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On Healing, and the ethics of consent.

lumineth Realm Lord

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So, my brother's brother in law is sick. Like really sick. I've only met him once, but I feel the need to do a healing rite for him. I asked my brother if he could ask his wife for permission. He said "No, it's not for us." By my own ethical philosophy, I should respect his decision. But this is a matter of life and death. So, I'm debating if my philosophy would justify going against his wishes.

I wanted to ask you for your take on this, and how you'd go about with it. Book suggestions please!

PS. I still think we need a section for intentions.
 

Morell

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If the person themselves refuses, that's a law to obey. If you cannot contact him directly, make a contact with his higher self and ask that part of him to get direct answer. His higher self is still him and can tell you if the healing should be done or if it is not his wish to live anymore, the higher self has authority on that matter anyway I think.
 

KjEno186

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Have you tried a divination? Perhaps ask, "What would the outcome be for myself if I went against my brother-in-law's wishes and performed a healing for him?" Alternately, "If I performed a healing for my brother-in-law against his consent, would it be effective?"
 

FireBorn

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Its pretty cut and dried to me, if someone doesnt want help, there is nothing you can do for them. Let them be. For better or worse, cant save the world. It isnt your job. Its cool you want to help, but yeah draw the line somewhere.

Dont get involved unless asked. If asked, stay out of their emotional drama. Pay attention to the energetic bullshit you allow yourself to get involved in/with. It will affect you if you aren't paying attention. Its a good practice and I'm betting no one here would disagree with me.
 

Yazata

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Earlier this year I did rituals for two very sick people (without them knowing). A very weird outcome is that it healed my own busted up knee that had been bothering me for a long time.
My honest advice is
Screenshot_20250829-190754~2.png
 

lumineth Realm Lord

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Its pretty cut and dried to me, if someone doesnt want help, there is nothing you can do for them. Let them be. For better or worse, cant save the world. It isnt your job. Its cool you want to help, but yeah draw the line somewhere.

Dont get involved unless asked. If asked, stay out of their emotional drama. Pay attention to the energetic bullshit you allow yourself to get involved in/with. It will affect you if you aren't paying attention. Its a good practice and I'm betting no one here would disagree with me.
Not sure where you're getting the idea there's emotional drama. This guy is literally sick.
Post automatically merged:

Have you tried a divination? Perhaps ask, "What would the outcome be for myself if I went against my brother-in-law's wishes and performed a healing for him?" Alternately, "If I performed a healing for my brother-in-law against his consent, would it be effective?"
Haven't yet, but some few days before, I did ask my pendulum if I am allowed to help people as I see fit. It said yes.
 

8Lou1

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a doctor is supposed to have healing as its goal. and thats a good thing. but putting medicine in someones food without them knowing is just healing the body and perhaps destroying a caring relationship. so you kinda have to take a more holistic approach. you already know your brother and his wife are anti, so that would change your relationship with them if you did it anyways. either by having a secret or by them not being happy with what you did. the patient in question isnt even mentioned in your story, so that makes it look like its more a question for you that popped up in your life then a question of healing for the patient.

instead of asking for healing the patient one could ask for healing the situation.
 

FireBorn

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Not sure where you're getting the idea there's emotional drama. This guy is literally sick.
Just giving my take on what I believe to be good guidance when it comes to spending your own time and energy on the behalf of others. I've seen more well intentioned folks get involved in other peoples situations and get pulled into drama and energetic mess.

If it doesn't apply to your situation, that's a good thing.
 

FraACAB

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Interesting moral question and my short answer would be to stick to your morals and not intervene.

In healthcare we wouldn’t give an intervention or treatment without informed consent except in cases of potentIsla life/limb saving treatment in emergency situations or if the person has been judged to not have the capacity to make informed decisions ie impaired cognition.

That said I do feel that in modern magical circles we might over moralise at times. 🤔 I’ve not come across any examples of proscriptive moral guidelines in pre-grim or grimoiric writings when it comes to workings in a similar vein. If anyone knows otherwise pls point them out to me.

The early Wiccan/Witchcraft revival had the “an it harm none…” and 3 fold law but there isn’t any strong historical precedence for it. But on the other side of the coin the Golden Dawn and Crowley would probably fall foul of scrutiny from a modern cultural lens.

Just thought, not opinions.

Sorry to digress; I like an ethical question and it gets my ADD mind rabbit holing!

FrACAB
 

beardedeldridge

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“That said I do feel that in modern magical circles we might over moralize at times.”
-FrACAB

☝️generally this

_________

Now specifically, if you can’t square with doing it then don’t.

