My Thoughts On Gods, The Numinous & The Nature Of Their Existence

[CunningWyse]

In December of 2014 I wrote a little something titled The Gods And The Nature Of Their Existence on tumblr but it was all over the place and now that I'm quite a bit older and therapized, I can articulate this a lot better. Firstly, I want to say that I think the nature of spirits, gods etc, is mostly if not completely irrelevant; what matters is that they are effectual in your life and in your magic. However, it is fun to share personal Theology and cosmology with open and similarly minded people in a safe space.

Since receiving my Diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), I have thought a lot about this. I have been in therapy a while now, I can see the similarities between integration and spirit working. My altars have needs and desires, and I have to be sure to tend to them regularly, and the gods and spirits I have relationships with require similar things: foods, beverages, experiences, and my time for veneration and devotion. I have read the words and works of people much more intelligent than myself, and I have come to have the following opinion. The closest entry point into the Otherworld is within us, we traverse the inner worlds through trance and deep meditation, it is even within a deeply relaxed state that we receive psychic information and work magic. The Psyche and the otherworld are the same place to me. And the Mind is a place. What I have come to believe about the Otherworldly is that gods and spirits reside in the collective unconscious. Carl Jung himself stated in The Red Book that the Archetypes had consciousness outside of his own.

These Independent Consciousnesses started as formless awareness without identity. We came along and by using cultural stories, beliefs, symbols, and Archetypes etc gave these Consciousnesses form, Identity, and potency. Now I would like to back track a bit and say that in my first paragraph, I'm not trying to insinuate that experiencing gods and spirits is the same as mental illness; what I'm saying is that they reside in the same place. Also, i am not saying that the Gods, Spirits, Geniuses, and Numen are figments of imagination. They are real, with their own wants and desires and real-world influence.

Most often, the Otherworldly is experienced through the psyche, feelings, mental images, dreams, premontons,etc. But incredible supernatural or religious phenomena are rarer. Not that we don't have paranormal experiences, or that we don't have more than the average lay person but even then most experiences are benign or almost unnoticeable. That's because the Otherworldly are subtle powers, not weak but subtle. So blatant displays are not the norm for them. This is why synchronicities seem to occur sometimes as a symptom of liminality and sometimes as a means of communication; it is subtle enough to be doable but pronounced enough to not be missed by those who understand the mysteries.

 

[TheKEKist]

With this understanding do you believe that we only
have access only to our individual iterations of dieties or is the 'psyche' a communal plane in your experience?

My personal experience is that all energies operate on a spectrum almost as though our own personal perceptions influence the angle in which we perceive outside intelligences, powers, and principalities.
I have not yet been able to distinguish if my 'psyche' is exclusive to my perception. Perhaps our psyche bleeds into the astral not only influencing the realm but also allowing the interaction with similar 'human' consciousness'.

~cheers to the subtle~

 

[CunningWyse]

With this understanding do you believe that we only
have access only to our individual iterations of dieties or is the 'psyche' a communal plane in your experience?

My personal experience is that all energies operate on a spectrum almost as though our own personal perceptions influence the angle in which we perceive outside intelligences, powers, and principalities.
I have not yet been able to distinguish if my 'psyche' is exclusive to my perception. Perhaps our psyche bleeds into the astral not only influencing the realm but also allowing the interaction with similar 'human' consciousness'.

~cheers to the subtle~

Hey, from what I have experienced, I see it as a shared plane, akin to the collective unconscious. But i think that our own perceptions and life experiences shape the way that psychic information is interpreted and processed in our individual minds and bodies. Which is why there are minor inconsistencies in experiences when summoning, invoking, or evoking traditional spirits when comparing that to other people who have worked with the same spirit. However, it is also explains why there are so many consistencies, and proves that the spirits have consciousness and autonomy outside of us as practitioners. We don’t even experience other people all the same way, so of course it would be the same with spirits. And don't get me wrong, I am an animist first and foremost, so that tree spirit is absolutely in that tree, but the psyche is the “software” that enables us to have communion with them.

