[Opinion] Which occult orders so not practice sodomy?

[techniquea2z]

Title.

 

[cormundum]

Supposedly the GD doesn't. Rosicrucians don't. AA doesn't. That's just an OTO thing.

 

[silencewaits]

Do you mean which ones don't require engaging in homosexual acts as a requirement of participation? None of them do--as far as I know.

 

[cormundum]

Do you mean which ones don't require engaging in homosexual acts as a requirement of participation? None of them do--as far as I know.

Probably in reference to the higher OTO grades where receptive anal sex is required for initiation (degree XI. In the Fraternitas Saturni it was period sex, lol).

 

[silencewaits]

From LIBER DCCXIII, XI Emblems And A Hint of Immortality:

"IX and XI operations can be combined id est: Traditionally charged
sexual fluids are collected and administered in-vitro to others via anal
infusion, forming linkages with certain chrakras which could not otherwise
be stimulated maximally, thus providing full arousal of the Kundalini. This
can be accomplished by the purely heterosexual acts of the Priest and the
Priestess – uniting Nuit with Amoun, the negative and concealed. If you are
'walking in darkness', do not try to make the sun rise by self-sacrifice, but
wait in confidence for the dawn, and enjoy the pleasures of the night
meanwhile. Per Vas Nefandum has often been perceived as unstable, unsafe
and of a negative nature. In most cases operations of this type will only
create Qliphotic phantasms, which the serious Adept has very little time or
energy to lend his experimentation."

 

[cormundum]

From LIBER DCCXIII, XI Emblems And A Hint of Immortality:

Huh. Makes you wonder why everybody's going on about the OTO guys buggering each other all the time for that XI degree initiation...

 

[silencewaits]

Oh no, there are those who sure do practice homosexual versions of that initiation. I think the whole thing is utterly ridiculous and rooted in the mystification of Crowley's sexual escapades--but the O.T.O. doesn't believe in compelling anyone to do so. There are heterosexual versions of the rite, but it is technically sodomy; I believe OP used sodomy in reference to homosexuality which is why I asked for clarification. I am not a Thelemite, someone more knowledgeable than I could probably clarify.

 

[virginia24]

From LIBER DCCXIII, XI Emblems And A Hint of Immortality:

“If you are 'walking in darkness', do not try to make the sun rise by self-sacrifice, but
wait in confidence for the dawn, and enjoy the pleasures of the night.”

For some reason it reminds me of a Midsummer Night’s Dream Act 1, Scene 1 lol it just swaps arranged marriage for anal sex:

“Whether, if you yield not to your father's choice,
You can endure the livery of a nun,
For aye to be in shady cloister
mewed,
To live a barren sister all your life,
Chanting faint hymns to the cold fruitless moon.
Thrice blessed they that master so their blood,
To undergo such maiden pilgrimage;
But earthlier happy is the rose distilled
Than that which, withering on the virgin thorn,
Grows, lives, and dies in single blessedness.”

But for what it’s worth, I fully support people having the sex they want, as long as it’s consensual. However, it certainly should never be a requirement of a magical lodge…

 

[FireBorn]

Interesting topic. Even though I personally dont jive with the OTO, I believe they were very serious about what they were doing. IM sure some did get the Kundalini activation, otherwise the practice would have been scrapped rather quickly.

Intention mattered. The ritual mattered. It wasn't just anal sex. It wasn't just profaning Christianity and the framework, or kink larping for giggles. It was a rite. A whole thing. I'm sure those who participated felt something (yeah yeah in more ways than one) profound. Spiritual impact was made, exactly what? I cant say for sure.

This also wasn't for new people to get into the lodge, or group. It was further down the line. Not everyone took part in it, and if I am remembering correctly, there weren't a lot of witnesses (yep sometimes it was witnessed) or documentation on it. Kenneth Grant wrote something about it I think, hell I dont know.

I also cant square how Crowley was playing around with the Kundalini aspect. It doesnt fit in with all his other teachings in Thelema at all. He was about control over, not surrender to. Just seems odd to me. Then again we all get into things that might not align with us later on our paths.

Back to the OP: I dont believe you have to practice Sodomy in any practice. Its always a choice. I could be wrong (look out!! )

 

[MorganBlack]

Ex (ish) OTO here. No sodomy for me, nor was it required.

There's usually a lot of talk about sex magic - but more along the lines of Louis T. Culling and Paschal Beverly Randolph. I can put up with the sometimes excessive dead guru worship, but there was far too much formal focus on performance of the Gnostic Mass, IMHO.

The best thing about the order is an attitude toward ritual that's more both feet /sink or swim / punk rock stance. I was active in the 1990's , before leaving to do my own thing. The order gave me a sounding board as explored goetia with a few similarly minded members. This back when in goetia was super fringe in occult circles, even among the "hardcore" OTO.

At the time the order helped me get my thinking in place and take those first steps. Good folks. Now we have the internet, for good and ill.