The "Price" of Magick

[whimsicalwarlock]

Hello Wizards,
I hope this finds you well.

Throughout magickal speculation and theory, is this idea that all magick comes at a cost.
Those fearful of magick will often tell you the cost is far greater than what you gain, or that you "lose your soul" in the process of using magick, especially when working with Demons. People even tell tales of Angels creating chaotic change that can often create severe consequences as part of the "payment"
Some say that you can do the work and that if you don't "pay" then nothing will happen, while others believe that you can still get results but that the "payment" will be "garnished" from your magickal results or in other mundane areas of your life.

Many modern grimoires include the reassurance that there is no "price" or "karmic backlash" while others say you need to "pay' the spirits for their work.
Is there any actual validity to any of these claims or are they simply just a superstition held by those who don't understand the magick? Have any of you ever done work and experienced this?

Personally I don't believe I've ever experienced this but I've only had my feet in the shallow end of the magickal pool.

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

There is a hefty price to the earnest practitioner, though the size of it depends on how secular & in-the-zeichguiest the practitioner is. Sometimes the price is so great it drives the practitioner permanently mad. The price, from my understanding, is solidity, safety, and normality. Magic demands transformation. Your comfortable spot hidden in the flow of the crowd and your old understanding of the nature of reality are changed until the day you die, if you die. Let me explain:

Imagine you've lived in a house for as long as you can remember, a house so big you can't reasonably think anything could exist beyond it, and everyone else in the house is of the same understanding, only schizophrenics think otherwise, only the ill reject the Dogma of the day.

Then, you you read hidden and not-talked-about books written by people who earnestly call themselves mystics, witches, and mages. As you read, you have a choice: to pay nothing and set the books down unphased, moving on to live & die in the house, scoffing at the absurdity of the books, or pay up with your old beliefs of assurance, security, knowledge, etc, and actually start to question the nature of your reality, going way past Descarte in doubt, and Alice in disorientation.

The walls of your house melt and you discover infinity expoding chaotically in all directions, your whole identity unraveling in a string of meaningless words, your awareness as unflickering and unique as a star in the vacuum of space, and everyone around you look like drooling amoeba reacting and straining under the currents and imagined dramas of their meaningless petri dish.

This is of course a dramatization just to get the point across. The more you give, the more you get. The power you acquire comes at the cost of the chains that make you feel safe.

 

[Anziel_Merkaba]

The only cost is what you're willing to give. Depending on the practices you follow, the cost could just be your time to learn and master the methods, or it could be the cost of ritual implements and objects of sacrifice, or it could be a certain type of social interaction.

It really all boils down to what sort of practices you are following and what sort of cost you are willing to pay. I'm a hermetic myself, and the only thing I've really had to pay is time and effort. I mean I have bought some stuff to make ritual implements back when I still needed tools for my practice, but now my practice is basically all mental work.

 

[Mannimarco]

Of course there are costs, but I haven't found any that resemble what people are usually meaning, or at least hinting at, when they use that term. Time obviously, and money for a lot of things. Not your soul when you die, or the life of your children, etc. If you're asking spirits to do work for you, you absolutely need to pay them, unless they refuse payment.

"Karmic backlash" has a ton of nonsense built up around the idea. Normal karma affects your next incarnation. If you do terrible things, you may face many kinds of consequences in this life as well. There is no karmic backlash for manifesting what you want, or punishing those who oppose you. However, if you believe there is, there definitely is. This is not a universal law, but your own manifestation. So many people believe this, it's taking on a life of its own, a kind of egregoric law. It would seem to me that if I was one of the so called elites, taking magick away from the common people would be a priority, and subtly promoting the idea of "karmic backlash" would be a decently effective way to do that. Just a thought

 

[OberonFromTheHills]

I see that phrase a lot and i think people take it too literally.

Magick costs something, but taking your car (fuel, time....), painting your room (paint, effort, tools....) too.

That basically means if you expect to perform magick just by shaking your nose or saying Wingardium Leviosa you will be disappointing.

