Religion

[Mider2009]

What is your opinion on religion...are you religious? If not do you find that religious is useful for anything?

I was raised Catholic then spent a while going from church to church till I settled at one of those fundamentalist churches that thinks everyone’s damned except them and denies evolution among other silly things.

for a time I studied atheism then returned to Christianity solo, as in no church, after many more years I studied Judaism and Kabbalah but I am not Jewish as one must have a formal conversion and more so follow the laws, laws like kosher eating, celebrating the sabbath, marrying only another Jew (one of my biggest contentions in church was that they wanted to tell us who we could marry) etc.

I won’t convert due to the above reasons and the fact that many Jewish groups go by tradition rather then the Torah n Mishnah which is the entirety of Judaism, IMO ostracizing someone for not believing every tradition or worse abusing them is sad.

none the less I find many religions serve a purpose, if used properly they create a sense of community, they teach morality, they can also train one spiritually

my favorite Rabbi on Kabbalah on YouTube teaches that every one no matter in what religion they are serve God (this was also the opinion of the medieval Rabbi Rashi) what this means...is that if a Christian sincerely believes that Jesus can remove your sin then he can, same with many other rituals like the one I mentioned in another thread.

 

[Yazata]

I find many religions serve a purpose, if used properly they create a sense of community, they teach morality, they can also train one spiritually

I agree with this, as I said in another thread.

For myself, I wasn't raised in a religion. Yes, I was made Catholic at birth, baptized and did communion but the only time we ever went to church was at the yearly commemoration of my grandfather. Untill my grandmother died, then no one ever went anymore.

I believe, but my concept of God is fluid.

 

[SkullTraill]

I was raised as a casual Roman Catholic. Then, due to some life circumstances, my family had to give up Roman Catholicism and go to a new-age Christian church. Luckily, that only made us more casual, flexible, and less rigid in our religious beliefs. Soon after my exposure to non-RC Christianity, I started to have doubts about organized religion. Read the bible several times, and this was around the 7-11 age range when my exposure and interest in science was blossoming. So I went through the spectrum of relatively Christian, to agnostic theism, to full-blown atheism and resentment and bitterness towards religion... for several years it stayed that way until I grew up and faced actual problems in life other than theoretical armchair religious philosophy. At this point, I was also learning more about the occult, and history... and I came to terms with the fact that religion has its uses.

While I am still not religious from an organized religion perspective, I have come to terms with spirituality, religion, spiritual people, religious people. And from a non-organized religion perspective, I've also opened my mind to the possibility and reality of religious constructs and deities being useful... this mainly came about in the last 10 years when I became more into the occult.

 

[Mider2009]

I was raised as a casual Roman Catholic. Then, due to some life circumstances, my family had to give up Roman Catholicism and go to a new-age Christian church. Luckily, that only made us more casual, flexible, and less rigid in our religious beliefs. Soon after my exposure to non-RC Christianity, I started to have doubts about organized religion. Read the bible several times, and this was around the 7-11 age range when my exposure and interest in science was blossoming. So I went through the spectrum of relatively Christian, to agnostic theism, to full-blown atheism and resentment and bitterness towards religion... for several years it stayed that way until I grew up and faced actual problems in life other than theoretical armchair religious philosophy. At this point, I was also learning more about the occult, and history... and I came to terms with the fact that religion has its uses.

While I am still not religious from an organized religion perspective, I have come to terms with spirituality, religion, spiritual people, religious people. And from a non-organized religion perspective, I've also opened my mind to the possibility and reality of religious constructs and deities being useful... this mainly came about in the last 10 years when I became more into the occult.

What I find sad in religion is when they take advantage of kids when they don’t have a proper education and start feeding them nonsense about science etc

 

[Mider2009]

I agree with this, as I said in another thread.

For myself, I wasn't raised in a religion. Yes, I was made Catholic at birth, baptized and did communion but the only time we ever went to church was at the yearly commemoration of my grandfather. Untill my grandmother died, then no one ever went anymore.

I believe, but my concept of God is fluid.

I think every religion has a bit of Gods truth till some wacko ruins it

 

[Yazata]

wacko

Yeah I think everybody will agree with that. It's hard for people to pass on God's message without injecting just a tiny sliver of their own self serving ideas.
And with the next speech another sliver gets added etc.
Untill the prophet is god himself.