I hope I'm not babbling, and this makes sense

 

[TheKEKist]

Hey, from what I have experienced, I see it as a shared plane, akin to the collective unconscious. But i think that our own perceptions and life experiences shape the way that psychic information is interpreted and processed in our individual minds and bodies. Which is why there are minor inconsistencies in experiences when summoning, invoking, or evoking traditional spirits when comparing that to other people who have worked with the same spirit. However, it is also explains why there are so many consistencies, and proves that the spirits have consciousness and autonomy outside of us as practitioners. We don’t even experience other people all the same way, so of course it would be the same with spirits. And don't get me wrong, I am an animist first and foremost, so that tree spirit is absolutely in that tree, but the psyche is the “software” that enables us to have communion with them.

I hope I'm not babbling, and this makes sense

This absolutely makes sense, thank you much for the elucidation!

 

[aviaf]

I really appreciate the way you framed this, especially the point that what matters is that spirits and gods are effectual in our lives rather than whether we can pin down their “true nature.” That really echoes how I’ve come to see magick: it’s not about ultimate definitions, it’s about lived impact.

Your parallel between DID integration work and spirit-work is powerful. Tending to alters, tending to gods and spirits—it’s all relationship, reciprocity, and respect for other centers of consciousness. The way you describe altars as having “needs and desires” resonates with my experience too. Objects, spaces, and spirits become enlivened through care. Neglect them, and they withdraw. Feed them, and they respond.

I also agree with you on the psyche as an entry point to the Otherworld. Whether we think of it as Jung’s collective unconscious, the astral plane, or even the “dreaming mind of the cosmos,” the doorway opens through us. What fascinates me most is the way cultural archetypes become inhabited, as you put it—formless awareness clothed in story, symbol, and tradition until they become independent beings. To me, that’s a kind of co-creation between humans and the Other.

The subtlety you mention is key. People often expect gods or spirits to show up like in the movies: booming voices, flaming apparitions, miracles on demand. But in practice it’s quieter—patterns, synchronicities, shifts in intuition, uncanny nudges in the right direction. Subtle doesn’t mean weak. Subtle often means precise. Like a whisper that cuts deeper than a shout.

I think there’s a paradox here worth sitting with: we shape the gods, and the gods shape us. They exist in us, yet outside us. They emerge from our psyche, yet reach back into the world with will and presence. Instead of trying to resolve the paradox, I’ve learned to live in it. That liminal “both/and” space is where the current flows strongest.

 

[CunningWyse]

I really appreciate the way you framed this, especially the point that what matters is that spirits and gods are effectual in our lives rather than whether we can pin down their “true nature.” That really echoes how I’ve come to see magick: it’s not about ultimate definitions, it’s about lived impact.

Your parallel between DID integration work and spirit-work is powerful. Tending to alters, tending to gods and spirits—it’s all relationship, reciprocity, and respect for other centers of consciousness. The way you describe altars as having “needs and desires” resonates with my experience too. Objects, spaces, and spirits become enlivened through care. Neglect them, and they withdraw. Feed them, and they respond.

I also agree with you on the psyche as an entry point to the Otherworld. Whether we think of it as Jung’s collective unconscious, the astral plane, or even the “dreaming mind of the cosmos,” the doorway opens through us. What fascinates me most is the way cultural archetypes become inhabited, as you put it—formless awareness clothed in story, symbol, and tradition until they become independent beings. To me, that’s a kind of co-creation between humans and the Other.

The subtlety you mention is key. People often expect gods or spirits to show up like in the movies: booming voices, flaming apparitions, miracles on demand. But in practice it’s quieter—patterns, synchronicities, shifts in intuition, uncanny nudges in the right direction. Subtle doesn’t mean weak. Subtle often means precise. Like a whisper that cuts deeper than a shout.

I think there’s a paradox here worth sitting with: we shape the gods, and the gods shape us. They exist in us, yet outside us. They emerge from our psyche, yet reach back into the world with will and presence. Instead of trying to resolve the paradox, I’ve learned to live in it. That liminal “both/and” space is where the current flows strongest.

Firstly I just want to say that your response is beautifully written, and I am happy that this resonated with you so strongly.