Even energy work takes energy from other sources to be made.

 

[sherab]

If we think there's a cost, there will be. Reflecting what others have said, I think magic can be a destabilizing force--- destabilizing the sense of a solid self and solid reality (among other things).

I haven't seen a cost per se, but if one is transforming oneself, then inevitably unpleasant experiences may arise as a part of purification. But I wouldn't see this as a "cost" but an expiation. Some people may not be prepared for the process.

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

If we think there's a cost, there will be. Reflecting what others have said, I think magic can be a destabilizing force--- destabilizing the sense of a solid self and solid reality (among other things).

I haven't seen a cost per se, but if one is transforming oneself, then inevitably unpleasant experiences may arise as a part of purification. But I wouldn't see this as a "cost" but an expiation. Some people may not be prepared for the process.

I absolutely agree with you on that. Magick definitely is something theres no going back from once you've sincerely stepped into it. It just changes you/the world/your perception way too much. But I will say this definitely isn't a bad thing per se. Magick has been a destabilizing force for me and a stabilizing one. It has broken down things that honestly needed broken down and has also been good for helping me build up more within myself. I feel that magick has given me more control over me, especially considering I come from abuse and the effect that can have on you can be permanent, so i am definitely thankful that magick has this inate ability to destroy and remake you.
They say genius and insanity go hand-in-hand. I'd say magick is the third, in-hand with both genius and insanity, for better or worse.

Christopher Lee made a comment about how if you practice, "not only will you lose your mind, but you will also lose your soul" I don't necessarily agree that you lose your soul, but it can definitely make you lose your mind. lol But its just like anything else in nature. Snakes shed their skins, crabs shed their shells, trees shed their leaves. Everything changes. I see no reason why humans would be exempt from this fact of nature if they truly want to be connected to the flow of all things.

 

[enterthedragon369]

II'm glad I found this post and read through everything. Very helpful! post I've heard these things about the cost of Magick, and how Magick can make you go mad, possibly. I'm still new to Magick. I think practicing Magick for 7 years or so is still newbie status in a lot of ways. Anyway, for me, my magick is based around life goals and self-improvement.
I've changed into a different person altogether. I feel that I've lost 50% of old beliefs I used to have. My old beliefs have been replaced by new beliefs that I absolutely needed for transformation. But the process was awfully painful! And to me, the difficulties involved with successful and positive transformation can be hair raising, and the problems come in when a person is not ready for change. The inner changes we ask for can come at a pace we're not ready for or that we never will be ready for. Let's say a person does magick and gets a job they have no degree for but the interviewer of a company has faith in them, and lets them start an internship to learn the job.. Are they ready for all this ?...because this position they get through magick is going to come with new issues, and possible new problems.

What if someone does a ritual that will help them find out who is working against them? And after a few months, they clearly find out with proofs that they were adopted and their adopted mother always hated them. Well, they would need to hang on to their mental state because wow! ...what a disturbing revelation.

 

[Shade]

Ehhh, imo the only price you actually pay is falling out of alignment with your true self, you cannot sell your soul, the only thing that harms a soul is fear and fear can be overcome, I don’t think there is an actual way to permanently damage the soul.
The price you pay is giving the other person your energy and power when it would be better used to harness your craft to exceed beyond the limitation of the petty thought “oh this person harmed me l do spell” that spell would be much better used to harness energy to exceed beyond rather than to sink to their level.
just my two cents

 

[Asteriskos]

Here's a link that "may" be of interest? It illustrates that there's often a "price" we pay in the "mundane" world for practicing magic too!
It's from the Old White Dragon Magazine, but the principles are still valid.

Article:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

Here's a link that "may" be of interest? It illustrates that there's often a "price" we pay in the "mundane" world for practicing magic too!
It's from the Old White Dragon Magazine, but the principles are still valid.

Article:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is a very well thought out response and I have to say I absolutely agree. Very good read.