Other than that, don’t worry about consent and do what you can to help, if you want to.

-Eld
 

lumineth Realm Lord

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Interesting moral question and my short answer would be to stick to your morals and not intervene.

In healthcare we wouldn’t give an intervention or treatment without informed consent except in cases of potentIsla life/limb saving treatment in emergency situations or if the person has been judged to not have the capacity to make informed decisions ie impaired cognition.

That said I do feel that in modern magical circles we might over moralise at times. 🤔 I’ve not come across any examples of proscriptive moral guidelines in pre-grim or grimoiric writings when it comes to workings in a similar vein. If anyone knows otherwise pls point them out to me.

The early Wiccan/Witchcraft revival had the “an it harm none…” and 3 fold law but there isn’t any strong historical precedence for it. But on the other side of the coin the Golden Dawn and Crowley would probably fall foul of scrutiny from a modern cultural lens.

Just thought, not opinions.

Sorry to digress; I like an ethical question and it gets my ADD mind rabbit holing!

FrACAB
As said, my ethics are complex. I mean, I would listen to my brother normally, but I'm being drawn to the idea that a human life matters more than his consent.

Though, I left out a small detail. I asked if he wanted instructions on how to use Raphael's sigil. That's when he said "It's not for us.". So, technically, he didn't say he doesn't want me to do anything myself.

I offered the instructions to him because he is closer to the guy. Or he can pass it along to his wife, who is the guy's sister. I felt that they could do a better job than me due to relational proximity. But he's not interested, so I gotta do something myself.

I do apologize for leaving key information. I didn't want to create a wall of text for you. But now I'm thinking I should have mentioned it.
 

aviaf

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So, my brother's brother in law is sick. Like really sick. I've only met him once, but I feel the need to do a healing rite for him. I asked my brother if he could ask his wife for permission. He said "No, it's not for us." By my own ethical philosophy, I should respect his decision. But this is a matter of life and death. So, I'm debating if my philosophy would justify going against his wishes.

I wanted to ask you for your take on this, and how you'd go about with it. Book suggestions please!

PS. I still think we need a section for intentions.
I see where you’re coming from, and I’d push back a little on the “always ask consent” rule.

Some options are:
  • Indirect or symbolic healing – Rather than trying to “force” energy into someone’s system, you can perform a rite for the situation itself, for their comfort, for the forces that aid healing, or for the balance of life and health in general. The energy flows toward the need without overriding the individual’s own will.
  • Invocation to universal forces – Work with deities, spirits, or archetypes associated with healing. For instance, in a Norse frame, you might call on Eir (goddess of healing) or Baldr (symbol of life and restoration) to lend their force to the situation. Again, this is indirect—an appeal to powers rather than trying to channel energy straight into a person without permission.
  • Intention setting – You’re right, intentions are crucial. Clearly define what you’re aiming for: relief, comfort, stabilization, guidance for medical professionals, etc. Then let the ritual reflect that intention without attempting to “rewrite” the person’s own path.

Think about it: Christians, and the various forms of Christendom, often “pray for” someone without their knowledge or permission. They don’t pause to ask if the person wants intervention—they simply act, trusting that their deity will direct the energy appropriately. So why should magicians hesitate when working with healing gods or archetypes on behalf of someone who may not know how to ask, or even that they need help? From a Chaos/Norse perspective, the gods themselves are forces—they are capable of guiding the energy safely, and of protecting the person’s will. When we call on Eir, Baldr, or other healing forces, we are not overriding anyone—we are enlisting allies who already understand how to work with the currents of life and health.

That said, acting on someone’s behalf is not neutral. By working with or without their consent, you tie your wyrd to that person, directly affecting your own hamingja- the luck, vitality, and life force that flows through you. You are engaging in a living relationship with their energy, which can be beneficial, but also requires mindfulness, respect, and clarity of intention. This is why intention is critical: it protects both you and the person you are helping.

Practical approach for indirect healing:
  1. Set clear intentions: Specify what you want to support—relief, stabilization, comfort, or guidance for caregivers.
  2. Call on appropriate forces: Invoke healing deities, archetypes, or universal forces symbolically through meditation, visualization, or ritual objects.
  3. Work with the situation, not the person: Focus energy on the illness, the environment, or the flow of life and health rather than forcing change directly.
  4. Release and trust: Let the energy go, trusting the forces you’ve called can act safely without your micromanagement.
  5. Document and reflect: Keep track of intentions, methods, and outcomes. Reflection refines practice and maintains ethical clarity.
Ultimately, the question isn’t "can we act without permission?" -it’s "can we act responsibly, consciously, and with clarity, knowing we are binding our own wyrd to the situation?" The answer, in my experience, is yes-but only with mindfulness and respect for the forces you are engaging.

