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on archive.org looking up (The Vision and The Voice Notebook Edition) by user Obsidian418 links to a website with Nazi propaganda... Im not trying to say anything negative about this person but Im genuinely interested in starting a dialogue and hearing what other peoples opinions are about this...
I am down with folks like Miguer Serrano, Nimrod DeRosario, et.al. If you're not careful, you might learn something from them. DM me when you get enough posts to do so.
on archive.org looking up (The Vision and The Voice Notebook Edition) by user Obsidian418 links to a website with Nazi propaganda... Im not trying to say anything negative about this person but Im genuinely interested in starting a dialogue and hearing what other peoples opinions are about this...
This is a semi-amusing post. Someone posted a book online and their profile linked to a website that promoted political beliefs. OK... I'm not sure what is supposed to be said in response!
If you're surprised by the idea that someone interested in Thelema might also hold to National Socialism, that was going on before the party even got into power in 1933. There are some links between German Thelemite orgnisations such as Fraternitas Saturni (which was not generally an organisation sympathetic to Hitler) and the early NSDAP and there are many, many parallels between Thelemite ideas and those which were promoted by the party. For the latter, see Gerald Suster's Hitler and the Age of Horus/Hitler: The Occult Messiah. Suster makes the argument, using very in-depth readings of Liber AL, that the Third Reich was the first pang of the New Aeon coming into being.
on archive.org looking up (The Vision and The Voice Notebook Edition) by user Obsidian418 links to a website with Nazi propaganda... Im not trying to say anything negative about this person but Im genuinely interested in starting a dialogue and hearing what other peoples opinions are about this...
It’s not crazy that nazis and communists would associate with thelemites and vise versa.
If I recall correctly Crowley tried to submit thelema to the nazi government for a state religion.
It also plays extremely well with the age of Horus and the energies being really full of conflict and change.
Very well. Are we to then apply this same interpretation and line of reasoning to 9/11 vis à vis S.K. Bain's "The Most Dangerous Book in the World"? Could we not very easily attribute : Boaz broken, Jachin gone...for the love of BABALON ("The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O") as reference to said event? Do we then accept this in the same spirit that Nazi Germany and the Holocaust seem to be accepted here?
Very well. Are we to then apply this same interpretation and line of reasoning to 9/11 vis à vis S.K. Bain's "The Most Dangerous Book in the World"? Could we not very easily attribute : Boaz broken, Jachin gone...for the love of BABALON ("The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O") as reference to said event? Do we then accept this in the same spirit that Nazi Germany and the Holocaust seem to be accepted here?
1) what is Bain's line of reasoning? A brief summary would be helpful.
2) where is "here"? (Your closing "...seem to be accepted here") Is here the site OP references? My post? Wintruz? Parallax's? All three? WF itself?
In short, your point is elusive.
I tried searching Obsidian418 and I didn't get any relevant results, except for this very thread. I just know its not the nazi number, that's 1488. I haven't looked through the book itself except for skimming.
I think I was going to make another point, but forgot it. Forgive me, I have a headcold.
I tried searching Obsidian418 and I didn't get any relevant results, except for this very thread. I just know its not the nazi number, that's 1488. I haven't looked through the book itself except for skimming.
I think I was going to make another point, but forgot it. Forgive me, I have a headcold.
88 is a number used in Nazi circles. Two 8's for H.H.: Heil You-Know-Who.
1488 is associated with the 1980's group in the U.S., The Order. (Aka, Die Bruder Schweigen [sic]) It refers to Robert Jay Matthews' 14 Words and David Eden Lane's 88 Propositions. As such, the number's use postdates German National Socialism by at least three decades. The Order was pretty much quashed with Matthews' death in an FBI shootout on Whidbey Island, WA on 8 DEC '84. Lane died in Florence Supermax in 2007. There is an occult novel online out there called "Return To Whidbey," but it deals with later fictional events.
A book in four parts matching your description has already been posted here. It's a single page scan, as far as I remember the one on archive.org is double-paged.
1) what is Bain's line of reasoning? A brief summary would be helpful.
2) where is "here"? (Your closing "...seem to be accepted here") Is here the site OP references? My post? Wintruz? Parallax's? All three? WF itself?
In short, your point is elusive.
1. Not Bain's line of reasoning. His book is basically a detailed analysis of the numerology particular to 9/11, and other related elements thereof, that correlates them to Liber AL and themes throughout Crowley's writing. Similar to Suster's analysis of the Third Reich and its activities.
