouldn't look for coded occult messages in that poem, the author of the book even disputes that it's Gnostic at all.

Thanks for this link!

 

[Shade]

Personally, St. Jerome made such horrible work on his Latin Bible that he created more Biblical Theological Traditions based on his translations alone. An example:

Matthew 3:1, 2
In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"​

One of his alterations was taking the word in Greek- Μετανοεῖτε (metanoeite) "repent" and instead of using the Latin-poenitere which translates to repent, regret - Jerome used paenitentiam agite - to do penance. The mistake turned into a doctrine of Penintential Acts for the remission of sins, which eventually led to the Doctrine of Original Sin, a Roman creation, which was created in the West after the Latin translation became widespread.

Sabbatius
this right here is what I was wanting to see, lol Thank you, I knew who the historical Lvcifer was which is the reason I made the thread but I am unaware of the other things the translator messed up,
I wonder if he did it on purpose under the order of the elites that they could gain more control. IF there is original sin I tend to think it’s because we are programmed to fear and fear keeps us in Judgement of ourselves, of others and it is the basis for negativity, it keeps us from the passive unconditional love we all can possess,

As for penance… that is awefully convenient for the Catholic Church. $$$

 

[Asteriskos]

As for penance… that is awefully convenient for the Catholic Church. $$$

I heard a phrase years ago to the effect that it was: "The Biggest Money Making Machine the World has ever Seen!"
Don't recall Where I heard it though.

 

[Shade]

Exactly. I recommend reading Ch. One of Chris Matthew's "Modern Satanism" where he states on p. 6:

The morning star is the planet Venus, a heavenly body rich in mythological resonance from prehistoric times. While this passage [in the Book of Isaiah] is undoubtedly a depiction of overreaching pride that leads to a fall, the morning star represents Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon, who is named in the same chapter. In Saint Jerome’s fifth-century translation of the Bible from Greek into Latin, the Greek term “heosphorus” (literal meaning: “dawn bringer,” a sobriquet for Venus) is rendered as “Lucifer,” Latin for “light bearer” and an astrological term for the morning star. The term “Lucifer” already had a potent mythological and literary history, having been used by the Latin poets Ovid and Virgil; similarly, “heosphorus” appears in the Greek classics of Homer and Hesiod, as well as being associated with the legend of Prometheus, the stealer of light.

He then goes on saying that Satan only has merely a minor role in the Old Testament and only gains a significantly larger stature in the Old Testament. I like this quote (p. 7):

Just like Ahriman in the Zoroastrian tradition, Satan works as a lightning rod, drawing criticism for evil away from God, when in fact it is God, the supreme being, that allows evil into human existence.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, in short.

We also have this book on "Thunder" in the Library where the poem is analyzed by a variety of scholars from all sorts of angles if you'd like to take a look at it. The book also discusses at length the mystery of the identity of the speaker who is male in some passages and female in most others. I wouldn't look for coded occult messages in that poem, the author of the book even disputes that it's Gnostic at all.

Tyvm for the Link Holdall and yeah I believe it’s Roman’s 14:1-12 that make it very clear it was speaking of the king and kicking him as the Morning Star is said to be Jesusnin revelations. As for Venus being the morning star that makes sense… Jesus,’or the living Christ at any given time is supposed be then personification of Love… which would be Venus in mythos.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2024

I heard a phrase years ago to the effect that it was: "The Biggest Money Making Machine the World has ever Seen!"
Don't recall Where I heard it though.

I’ve heard it said the Roman Empire never collapsed, they just became the Vatican.

 

[Merrick]

there was a bishop named Lvcifer (Lucifer (died c. 370) was a

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

of Cagliari, Sardinia, who was a fierce opponent of the heresy of

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

<- link to the Britannica)
He wanted anyone in the practice of Arianism to be excommunicate. Arianism was a sect of Christianity that said Jesus was just a man and denied his divinity.
Was the “mistranslation” of Lucifer and Morning Star done on purpose all along?
Seems fishy to me
Your thoughts WF?

Also I was reading over the poem “

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

“ and it says something really interesting About the Greeks vs barbarians. It seems as though that Sophia and Nyx may be one and the same.

