Proof of Immortality?

[Xenophon]

In his conversations with Eckermann, Goethe said, "...the eternal existence of my soul is proved from my need of activity. If I work incessantly till my death, nature is pledged to give me another form of being when the present no longer sustains my spirit." Your thoughts?

I wouldn't call the proof apodictic. But there strikes me it has something highly attractive about it.

 

[Taudefindi]

"...the eternal existence of my soul is proved from my need of activity. If I work incessantly till my death, nature is pledged to give me another form of being when the present no longer sustains my spirit."

Nature isn't forced to anything, it just is and we have to deal with it as it is, this sounded more like a "god will reward me for this" type of talk, he just used the word "nature" in place of "god".Seems more like he was trying to cope with something, maybe the futility of his life and the fear of the unknown by trying to spin this into something comforting for his understanding.

Doesn't strike me as immortal though, but probably because my concept of immortality isn't about the soul, but the surviving body in the physical realm that the soul inhabits.

 

[Xenophon]

Nature isn't forced to anything, it just is and we have to deal with it as it is, this sounded more like a "god will reward me for this" type of talk, he just used the word "nature" in place of "god".Seems more like he was trying to cope with something, maybe the futility of his life and the fear of the unknown by trying to spin this into something comforting for his understanding.

Doesn't strike me as immortal though, but probably because my concept of immortality isn't about the soul, but the surviving body in the physical realm that the soul inhabits.

There is that side to it, i.e, wishful thinking. It would be better had he said need for activity was an intimation, not a proof. Gabriel Marcel made a similar argument about love being evidence for immortality, not proof.

I would scarcely say Goethe much suffered from the feeling of futility. As Nietzsche (a fan) observed, at times Goethe seemed to think he ran the world from his garden gazebo there in Weimar. In that case, his satisfaction with activity might unkindly be taken as echoing the character in Dickens. After a huge dinner he sighs, "I do not understand how anyone in the world could be hungry." By the same token, "I can't die: I'm too happily busy!"

 

[Ziran]

Your thoughts?

the best collection of evidence I'm aware of is from University of Virginia, USA

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[silencewaits]

In his conversations with Eckermann, Goethe said, "...the eternal existence of my soul is proved from my need of activity. If I work incessantly till my death, nature is pledged to give me another form of being when the present no longer sustains my spirit." Your thoughts?

I wouldn't call the proof apodictic. But there strikes me it has something highly attractive about it.

I'd say he's on the right path. Most theory I know of post-death existence - conscious or not - follows along those lines.

 

[Shade]

I can read that 2 ways, one he is saying the wishful thinking aspect as mentioned,
but it could also hint at there is more than work, we are here separated, incomplete, left brain/right brain,
we work because we are programmed to wether it’s for societal approval (being virtuous)
Self respect (taking care of yourself)
financial well being (learning and working) etc, in death we no longer sustain these aspects as we no longer have a body to sustain, that drive is no longer necessary. We are the soul, and our spirit of what we gain in life may stay with us. Could be what he was hinting at?

 

[Xenophon]

I can read that 2 ways, one he is saying the wishful thinking aspect as mentioned,
but it could also hint at there is more than work, we are here separated, incomplete, left brain/right brain,
we work because we are programmed to wether it’s for societal approval (being virtuous)
Self respect (taking care of yourself)
financial well being (learning and working) etc, in death we no longer sustain these aspects as we no longer have a body to sustain, that drive is no longer necessary. We are the soul, and our spirit of what we gain in life may stay with us. Could be what he was hinting at?

The conversation arc where this occurs was when Goethe was getting old and trying to tie it all together, from poetry to novels to drama to his work on plants and Farbenlehre, his attack on Newton. A sort of Unified Theory of Lots of Stuff. He seemed to think it offended against the aesthetics of the universe if one was going to get cut-off in mid-phrase like that. (Though he does not actually use that turn of expression.)

 

[the_snake_charmer]

In his conversations with Eckermann, Goethe said, "...the eternal existence of my soul is proved from my need of activity. If I work incessantly till my death, nature is pledged to give me another form of being when the present no longer sustains my spirit." Your thoughts?

I wouldn't call the proof apodictic. But there strikes me it has something highly attractive about it.

You die tired. There is no immortality. Everyday life itself is struggle. After long war we give up.