I was referring to the line of reasoning that asserts that 9/11 was another direct manifestation of the energies of the Aeon of Horus coming into being. That it is on par with the Third Reich in this respect.
And "here" refers to the responsia to the OP, particularly yours, which, by their tone, seem to assert, without overt reference thereunto, that both of these events are to be understood in light of Liber LXV 1 : 56 - 65 and its commentary.
1. Not Bain's line of reasoning. His book is basically a detailed analysis of the numerology particular to 9/11, and other related elements thereof, that correlates them to Liber AL and themes throughout Crowley's writing. Similar to Suster's analysis of the Third Reich and its activities.
I was referring to the line of reasoning that asserts that 9/11 was another direct manifestation of the energies of the Aeon of Horus coming into being. That it is on par with the Third Reich in this respect.
And "here" refers to the responsia to the OP, particularly yours, which, by their tone, seem to assert, without overt reference thereunto, that both of these events are to be understood in light of Liber LXV 1 : 56 - 65 and its commentary.
I am not well acquainted with the various Liber (Libri?). I read a lot of Thelema when I was getting into magick, but quite frankly find Crowley there confusing. He could be a first rate writer when he chose; here, he covered his footsteps for various reasons. So I didn't have either Liber XVI in particular in mind, not the Age of Horus in general. Personally, I take both the Reich and 9/11 as reactions to the onward tread of the Aeon of Kali Yuga. There is some overlap, though, it seems . The big difference is I think that conditions on earth are going to become far more, let us say, "decidedly inconvenient" for far longer than Thelema seems to imply.
I am not well acquainted with the various Liber (Libri?). I read a lot of Thelema when I was getting into magick, but quite frankly find Crowley there confusing. He could be a first rate writer when he chose; here, he covered his footsteps for various reasons. So I didn't have either Liber XVI in particular in mind, not the Age of Horus in general. Personally, I take both the Reich and 9/11 as reactions to the onward tread of the Aeon of Kali Yuga. There is some overlap, though, it seems . The big difference is I think that conditions on earth are going to become far more, let us say, "decidedly inconvenient" for far longer than Thelema seems to imply.
The interactions of Kali Yuga and the Aeon of Horus are interesting and not mutually exclusive.
A lot of Thelemites think that the Aeon of Horus follows that of Osiris in a linear history. Yet it's thereby that Thelemites both undermine their cause and apply Osirian perspectives to a world which doesn't really hold them (666 loved Islamic and Buddhist lands though neither really had Osirian perspectives, even in his lifetime). This idea of three neat Aeons is itself Osirian and largely derives from Joachim of Fiore's attempt to conceive of world history as belonging to three epochs of Father (Judaism), Son (Christianity) and Holy Ghost (the coming age of sexless hippies shudder).
If the Aeon of Horus is presented as a major world break, an Equinox of the Gods in the linear sense, it obscures everything that came before Crowley and that's possibly the intention (a genius is a plagiarist who doesn't reveal their sources) though what came before Crowley, what influenced the Victorian England he was born into, is essential to understand him. For example, figures like Rimbaud and Nietzsche, both perfect Thelemites according to Thelema's own tenants, can be neatly packaged into the Aeon of Osiris and forgotten or else considered foreshadowers of the coming Aeon (666 literally calls Nietzsche a "prophet", not a title 666 threw around lightly). That 666 gave a name to mindsets that existed before he was born is a reality that Thelemites don't have to grapple with, even if Liber AL gives the game away:
I would say then that the initiated view of Aeons is to consider them qualities of consciousness. For your "average Joe" in the West this probably is a fraying Osirian worldview where there is an inherited tension around the transience of things and the secret hope that they're not really transient, that they'll return one day ("He is Coming with the Clouds"). A more sophisticated approach recognises that what passes isn't coming back and so there's no enmeshment with the transient (a Buddhist perspective). A more sophisticated approach again engages with the transient precisely because it isn't coming back and so it offers a glimpse into the numinous. This "indulgence" characterises Thelema and the modern Western Left Hand Path so influenced by Thelema.
The interactions of Kali Yuga and the Aeon of Horus are interesting and not mutually exclusive.
A lot of Thelemites think that the Aeon of Horus follows that of Osiris in a linear history. Yet it's thereby that Thelemites both undermine their cause and apply Osirian perspectives to a world which doesn't really hold them (666 loved Islamic and Buddhist lands though neither really had Osirian perspectives, even in his lifetime). This idea of three neat Aeons is itself Osirian and largely derives from Joachim of Fiore's attempt to conceive of world history as belonging to three epochs of Father (Judaism), Son (Christianity) and Holy Ghost (the coming age of sexless hippies shudder).