 

[Irish Bard]

What is your opinion on religion...are you religious? If not do you find that religious is useful for anything?

I was raised Catholic then spent a while going from church to church till I settled at one of those fundamentalist churches that thinks everyone’s damned except them and denies evolution among other silly things.

for a time I studied atheism then returned to Christianity solo, as in no church, after many more years I studied Judaism and Kabbalah but I am not Jewish as one must have a formal conversion and more so follow the laws, laws like kosher eating, celebrating the sabbath, marrying only another Jew (one of my biggest contentions in church was that they wanted to tell us who we could marry) etc.

I won’t convert due to the above reasons and the fact that many Jewish groups go by tradition rather then the Torah n Mishnah which is the entirety of Judaism, IMO ostracizing someone for not believing every tradition or worse abusing them is sad.

none the less I find many religions serve a purpose, if used properly they create a sense of community, they teach morality, they can also train one spiritually

my favorite Rabbi on Kabbalah on YouTube teaches that every one no matter in what religion they are serve God (this was also the opinion of the medieval Rabbi Rashi) what this means...is that if a Christian sincerely believes that Jesus can remove your sin then he can, same with many other rituals like the one I mentioned in another thread.

I'm an Irish Catholic myself - there are many, many things that have gone wrong there but the Catholic Mass is an incredible piece of ritual theatre. The Wiccans have some nice ceremonies but I've yet to see anything that comes close (of course I'm a bedroom based ameateur so I've never been privy to the stuff that goes in rooms behind secret knocks).

My personal gripes are the hideous corruption of the organisation (but that is squarely the failures of man) and I used to be mad at "No God before me" rule but I've come to understand that the Christian God is actually the entire universe and that the commandment actually means the consecration of the mundane and I actually buy into that (see previous rant The real problem with 'the secret'). I actually think a lot of symbols and beings are avatars and servants of the source and provide us with an easier way to connect. Sometimes communing with the concept of entirety just feels to abstract.

I think you're absolutely right about a lot of things and communing with Odin and Jesus (even in the same invocation) is perfectly legitimate.

If you like Christianity there's nothing stopping you working it into a blend of other philosophies.

For my part, if established religion has really screwed up it's in the denial of the need for a personal path. For me the practice that excludes the individual's art, personality or personal take on whatever lore they're using is NO PRACTICE AT ALL.

Needless to say the Catholic church has also disastrously failed to keep its house in order, but best not get into that here.

 

[WantlerWandlerX]

I grew up in a religious blind household, which explains most of my family's problems. No order or road map about life just pig trough and go to school. The only reason I found out about magic is because I had a step-dad who had dim ideas about the occult and Druidry. "Yeah man necronian abyss is hardcore I saw archangels and demons, man, it was totally scary and edgy blah blah"
Because of this I was a firm agnostic/atheist but for a while I just cared about video games and other "self serving" things. It took me forever to have an actual concept of god or the higher self.

when someone is not introduced to religion, they're just getting to know god, only straight to the point. However what can get in the way is profane garbage instead of the profundity of nature. It's easy to get lost without the guidance that religion provides. I've always been on the fringe with official religion so I'll talk crap at the bible or appreciate the Jews from afar for their Kabballah. Anton Wilson and Allen watts I sipped from but overall I just observe and learn from life and whatever information I read and can successfully apply, from high magic manuals, to getting increments of mundane knowledge on google search.

 

[Mider2009]

I grew up in a religious blind household, which explains most of my family's problems. No order or road map about life just pig trough and go to school. The only reason I found out about magic is because I had a step-dad who had dim ideas about the occult and Druidry. "Yeah man necronian abyss is hardcore I saw archangels and demons, man, it was totally scary and edgy blah blah"
Because of this I was a firm agnostic/atheist but for a while I just cared about video games and other "self serving" things. It took me forever to have an actual concept of god or the higher self.

when someone is not introduced to religion, they're just getting to know god, only straight to the point. However what can get in the way is profane garbage instead of the profundity of nature. It's easy to get lost without the guidance that religion provides. I've always been on the fringe with official religion so I'll talk crap at the bible or appreciate the Jews from afar for their Kabballah. Anton Wilson and Allen watts I sipped from but overall I just observe and learn from life and whatever information I read and can successfully apply, from high magic manuals, to getting increments of mundane knowledge on google search.