“Greeks, why do you hate me?
Because I am a barbarian among the barbarians?
I am the wisdom of Greeks and knowledge of barbarians.
I am the judgment of Greeks and barbarians.
My image is great in Egypt, and I have no image among the barbarians.”

Nyx was both revered and respected - with a lot of caution in Greece.

The “image great in Egypt” may have been speaking about Kek - Primordial darknes, its counterpart Kauket was “bringer of light”.

The ancient Egyptian hieroglyph for night depicted the sky with a "was" scepter hanging from it.
Representing primordial darkness and creation. Or
Set - depicting darkness and chaos hanging over
Khnum - creation and fertility, respectively.
Your thoughts WF?

I've been reading more on the Mary Magdalene, including archetypal transference with Sophia/Nyx, which brought me eventually to read, "The Magdalene Legacy" by Laurence Gardner ... boy howdy did that illuminate some of the efforts to suppress significant parts of the Bible's texts ... which is to say -

the Christian Church as an institution (in most of it's many branches) has absolutely done documented fishy stuff like intention mistranslations and omissions to consolidate sociopolitical power!

 

[Shade]

the Christian Church as an institution (in most of it's many branches) has absolutely done documented fishy stuff like intention mistranslations and omissions to consolidate sociopolitical power!

100%!

 

[Xenophon]

To sum up the thread, the Catholics are a very rum lot. Excuse me while I go phone Voltaire and Diderot with the news. I mean, really gang. There's nothing out there that's insidious and warping away at hearts and minds EXCEPT the Church (as empty most Masses as Assad's guest list.)?

 

[Queenofallwitches]

I was in the library doing some research and I came across a “Saint lucifer” yesterday. I actually had NO idea there was a Saint Lucifer. But I did a lot of work with the traditional Lucifer and his etymology in the last year, there is an association with Venus “the morning star”. The light bearer & Phosphorus. An element too. embodiment of the morning star/light bearer/lux/light). All etymology for the planet Venus. Alongside Prometheus.
Lucifer, the "carrier of the light," is the equivalent to the Greek myth of Prometheus, the divinity who brings the life-giving fire to humanity, yet is punished for this act, and is only freed when that fire incarnates as the hero to free humanity.
it’s a complex Mythos with a perception based interpretation based in your own theology and theory. I personally, enjoy the lucifer who dare rebel against the rules of the metaphorical (or literal) heavens be it an archetype or real story. Expelled and rebelling, he challenged the status quo and was scapegoated. A beacon of light; the truth bearing light of the morning star, is what is my interpretation. I do a lot of Venus planetary magick and goddess work which was how my flip switched after a unrelated evocation caused me to question “what if lucifer was just inverted by the mainstream religion to make Luciferians LOOK bad and Catholics/bad xfians at the top look GOOD fo keep it for themselves so they can rule the world?” And BAM.. it clicked. He has been horrifically misrepresented by the churches and its erroneous by design to subvert people from having a rolemodel to rebel towards in aspiration for. Drop all the cliche luciferian cultist nonsense that floods the internet.
Lucifer the rebel, reject from heaven ? The pinnacle of individuality ?
Of course he wants you to walk your own path.
This is fear based from my understanding but of course, we are all based in our views and they can be liable to misleading interpretation.

a synompsis and it’s a personal journey. But I think it also comes to you. For me, I was working with archangel Michael and exploring the Golgotha mysteries which are an element of Christ but there was something “missing”. When I was approached by Lucifer on the October 2023 eclipse. He comes with not as people say. With lots of shadow work.

I know 1000% that Lucifer and Satan are NOT The same.
Satan is more likely to have issue with Jesus, not Lucifer who is very “divine, charming and angelic in appearance”.
Satan is very cloven hooves, carnal, beastly to me.