If the Aeon of Horus is presented as a major world break, an Equinox of the Gods in the linear sense, it obscures everything that came before Crowley and that's possibly the intention (a genius is a plagiarist who doesn't reveal their sources) though what came before Crowley, what influenced the Victorian England he was born into, is essential to understand him. For example, figures like Rimbaud and Nietzsche, both perfect Thelemites according to Thelema's own tenants, can be neatly packaged into the Aeon of Osiris and forgotten or else considered foreshadowers of the coming Aeon (666 literally calls Nietzsche a "prophet", not a title 666 threw around lightly). That 666 gave a name to mindsets that existed before he was born is a reality that Thelemites don't have to grapple with, even if Liber AL gives the game away:
I would say then that the initiated view of Aeons is to consider them qualities of consciousness. For your "average Joe" in the West this probably is a fraying Osirian worldview where there is an inherited tension around the transience of things and the secret hope that they're not really transient, that they'll return one day ("He is Coming with the Clouds"). A more sophisticated approach recognises that what passes isn't coming back and so there's no enmeshment with the transient (a Buddhist perspective). A more sophisticated approach again engages with the transient precisely because it isn't coming back and so it offers a glimpse into the numinous. This "indulgence" characterises Thelema and the modern Western Left Hand Path so influenced by Thelema.
Mostly I am not particularly versed in what Crowley meant by the Age of Horus. Which is a 14 word way to say I am ignorant here. Maybe I overreacted to the spate of Thelema magi there in the late forties through early sixties declaring a new aeon about as often as
Apple launched a new I-Phone in this century.
The transient isn't coming back. I am minded of something I read in Stephen Flowers this summer: What we hope for cannot too closely resemble what was beforetimes quashed. Real enemies have long memories.
Mostly I am not particularly versed in what Crowley meant by the Age of Horus. Which is a 14 word way to say I am ignorant here. Maybe I overreacted to the spate of Thelema magi there in the late forties through early sixties declaring a new aeon about as often as
Apple launched a new I-Phone in this century.
The transient isn't coming back. I am minded of something I read in Stephen Flowers this summer: What we hope for cannot too closely resemble what was beforetimes quashed. Real enemies have long memories.
The age of Horus is suppose to be the aeon of cataclysmic change and such in preparation for some hippy gay race communism aeon after it. At least that’s my take away, maybe the age of the daughter isn’t how I image it.
The age of Horus is suppose to be the aeon of cataclysmic change and such in preparation for some hippy gay race communism aeon after it. At least that’s my take away, maybe the age of the daughter isn’t how I image it.
Crowley was never too specific. This was probably for tactical reasons: it's easier to draw flocks of followers if you let them color-in the future in whatever hues they wish. Gurdjieff seems to have been much the same: attract the idiots to finance the gifted few. Though these few would not necessarily be the pupils who climbed to fame in their own right.
My comments are responsia to all of the replies on this thread.
It is a mistake to assume that all is Love, Light, and Liberty according to popular understanding of the terms. We are not dealing with ANY form of Xtian definition. I would, perversely perhaps, refer you to Susan Atkins and Charles Manson for another definition of Love and Liberty, for example.
I hesitate to use the phrase "Collateral Damage", but, f*ck it, I shall nevertheless. Buildings will fall along with empires long established as the Aeon of Force and Fire is birthed through Nuit (who is, according to all reports, the Ancient Serpent in one half of it's division).
And, yes, all is in correspondence with Kali Durga for those concerned.
But let us not ever forget that we are of The Beast, The Star and the Snake.
Refer to Kenneth Grant and others if you need clarification and practical instruction.
Earth is ripe....let us take of the Vintage and Rejoice....
To quote a well-worn colloquialism....If one wants to make an omelette, it is necessary to break some eggs.
Let us assume a Viewpoint Averse and thereby Rejoice....human considerations be Damned for a Dog.
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My comments are responsia to all of the replies on this thread.
It is a mistake to assume that all is Love, Light, and Liberty according to popular understanding of the terms. We are not dealing with ANY form of Xtian definition. I would, perversely perhaps, refer you to Susan Atkins and Charles Manson for another definition of Love and Liberty, for example.