Interesting perspective, I think as religion fails to acknowledge things like science so people don’t want to even bother with it as you’re called a heretic for believing in modern ideas, philosophy.

 

[Mider2009]

I'm an Irish Catholic myself - there are many, many things that have gone wrong there but the Catholic Mass is an incredible piece of ritual theatre. The Wiccans have some nice ceremonies but I've yet to see anything that comes close (of course I'm a bedroom based ameateur so I've never been privy to the stuff that goes in rooms behind secret knocks).

My personal gripes are the hideous corruption of the organisation (but that is squarely the failures of man) and I used to be mad at "No God before me" rule but I've come to understand that the Christian God is actually the entire universe and that the commandment actually means the consecration of the mundane and I actually buy into that (see previous rant The real problem with 'the secret'). I actually think a lot of symbols and beings are avatars and servants of the source and provide us with an easier way to connect. Sometimes communing with the concept of entirety just feels to abstract.

I think you're absolutely right about a lot of things and communing with Odin and Jesus (even in the same invocation) is perfectly legitimate.

If you like Christianity there's nothing stopping you working it into a blend of other philosophies.

For my part, if established religion has really screwed up it's in the denial of the need for a personal path. For me the practice that excludes the individual's art, personality or personal take on whatever lore they're using is NO PRACTICE AT ALL.

Needless to say the Catholic church has also disastrously failed to keep its house in order, but best not get into that here.

Very cool insight, I wish I could see an old Latin mass

 

[SkullTraill]

Very cool insight, I wish I could see an old Latin mass

If you can find an old cathedral or basilica (though that might be tough in the US on the account of the country itself not being very old) they usually have at least 1 time slot per week for a latin mass.

 

[WantlerWandlerX]

Interesting perspective, I think as religion fails to acknowledge things like science so people don’t want to even bother with it as you’re called a heretic for believing in modern ideas, philosophy.

To backpack of what Irish Bard said, organized religion seems limiting in a rigid dogma. There's one thing of many things and so many perspectives viewing parts of the many things and I think institutions get a lot about some things but not other things.

In my experience with Christians, they can be masters of folding laundry, cooking, taking care of a family, teaching the language arts (mostly to read the bible lol), for I gather what the word of Christ does is to teach people to unpackage life within these limiting boundaries. I think the word ignorance is more powerful than what it is generally considered to be. I find that Christians will directly ignore something that the bible or church hasn't equipped them to deal with. Every human does this to be fair. It's like they can feel the initial problem but they act flashbanged like they can't access the problem. Not to confuse this with withholding to tell someone else of a situation. A good example is collage aged nerds being in a group and sexuality comes out and everyone gets all frozen.

 

[Roma]

Long ago on a bus tour of Europe we visited many churches/cathedrals. I regularly noticed that if there was a Mass being performed in a chapel, that area felt much better than the rest of the building.

I never noticed that with non-Catholic churches.

I should note however that just because a church is officially Roman Catholic, does not mean that it follows Christ. That was very evident in France

Some Anglican churches felt free - as if I was allowed to believe what I liked.

 

[Mider2009]

To backpack of what Irish Bard said, organized religion seems limiting in a rigid dogma. There's one thing of many things and so many perspectives viewing parts of the many things and I think institutions get a lot about some things but not other things.

In my experience with Christians, they can be masters of folding laundry, cooking, taking care of a family, teaching the language arts (mostly to read the bible lol), for I gather what the word of Christ does is to teach people to unpackage life within these limiting boundaries. I think the word ignorance is more powerful than what it is generally considered to be. I find that Christians will directly ignore something that the bible or church hasn't equipped them to deal with. Every human does this to be fair. It's like they can feel the initial problem but they act flashbanged like they can't access the problem. Not to confuse this with withholding to tell someone else of a situation. A good example is collage aged nerds being in a group and sexuality comes out and everyone gets all frozen.

I’ve found the same...christians will go crazy if I bring up Abortion isn’t considered Murder in the Bible, or how Jesus was simply espousing poetic language when speaking about hell, or that he was not a hippy lovey dovey guy but someone who made a whip and beat up in the money changers (which was endorsed by the temple) and spoke about how his enemies Would be killed.