The entire relationship between Jesus and Lucifer intrigues me too. I don’t get the sense of a discord myself. There is more of a mutual understanding. We are all shoved in a sense with Jesus if raised in a Christian upbringing but what about Lucifer ? What happened with that? We heard all about Satan but Lucifer is barely talked about (I think he is mentioned once in the bible)

 

[Shade]

I was in the library doing some research and I came across a “Saint lucifer” yesterday. I actually had NO idea there was a Saint Lucifer. But I did a lot of work with the traditional Lucifer and his etymology in the last year, there is an association with Venus “the morning star”. The light bearer & Phosphorus. An element too. embodiment of the morning star/light bearer/lux/light). All etymology for the planet Venus. Alongside Prometheus.
Lucifer, the "carrier of the light," is the equivalent to the Greek myth of Prometheus, the divinity who brings the life-giving fire to humanity, yet is punished for this act, and is only freed when that fire incarnates as the hero to free humanity.
it’s a complex Mythos with a perception based interpretation based in your own theology and theory. I personally, enjoy the lucifer who dare rebel against the rules of the metaphorical (or literal) heavens be it an archetype or real story. Expelled and rebelling, he challenged the status quo and was scapegoated. A beacon of light; the truth bearing light of the morning star, is what is my interpretation. I do a lot of Venus planetary magick and goddess work which was how my flip switched after a unrelated evocation caused me to question “what if lucifer was just inverted by the mainstream religion to make Luciferians LOOK bad and Catholics/bad xfians at the top look GOOD fo keep it for themselves so they can rule the world?” And BAM.. it clicked. He has been horrifically misrepresented by the churches and its erroneous by design to subvert people from having a rolemodel to rebel towards in aspiration for. Drop all the cliche luciferian cultist nonsense that floods the internet.
Lucifer the rebel, reject from heaven ? The pinnacle of individuality ?
Of course he wants you to walk your own path.
This is fear based from my understanding but of course, we are all based in our views and they can be liable to misleading interpretation.

a synompsis and it’s a personal journey. But I think it also comes to you. For me, I was working with archangel Michael and exploring the Golgotha mysteries which are an element of Christ but there was something “missing”. When I was approached by Lucifer on the October 2023 eclipse. He comes with not as people say. With lots of shadow work.

I know 1000% that Lucifer and Satan are NOT The same.
Satan is more likely to have issue with Jesus, not Lucifer who is very “divine, charming and angelic in appearance”.
Satan is very cloven hooves, carnal, beastly to me.

The entire relationship between Jesus and Lucifer intrigues me too. I don’t get the sense of a discord myself. There is more of a mutual understanding. We are all shoved in a sense with Jesus if raised in a Christian upbringing but what about Lucifer ? What happened with that? We heard all about Satan but Lucifer is barely talked about (I think he is mentioned once in the bible)

You hit the nail on the head, as for the Golgotha painting, it’s a Rosicrucian view, Jesus was Crucified with 2 thieves one looked to him and asked “are you truly the son of God?” And Jesus replied “Tonight you will be with me In heaven” <- that was Lucifer in their tradition where as the other one on the cross in the painting and scripture looked away in spite focused on the material they call that Ahriman or Satan. (All archetypes ofc)

As for Lucifer being the morning star and a sign of love and all that, if you look into how gold is made inside the earth you may put some pieces together keeping in mind 3 main energy systems in the body and gold needs 2-3 bonds to form before it can help rise to the surface.
We all go through what is referred to as an alchemical process. Some more than others some willingly or not.
It’s sort of a metaphor on how we rise up to a personal gold standard and then humble our ego upon reflecting on the heart.
as above, so below.
The archetype of Lucifer makes a great guide and the archangel Michael is great for discernment. But ofc there are many ways people who sit back and reflect can really relate to one archetype or another. I just See Lucifer, Christ and Satan as 3 aspects of the ego and if there is an all powerful being, it would be in complete harmony but even in a an absolute perfect vacuum a photon will appear as if no-thing acted upon itself.

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there was a more recent one I can’t find that explained scientists were trying to study an absolute vacuum and they had to keep scrubbing the experiment as something kept showing up. So nothing could be seen as reliable due to the experiment being contaminated.

 

[Johny111]

Jesus is the light. Therefore, the bearer of light, the true Lucifer, is symbolically represented by that donkey on which Jesus rode into Jerusalem. What do we know about the mystery of that donkey?

 

[Shade]

Jesus is the light. Therefore, the bearer of light, the true Lucifer, is symbolically represented by that donkey on which Jesus rode into Jerusalem. What do we know about the mystery of that donkey?

Very thought provoking question.