I hesitate to use the phrase "Collateral Damage", but, f*ck it, I shall nevertheless. Buildings will fall along with empires long established as the Aeon of Force and Fire is birthed through Nuit (who is, according to all reports, the Ancient Serpent in one half of it's division).
And, yes, all is in correspondence with Kali Durga for those concerned.
But let us not ever forget that we are of The Beast, The Star and the Snake.
Refer to Kenneth Grant and others if you need clarification and practical instruction.
Earth is ripe....let us take of the Vintage and Rejoice....
To quote a well-worn colloquialism....If one wants to make an omelette, it is necessary to break some eggs.
Let us assume a Viewpoint Averse and thereby Rejoice....human considerations be Damned for a Dog
I am not well acquainted with the various Liber (Libri?). I read a lot of Thelema when I was getting into magick, but quite frankly find Crowley there confusing. He could be a first rate writer when he chose; here, he covered his footsteps for various reasons. So I didn't have either Liber XVI in particular in mind, not the Age of Horus in general. Personally, I take both the Reich and 9/11 as reactions to the onward tread of the Aeon of Kali Yuga. There is some overlap, though, it seems . The big difference is I think that conditions on earth are going to become far more, let us say, "decidedly inconvenient" for far longer than Thelema seems to imply.
I'm choosing to reply to you personally along with my ersatz post because you have earned my respect with your erudition.
Of COURSE there is a correspondence with Kali Yuga. Dear G-D, man, look into the Kalas as, initially, revealed by Grant. You've got Austin Spare and many others to substantiate your perception.
Go further. Revel. Drink the blood, proverbially. Assume, always, that what is revealed is a gloss upon that which lurks beyond.
Perhaps you do not have your physically manifest Shakti from whom to receive. It is no odds. I'd wager that you most certainly have one in "imagination".
Go forth and drink of the Vintage.
The Harvest is Nigh and yet Unrevealed.
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Let me, in conclusion, ask this of Ye All :
If Xtianity saw the sacrifice and slaughter of its "saints"a great gain for the cause of their "Christ"....shall We Not rejoice in those Macrocosmic Events which indicate that, indeed, Another Order Entirely is coming forth in all of its Splendour?
Who bids me to weep? Who bids me to have compassion in contradiction of The Definition Already Given?
Do I contribute in order to Veil myself In the Sorrow of N.O.X.? Perhaps. But know ye well that I quaff of the Offering of Blood thereby attained.
The age of Horus is suppose to be the aeon of cataclysmic change and such in preparation for some hippy gay race communism aeon after it. At least that’s my take away, maybe the age of the daughter isn’t how I image it.
The "hippie gay race communist" idea had been proven to be a clever obscuration. I, again, refer you to the Manson idea of "love". It PERFECTLY embodies the Dove and the Serpent.
These "hippies" were....let's say... convenient. Read the 3rd part of Liber AL. It, most certainly, is NOT of that particular dispensation.
And...dare I even UTTER this ... the revelations in Liber 418 hint at an even MORE.... unconventional... revelation. Since you are familiar with the Kali Durga, I need only refer you to Lalita for correspondences.
I cannot emphasize enough that what is to come transcends all taboo and expectation. Do you REALLY think that the author of such things as "The Nameless Novel" would be anything other than the vessel for something utterly....BEYOND?
Prepare.
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In addition, I cannot emphasize enough a rather clever play on words in Liber 418 that has escaped the notice of most students. To wit, "Eternity is in travail of a Terrible Child; SHE shall bring forth an universe of Darkness, whence shall leap forth a spark that shall put HIS father to flight...."
Let's not be too quick to judge Transgenderism or other offshoots. Something....or SOMEONE....is arriving....in whichever manner...that shall manifest BOTH in ONE....and in a form that shatters the very idea of taboo....
A further reading of 418 may prove to be Illuminating in this respect.
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Furthermore, I would be remiss if I did not mention The Process Church of the Final Judgement in reference to this supposed love n light fest of the 60s. I cannot say much other than to refer you to the archive of their complete available materials, along with The Devil's Power on Annas-Archive (.org)
The fact that DeGrimston and his Scarlet Woman squirreled ONE Process away from Scientology is, ultimately, irrelevant. It Is what It Is, after all. And, as we know, ALL is not Aught....
Oh....and Skinny Puppy's album lyrics can't be dismissed, either.
Ha. What a dickhead. Anna Wickham was right when, at a party with Crowley and his wife and associates, she said "It should be in the British Museum - the phallus of the Master Therion, the Great Beast of Revelation - it is like an anchovy."
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