At the end of the day, sometimes the most powerful magic is simply focused, ethical intention-sending energy toward life and balance, without trying to rewrite someone else’s path.
 

lumineth Realm Lord

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I see where you’re coming from, and I’d push back a little on the “always ask consent” rule.

Some options are:
  • Indirect or symbolic healing – Rather than trying to “force” energy into someone’s system, you can perform a rite for the situation itself, for their comfort, for the forces that aid healing, or for the balance of life and health in general. The energy flows toward the need without overriding the individual’s own will.
  • Invocation to universal forces – Work with deities, spirits, or archetypes associated with healing. For instance, in a Norse frame, you might call on Eir (goddess of healing) or Baldr (symbol of life and restoration) to lend their force to the situation. Again, this is indirect—an appeal to powers rather than trying to channel energy straight into a person without permission.
  • Intention setting – You’re right, intentions are crucial. Clearly define what you’re aiming for: relief, comfort, stabilization, guidance for medical professionals, etc. Then let the ritual reflect that intention without attempting to “rewrite” the person’s own path.

Think about it: Christians, and the various forms of Christendom, often “pray for” someone without their knowledge or permission. They don’t pause to ask if the person wants intervention—they simply act, trusting that their deity will direct the energy appropriately. So why should magicians hesitate when working with healing gods or archetypes on behalf of someone who may not know how to ask, or even that they need help? From a Chaos/Norse perspective, the gods themselves are forces—they are capable of guiding the energy safely, and of protecting the person’s will. When we call on Eir, Baldr, or other healing forces, we are not overriding anyone—we are enlisting allies who already understand how to work with the currents of life and health.

That said, acting on someone’s behalf is not neutral. By working with or without their consent, you tie your wyrd to that person, directly affecting your own hamingja- the luck, vitality, and life force that flows through you. You are engaging in a living relationship with their energy, which can be beneficial, but also requires mindfulness, respect, and clarity of intention. This is why intention is critical: it protects both you and the person you are helping.

Practical approach for indirect healing:
  1. Set clear intentions: Specify what you want to support—relief, stabilization, comfort, or guidance for caregivers.
  2. Call on appropriate forces: Invoke healing deities, archetypes, or universal forces symbolically through meditation, visualization, or ritual objects.
  3. Work with the situation, not the person: Focus energy on the illness, the environment, or the flow of life and health rather than forcing change directly.
  4. Release and trust: Let the energy go, trusting the forces you’ve called can act safely without your micromanagement.
  5. Document and reflect: Keep track of intentions, methods, and outcomes. Reflection refines practice and maintains ethical clarity.
Ultimately, the question isn’t "can we act without permission?" -it’s "can we act responsibly, consciously, and with clarity, knowing we are binding our own wyrd to the situation?" The answer, in my experience, is yes-but only with mindfulness and respect for the forces you are engaging.

At the end of the day, sometimes the most powerful magic is simply focused, ethical intention-sending energy toward life and balance, without trying to rewrite someone else’s path.
Unfortunately, when Christians pray, I think sometimes its less about the welfare of the other person, and more about virtue signalling. I mean, some even will pray for you just because you don't buy into their belief system. To which point, it's about asserting control. I mean the whole point of Christianity is to spread and conquer.

As someone with autism, and possibly ADHD, but I'm looking into a diagnosis, I've dealt with people who have tried to take away my agency under the claim of good intentions. That's why I'm so concerned over the idea of consent.

However, this person is sick, so I'm reconsidering that maybe saving a life justifies breaking my code of ethics. I'm not doing it to convert him. I'm just trying to help someone.

With that being said, I'm mainly looking at doing so through the Christian God. I have other methods in mind in case that doesn't work. One of which is the compassion rite in the satanic Bible. But I'd rather use a method that aligned with the targets belief system.
 
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If you're using a ritual to encourage healing, without any direct action or steps the recipient needs to take, you can do it without telling them. If it's a rite that needs the recipient to participate then just let things be as they wish. Arguing about the ethics and morality of something that isn't directly visible and isn't harmful is stupid. It'd be different if you were slipping medicine into their food or some other highly illegal shit, but if you're just doing a ritual for healing there's no point in working yourself up over something that ideally should appear as good luck or a fortuitous chance for the target of said ritual.

TL;DR don't be stupid and just do what you feel is right.
 
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