 

[drumways]

Magick definitely seems to come at some degree of cost to one's connection to the mundane. But to me, the the mundane seems to come at the cost of connection to magick, romantic curiosity of the world, self, and the growing community of people who are into this kind of stuff. It feels like you sell your magick for the mundane life, or your mundane life for magick.

Although, magick and the inner work and whole "know thyself" has seemed to make me a better non-magick world person too. I feel like I've noticed improvements on understanding people, society's little "in/out group" social coding, how to be present, etc.
I do a lot of fill-in stuff with the local honky tonk old heads and have thought it might be funny to do some pseudo mask work where I enchant bolo tie or something to help me not stick out like a sore thumb or protect me from the tough guy energy some of the audiences or bar patrons I deal with.

Overall I feel that magick has taken the inevitable cost of doing life and kind of hyper-focused what exactly it is that I'm paying for.

Something that just occurred to me, and I'm going to butcher explaining this, but along the lines of "the price of Magick is mundanity":
On a different scale, it almost seems like a lot of magick is powered by the energy of mundanity. Learning about Magick feels enchanting but in execution most magic involves some amount of putting in mundane effort like study, memorization, practice, etc - and/or we pay with actual items for sacrifice, offering, or ritual consumption (or burning, etc), many of which non-magick users would consider just junk mundane stuff like rocks, smelly plants, etc.

 

[Morell]

There is definitely price, but it's no tragedy.
For my two cents: every day you have to decide what you do. No matter how much or little you want to do, day still has 24 hours.
Meaning that when you choose to do one thing, you might not have time to do another one.

 

[drumways]

There is definitely price, but it's no tragedy.
For my two cents: every day you have to decide what you do. No matter how much or little you want to do, day still has 24 hours.
Meaning that when you choose to do one thing, you might not have time to do another one.

I had to google it because I retained little from college, but opportunity cost and time cost. I agree with your words.

 

[Dascent]

Magic is priceless and I'll try to keep it as short as possible and distilled as much as possible when sharing my perspective.
Some individuals might already know or feel something similar with this.
Magic doesn't cost a thing, it is older than earth itself, it is the very nature of all things, it is a form of energy and less understood technology based on manipulation of energy.... because all is made out of energy. From energy of one's thought, idea, will, desire, affirmation to its physical manifestation.

What has a price is action and effect, action and consequence, what you put out is what you receive, karmic law, law of attraction, law of correspondence, threefold law, "where your focus goes, energy flows..." ... now scientists kind of catching up and figure expressions of magic out and name it "the string theory" ... entanglement, double slit experiment....

When one will evolve enough and be lite enough to exceed the boundaries of fear based beliefs, religion, spirituality, gnosticism can glimpse at the bigger picture and see things from multiple perspectives at once.

True magic requires as less as possible because it works with lesser density and all these systems already knew that (And God said, Let there be light: and there was light). The creation is spoken word, frequency and sound vibration but what is missing? Intention, the energy of affirmation.
One only can do magic if first think, will and affirm.

I do not want to offend anyone, this is my own opinion, my own path, my own truth and reality I experience.

 

[Asteriskos]

I do not want to offend anyone, this is my own opinion, my own path, my own truth and reality I experience.

Don't see how you might offend anyone with your honest opinion. We all should be able to express that here!

 

[SHUMA-GORATH]

There is always a price

There is reasons why many groups do charity/fundraiser/etc. it is to offload a karma debt

Example Royal Order of Jesters are pure evil. Freemason/Shriners pay the debt off through charity/fundraiser/etc

Another example is Bloodlines having kids with special needs etc

 

[Dascent]

There is always a price

There is reasons why many groups do charity/fundraiser/etc. it is to offload a karma debt

Example Royal Order of Jesters are pure evil. Freemason/Shriners pay the debt off through charity/fundraiser/etc

Another example is Bloodlines having kids with special needs etc

That's not the Magic's demanded price, that's simply the human ugliness reflected back.
What you put out is what you get... The Threefold law or The Law of Three popular among wicca practitioners.

