What do you define us as and our progress on the path?

[DiLoco_DelEted]

What do you define each grade of RHP schools as, and their progress on the path? Especially for the unititiated or self-initiated?
We can run into danger by comparing ourself to others, true, but its helpful to know what to expect at each level, even though Ive read quite a bit of Inner Order material.
My path in my 20s was interest in The Magus, The Golden Dawn, and The Satanic Bible. I eventually started with Wicca, and tried various low level books (Wicca for the Solitary Practitioner, Celtic Magic, Necronomicon, Satanic Bible. I broke away from fascination with LaVey after a dark force invaded my room one night.
In my 30s witchcraft, voodoo, and serious study of The Golden Dawn, even though other books had been acquired and sometimes used, such as Power of the Witch and Drawing Down The Moon.
In my 40's, I was invited into the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn for intiation twice, failing to reach it each time by natural accident or getting lost. I instead settled for the Self Initiation path, Builders of the Adytum correspondence, Fraternity of the Hidden Light correspondence, and finally Koetting's O.A.A.
Now in my 50s, dragged through hell and back, am trying to work with angels. Shemhamphoresh, Hoodoo/Candle work, Witchcraft, Low Magick, these are pretty much me now.
We have all had our trials, had to face certain fearful or terrifying events, we have had our will and faith tested severely, some of us have had to try crawling back, some of us completely lost.
So the question is, what defines us by grade, or at least Neophyte, Adept and Magus, and the common progress on your path?

 

[KjEno186]

I'm in my 50s also. Frankly I never understood the occult until very recently. I feel drawn towards the RHP. If there is indeed more than just this life, then I want to devote my years to understanding where I've been and where I may be next. I suppose my main goal in the RHP is spiritual, though there could eventually be "more." As a Jehovah's Witness from early childhood until my late 30s, I was taught that death meant non-existence, unless the ever benevolent (or malevolent and jealous) Jehovah decided you're worth resurrecting, either to heavenly life, a limited offer for 144,000 extra faithful, or in a future paradise Earth for the "great crowd." Becoming an atheist for the past 15 years didn't change my expectations much in that regard. I simply assumed that we'd all be dead sooner or later and never knew we existed ... but I digress.

So, how do I define my progress? I'm going to learn and put into practice what I can, trying very hard not to get ahead of myself. At the moment, Quareia seems to be the direction I will follow, having looked over their course materials, as it appears to be a solid foundation upon which I can build and adapt as needed later. I've read that a "lust for results" is quite counterproductive in magic. A part of my mind always wants fast and easy results, else it demands "we" stop doing whatever it is that feels so boring and uncomfortable. Quareia starts with "boring" meditation, which is exactly what I need to quiet that part of my mind which demands instant gratification.

It might help if I gave an example not directly related to magic: I always wanted to be a runner. I just knew it would be simply the best feeling in the world to run with ease and feel the wind on my body. I did so very much want that experience for such a long time. And now and then I'd take up running. It hardly felt good at all. I plodded along all hot and sweaty. My chest and legs and feet would ache. At least once I was actually getting worse, feeling very tired all the time. Whatever I was doing, it wasn't working!

Then, about a year ago I committed myself to running again. I wanted to eventually run marathons, if possible. Being able to compete in races would be nice, but even if I was the only one who knew how far I could go, that would still be enough for me. I started very slowly. In fact, for most of this past year I've been walking. I can now run a few miles at a 5 mile per hour pace. That doesn't sound like much to other people, but it means a lot to me. I set goals I can achieve in the short term, knowing the long term will take care of itself. For instance, I walked 100 miles during the month of March this year, something I'd never done before in my life.

Patience, slow but steady progress, and realistic expectations for my individual circumstances. I'm an Apprentice. As the Quareia course material says, "There is no clock ticking, and it is not a race." It might take me some time to get to the next level, but I'm OK with that. I hope you didn't mind me blathering on about all this!

 

[Yazata]

Books like Buckland's Witchcraft and Kraig's Modern Magick are great for solitaries because they are in the form of lessons building you up.
Koetting's OAA as well. Once you have completed these (or similar) you have to develop your own ways based on your interests. Grades are only of importance if you really are a member of the particular group, where it really is just a status thing.

 

[auza121]

So the question is, what defines us by grade, or at least Neophyte, Adept and Magus, and the common progress on your path?

personally I would define it by inner contacts not human justification. The goal is contact with higher intelligences that then commune with you to higher means. As crowley would say the end goal is knowledge and communion with the HGA. The practice is meant in full to lead you to this.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Well, thank you all for your responses.
It is indeed a journey.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

By the way, more comments are still welcome, Id like to see this become a large thread.
My bane has always been meditation, not that I can't do it, but as the first responder nailed it, it wants its way all the time.
Lesson format I really dig, it reminds me of correspondence courses in a good way. I guess there is where occult secrets lie for the most part, the need to wait for the next lesson rather than liberally getting ahead of ourselves and spoiling the ending potentially.
Lessons are easy for me to digest, small enough to be workable, rather than bombarding the student with info. Sorta like me, taking on ten books at a time.
I would like to know from Adepts Magi and those in between, how did you know when it was time to leave your comfortable grade (or uncomfortable grade), and move on to the next?
Outside of a grade system like Golden Dawn, Thelma, Order of the Red Dragon, etc, how is progress then defined, and when its had all requirements met to move on to more material?
For me, a realist, I want to see proof of something working. A lot of time I didn't see magic results, which were what I asked for, but not what I expected them to be.
And how about for those where you went to advance but were turned back, what were the lessons or info you needed to master to satiate the guard?