 

[Jarhyn]

So, I'm going to enter this with a definition of religion many will probably dislike.

As has been said elsewhere by a voice containing wisdom, academically, the second thing you learn about religion is the contentious nature of the definition thereof.

I define it, primarily, as "that which is believed uncritically".

There is a twofold mechanism, Trust but Verify, which for me has allowed great function while at the same time jettisoning more parasitic concepts as less parasitic ones become available. Parasitic here being against the quality of "the process" the concept is a part of.

These facts do not mean that the stories themselves are not apt to speak and listen to, and find wisdom in. Just... Trust but Verify.

Religion ends at verification.

 

[Konsciencia]

I was raised Catholic through my parents, but I was never intuned with that religion. When I was a child, I didn't feel comfortable going to church. Like I felt, that it was not right. Thanks to The Universe, I don't follow religion at all.

 

[8Lou1]

For me religion gave me paths into spiritual wisdom. It was only after someone in my area decided to suck out the spiritual meaning of it (this has been going on for the last 5 years i think) that the normally helpfull actions like prayer and fasting became totally mute and life became empty. I understand the why now behind that action, but it broke my heart. I know it is not for everyone, but i loved the rituals. What i disliked is the spirits who took the places of godhead, but that was because i can see them. And when i pray to allah i dont think i shoud see a spirit acting like allah, even if and when the spirit also moves under Allah's command. In such cases i made it clear i rather have an equal conversation and some insights.

So i think religion and occult can combine, but such cases have to do with having to stay in hiding due to human rulings on occult being. Here in the west we lately have freedom of faith so why hide it.

Needless to say the spirits acting as godhead decided to listen to me as my deceased mum and i agreed and they slowly moved power from her to me and are giving me the room to do it more openly while also understanding that i know my godhead is yet an other spirit, just one i cant see or reach, only tru my own personal prayers.

So where my mum walked everything within religious paradigm and made clear distinctions between moslims and nonmoslims, i am way more inclined to leave the religious paradigm and look at how and where things properly fit, so life becomes effortless. Which to me is the essence of islam.

 

[Konsciencia]

For me religion gave me paths into spiritual wisdom. It was only after someone in my area decided to suck out the spiritual meaning of it (this has been going on for the last 5 years i think) that the normally helpfull actions like prayer and fasting became totally mute and life became empty. I understand the why now behind that action, but it broke my heart. I know it is not for everyone, but i loved the rituals. What i disliked is the spirits who took the places of godhead, but that was because i can see them. And when i pray to allah i dont think i shoud see a spirit acting like allah, even if and when the spirit also moves under Allah's command. In such cases i made it clear i rather have an equal conversation and some insights.

So i think religion and occult can combine, but such cases have to do with having to stay in hiding due to human rulings on occult being. Here in the west we lately have freedom of faith so why hide it.

Needless to say the spirits acting as godhead decided to listen to me as my deceased mum and i agreed and they slowly moved power from her to me and are giving me the room to do it more openly while also understanding that i know my godhead is yet an other spirit, just one i cant see or reach, only tru my own personal prayers.

So where my mum walked everything within religious paradigm and made clear distinctions between moslims and nonmoslims, i am way more inclined to leave the religious paradigm and look at how and where things properly fit, so life becomes effortless. Which to me is the essence of islam.

Have you ever try, to Astral Project to see your Love One? In my case, I haven't yet but I can see them within my Mind's Eye at times. I think you should try it. Just a recommendation. But, I like what you Stated. With Love and respect. And, many blessings to you!

 

[8Lou1]

Well, i am of the persuasion that my family now is my LOVE, so ive always helped them with the several layers of their existence, including the astral and made sure family life stayed healthy and happy. Now the kids are grown and stepping into life on their own and i can move on to my more personal occult interests.

 

[Konsciencia]

Well, i am of the persuasion that my family now is my LOVE, so ive always helped them with the several layers of their existence, including the astral and made sure family life stayed healthy and happy. Now the kids are grown and stepping into life on their own and i can move on to my more personal occult interests.

Wonderful! That is great! With Love, and Light. Much success, and blessings to your family, and to you.