In my opinion this is how I see it works:
In order to bypass the karmic debt --- basically to play with negative intentions "harming other entities" and not receive back the same negative energy is to make the subject of bad intention to agree and accept what's coming to them.
How it is done? Simple, it is out in the open.
Pay attention at Bill Gates agenda for humanity --- "by 2030 we need to reduce population" ... his words and people say, "hey, he can't do that... that's conspiracy theory" <= because one didn't objected, by default agreed ...
Why do you think there is this saying (many don't know) "I affirm myself as suveran entity"
So, a conspiracy becomes an active action against other human beings, therefore no longer a conspiracy.
No negative entity can interact with a positive entity without an agreement, be it a conscious or unconscious agreement.

The fundraiser, donations and public charity acts... emmm, comes with empowering one's image, where focus goes, energy flows and there's way more behind these acts than I am willing to share at this moment.

The universe doesn't know negation "No" ... say "I am poor", the universe will agree with you and offer you bunch of opportunities to match that statement and the energy you express.
"You say you are poor?! All right, here's the context which makes your vibration feel at home, I am supporting you all the way, here's the poor environment you asked for!"

By the same concept, one who is practicing magic with clear conscious and heart in service of all and under Divine Grace then one will attract the same positive energy.
Why seams that dark energy and black magic is more powerful and popular among practitioners?
There are many reasons and here are a couple of them:
- Because of the collective consciousness which for a long period of time attached a negative context to the word and definition of witchcraft, which was associated with evil, with sin, with negative experiences.
Christianity played an important role in that manipulation because fear based beliefs are the tools of mass control.

• Another reason is the idea of segregation. It is much more easier to gain control of small groups of individuals rather than trying with large masses. And presenting the negative energy, demons, dark spirits destroying others and obeying human master is much more appealing than angels helping your neighbor. Vanity vs Compassion... If you show your compassion and expect something in return like to be praised becomes vanity, external validation... doing "good" just to receive attention and such... so, the human nature chose (for a long period of time) the darkness, even doing bad things in name of good, but still counts as bad..
• Another reason is much more harder to grasp as it comes from a transgenerational/spiritual agreement. To learn some lessons.

Anyway, I'm not here to educate anyone or change anyone's opinions so I'll stop now.
Words, intentions, definitions are very important.

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

That's not the Magic's demanded price, that's simply the human ugliness reflected back.
What you put out is what you get... The Threefold law or The Law of Three popular among wicca practitioners.

In my opinion this is how I see it works:
In order to bypass the karmic debt --- basically to play with negative intentions "harming other entities" and not receive back the same negative energy is to make the subject of bad intention to agree and accept what's coming to them.
How it is done? Simple, it is out in the open.
Pay attention at Bill Gates agenda for humanity --- "by 2030 we need to reduce population" ... his words and people say, "hey, he can't do that... that's conspiracy theory" <= because one didn't objected, by default agreed ...
Why do you think there is this saying (many don't know) "I affirm myself as suveran entity"
So, a conspiracy becomes an active action against other human beings, therefore no longer a conspiracy.
No negative entity can interact with a positive entity without an agreement, be it a conscious or unconscious agreement.

The fundraiser, donations and public charity acts... emmm, comes with empowering one's image, where focus goes, energy flows and there's way more behind these acts than I am willing to share at this moment.

The universe doesn't know negation "No" ... say "I am poor", the universe will agree with you and offer you bunch of opportunities to match that statement and the energy you express.
"You say you are poor?! All right, here's the context which makes your vibration feel at home, I am supporting you all the way, here's the poor environment you asked for!"

By the same concept, one who is practicing magic with clear conscious and heart in service of all and under Divine Grace then one will attract the same positive energy.
Why seams that dark energy and black magic is more powerful and popular among practitioners?
There are many reasons and here are a couple of them:
- Because of the collective consciousness which for a long period of time attached a negative context to the word and definition of witchcraft, which was associated with evil, with sin, with negative experiences.
Christianity played an important role in that manipulation because fear based beliefs are the tools of mass control.