 

[KjEno186]

Sorta like me, taking on ten books at a time.

Oh man, that is SO true of where I'm at right now! I actually have to force myself to NOT read most of what I've gotten so far and concentrate in a meaningful way on certain texts. I know I'll do myself no real benefit by rushing through a book simply because it's in my possession.

For me, a realist, I want to see proof of something working. A lot of time I didn't see magic results, which were what I asked for, but not what I expected them to be.

I can relate to this. One big reason I left religion was because I was told how important prayer was. For me, prayer didn't do shit! (hope a bit of cussing doesn't upset anyone) I prayed to god when I had troubles in my life, and when things didn't go as I thought they should have, I assumed quite rationally that prayer was useless, unless I was simply talking to myself. Now, I've always had a great imagination, and I know it's quite common for people to have inner conversations all the time. I discovered decades ago that my mother would mutter things to herself while she was cleaning. I'm quite sure it wasn't prayer since it sounded more like griping.

How will I know if meditation "works"? I know that various authors describe certain feelings they have as a result of meditation, but will I have them too? If I spend a meditation period in constant expectation of some kind of hoped for result, could I be sabotaging myself from the beginning? And just how does one describe abstract "results" anyway? I've been keeping a dream diary for about a month now, and something I've noticed is how difficult it can be to describe the places in my dreams. They often feel like something, but I don't have the words to describe it. Words, even those most artfully composed, are limited in what they can communicate. So, when a meditation guru says they felt such-and-so after doing a certain practice, how can I really know what they mean by that? Maybe I need to put expectation on the back burner and just follow the practice. What happens, happens.

And what about that which is beyond just meditation? I'm definitely not one to go and spend money I don't have on setting up an elaborate personal temple. Yes, something has to work before I invest at that level. In the mean time, I can manage like a poor shaman if need be!

 

[Konsciencia]

Oh man, that is SO true of where I'm at right now! I actually have to force myself to NOT read most of what I've gotten so far and concentrate in a meaningful way on certain texts. I know I'll do myself no real benefit by rushing through a book simply because it's in my possession.


I can relate to this. One big reason I left religion was because I was told how important prayer was. For me, prayer didn't do shit! (hope a bit of cussing doesn't upset anyone) I prayed to god when I had troubles in my life, and when things didn't go as I thought they should have, I assumed quite rationally that prayer was useless, unless I was simply talking to myself. Now, I've always had a great imagination, and I know it's quite common for people to have inner conversations all the time. I discovered decades ago that my mother would mutter things to herself while she was cleaning. I'm quite sure it wasn't prayer since it sounded more like griping.

How will I know if meditation "works"? I know that various authors describe certain feelings they have as a result of meditation, but will I have them too? If I spend a meditation period in constant expectation of some kind of hoped for result, could I be sabotaging myself from the beginning? And just how does one describe abstract "results" anyway? I've been keeping a dream diary for about a month now, and something I've noticed is how difficult it can be to describe the places in my dreams. They often feel like something, but I don't have the words to describe it. Words, even those most artfully composed, are limited in what they can communicate. So, when a meditation guru says they felt such-and-so after doing a certain practice, how can I really know what they mean by that? Maybe I need to put expectation on the back burner and just follow the practice. What happens, happens.

And what about that which is beyond just meditation? I'm definitely not one to go and spend money I don't have on setting up an elaborate personal temple. Yes, something has to work before I invest at that level. In the mean time, I can manage like a poor shaman if need be!

Expectations lead to failures. Let me explain what I mean, once I was so wanted to Astral Project, and nothing really happened during the time I was expecting results. After a long journey of expectations, and really pushing myself for this. I decided to stop with the expectations, and the first thing I did, was surrender to The Universe and let It take over. Once I did that, The Universe took me on few Journeys Out of my Body. However, not all the time am I aware that I'm Astral Projecting, meaning that it is up to The Universe for me to leave my body. At least, In my own truth. Instead I go with intentions.

 

[Roma]

What do you define each grade of RHP schools as, and their progress on the path? Especially for the unititiated or self-initiated?

I will assume that you know rather than believe that Life has meaning. This knowing occurs when all the grades of physical and etheric matter within the human system have been controlled.

Then it is necessary to learn control of the emotional grades.


The lowest emotional subplane is characterised by the desire to be individual e.g. Mohawk haircut with glue

The next is typified by the desire to attract others. This is closely related to jealousy.

Then is the desire to be alone in facing problems.

The first of the higher desires is commonly seen as the desire for mastery of the personality.

Then is the desire to be all things to all people. Women suffer from this more than men because women have more roles.

The desire for Good is based on the hope that there will be one set of things/decisions that can please or be good for everyone.

The highest emotional level is typified by the desire for the oneness of all.


By that stage the junior initiate has already started establishing control of mental levels