• Another reason is the idea of segregation. It is much more easier to gain control of small groups of individuals rather than trying with large masses. And presenting the negative energy, demons, dark spirits destroying others and obeying human master is much more appealing than angels helping your neighbor. Vanity vs Compassion... If you show your compassion and expect something in return like to be praised becomes vanity, external validation... doing "good" just to receive attention and such... so, the human nature chose (for a long period of time) the darkness, even doing bad things in name of good, but still counts as bad..
• Another reason is much more harder to grasp as it comes from a transgenerational/spiritual agreement. To learn some lessons.

Anyway, I'm not here to educate anyone or change anyone's opinions so I'll stop now.
Words, intentions, definitions are very important.

I like your perspective on this. So, in your opinion, if somebody was genuinely wanting to "negate" their bad karma, would it be fruitless for them to do kind things?

 

[Dascent]

I like your perspective on this. So, in your opinion, if somebody was genuinely wanting to "negate" their bad karma, would it be fruitless for them to do kind things?

To buy off one's sins is only for human conscious but not for the soul.
Works like this, there is the human consciousness, the analytical mind and the unconscious mind. Yes we can fool the analytical mind, the conscious mind with charity events, with earthly activities, donations but all that comes from a place of fear based belief - remorse, heavy consciousness, clear consciousness terms are used for this but for the soul is nothing like that. Heaven and Hell reside in the very same location so to speak and we are the ones building our Have or our Hell.

Your idea "if somebody was genuinely wanting to "negate" their bad karma, would it be fruitless for them to do kind things?"
Karma means action and the negative karma or bad karma is an opportunity for the one who experience it to change, to transform the negative meaning throughout the action reflecting or manifesting in a positive way.

Giving money to charity clears a bit of consciousness but if what you put out doesn't come right away back, in the cycle of life it will, not this life? ok, in the next life experience... from here the idea of "transgenerational trauma"
Many individuals attached to karma a bad rep but it is nothing bad or something to fear.
Do good with open heart, good things will come to you.
Do bad things with a heavy conscious, more negative energy is attracted.

Looking a bit into conspiracy theories, there are (allegedly) individuals who want to live forever, some are afraid of the "hell" they have created for themselves and prolong their"human" experience through any means necessary, genetics and magic being a popular method....

Some cultures have a belief in which an individual consumes another individual's sins (called a sin eater), the christianity uses the absolution of all sins but all that are not for the soul but for the ego, for the flesh, bones and stupidity because, according to the very same christian belief the lord Jesus Christ sacrificed on that cross and for our absolution, he paid for our sins.
The soul's perspective is a bit more fun and less dramatic.
For the soul there is no sin, there is experience.
Dark night of the Soul is infact the Dark night of the Ego.
The soul does not suffer, does not cry, doesn't get wounded, cracked, splintered, shattered.... The soul is immortal, it is energy emanated from the Source of All There Is with the purpose of experiencing.
Yes for the human is a good idea to have and experience fear based beliefs because the negative experiences adds diversity, adds a whole new range of experiences which cannot be experienced if there was only "love and light".
Of course negative karma must have a bad rep because it serve the purpose of painting life experience in so many colors.
I know there is an universe where fear based beliefs don't exist or don't manifest like they do in this universe and if you have a little bit of curiosity and try to imagine such a life it is plain boring, evolution is linear, no reset button.
Karma is a tool, an opportunity, a reflection of the energy we emanate. It is like a mirror which when you throw a punch, you get a punch... when you smile, the mirror will have to smile back to you... (Bashar's analogy with the mirror is cool)
Again, dear old universe doesn't say "No"... never.

Soul agreements are also important. No karmic stuff in there.
"Under Divine Grace for the greatest good of All" that is also bypassing "karmic retribution" when some healers send energy to another individual.

I've typed a lot of nothing, sorry about that. It could of been less...