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As the great German playwright and poet Friedrich Schiller (no drug addict AFAIK) wrote in his stage play "Intrigue and Love": To destroy bliss is also bliss!
Welcome to the world of the Occult, where everybody is either a fool, a failure or a fraud, or all three of them! The historical foundation of the Golden Dawn, one of the most influential organizations of modern magic and mysticism, is evidently based on a lie. Yet, the ideas and concepts of the order proofed to be worthy and still prevail and are practiced in many forms (one of them is Thelema). In these weird little universe of countless grimoires and schools and pathways, I would not search for truth but for inspiration. That's my personal take, of course!
Since the topic is whether Thelema is worth studying, it is pertinent to point out one can achieve out of body states without belonging to an
organizational structure designed by someone (Crowley) trying to indoctrinate you into their personal religion. As well, deconstructing the top 2 AA grades as I've done is useful and on-topic to someone asking about Thelema in a left hand path forum.
So the highest goal of the system being bullshit-ridden doesn't matter. Ok, I mean some people just need somewhere to belong and can't figure out things for themselves.
Inside experience of what? There's nothing in the AA that goes beyond what Crowley accomplished, so that's pretty simple to examine. Contrary to the AA's claims that the A∴A∴ is the one true and invisible Order which has operated under various names and guises throughout history to guide the spiritual evolution of humanity. It's just the agglomeration of some GD teachings, some Yoga, and Crowley's stuff, it isn't some timeless order and it's not the 'one true and invisible order' either lol
I know people have these notions of these amazing powerful occult groups that they can join, but they don't exist. It's all about individual development on an individual path. Otherwise you're just a carbon copy of another's (crowley's) limitations. And you go through a long teaching process imbibing into your 'subconscious' those limitations and distortions you're handicapping your development. So, there is more involved here than meets the eye.
So the highest goal of the system being bullshit-ridden doesn't matter. Ok, I mean some people just need somewhere to belong and can't figure out things for themselves.
Ah, but no . Its what some of the students accomplish ! Its down right here via testimony. Here is some more paper analogy for you ; same applied in Martial Arts for me , I been in plenty dodgy systems with some real dick instructors , I harvest the gold , correct the mistakes, incorporate and move on . Now I am awesome
Contrary to the AA's claims that the A∴A∴ is the one true and invisible Order which has operated under various names and guises throughout history to guide the spiritual evolution of humanity. It's just the agglomeration of some GD teachings, some Yoga, and Crowley's stuff, it isn't some timeless order and it's not the 'one true and invisible order' either lol
I know people have these notions of these amazing powerful occult groups that they can join, but they don't exist. It's all about individual development on an individual path.
Oh, I agree with that ! Ya gotta do it yourself , no one can do the work for you and many fail anyway .. that is clearly stated in at least one of those Thelemic organisations .
The longer it goes, the more obvious it is that Thelema is worth studying, just like with Bardon topic. Perfect? No. Worthwhile? Yes. And I see Beyond Everything's attempts to ridicule everything comming back to him - talk about karma I wonder if pity would be even better...
I think any system is worth studying and following IF you believe in it. IF you think it has value. IF you are willing to do the work. Full stop.
Magick is about belief. Don't believe it, move on. Believe in it, watch what happens. Not sure why it matters if someone studies a system someone else didnt find value in. I mean the world is a pretty big place, lots of things out there that dont work for everyone. So fucking what.
I dont follow Thelema. I think there are some really great aspects of it, but I dont follow it. I tried it, it wasn't for me. No harm done.
What is the worst case scenario here? Someone goes against BeyondEverythings guidance and tries Thelema and later decides it isn't for them? And??? Want a prize? What if that person excels and their life changes for the positive? Does he truly give a shit? NOPE.
Everyone has a fear of being duped. Everyone wants guarantees. There are no such guarantees in anything in the occult/spiritual. None. More book quotes than experience is a sad fucking thing. Very prevalent in todays occult. Armchair occultists vs practitioners, we aren't the same.
Whether you are Thelemite, Crowleyite, or full of spite.. there are lots of things that can inspire in these writings. One that has pumped me up many times when I wanted / needed it was this particular (audio) version of the third chapter of the Book of the Law
I found Crowley's writings extremely useful to me - but I never had any urge to follow his system. As @FireBorn states, and as is the rule in the occult as most other things: YMMV.
Whether you are Thelemite, Crowleyite, or full of spite.. there are lots of things that can inspire in these writings. One that has pumped me up many times when I wanted / needed it was this particular (audio) version of the third chapter of the Book of the Law
Also I used that passage as 'adorations' part for Liber Resh . I think most (?) or in my observation , just did them from 'Unity uttermost showed '
I preferred starting from
' I am the Lord of Thebes, and I
The inspired forth-speaker of Mentu;
For me unveils the veiled sky,
The self-slain Ankh-f-n-Khonsu
Whose words are truth. I invoke, I greet
Thy presence, o Ra-Hoor-Khuit! '
... and vocalizing in 'barbarous ' (ie 'rough Egyptian' )
It becomes potent ,especially when done 4 times a day for months on end !
Post automatically merged:
If I just looked at that one ritual ( Liber Resh ) , if that was all I got from the 'Thelemic system ' I would say that alone made it worth it for me .
Also I used that passage as 'adorations' part for Liber Resh . I think most (?) or in my observation , just did them from 'Unity uttermost showed '
I preferred starting from
' I am the Lord of Thebes, and I
The inspired forth-speaker of Mentu;
For me unveils the veiled sky,
The self-slain Ankh-f-n-Khonsu
Whose words are truth. I invoke, I greet
Thy presence, o Ra-Hoor-Khuit! '
... and vocalizing in 'barbarous ' (ie 'rough Egyptian' )
It becomes potent ,especially when done 4 times a day for months on end !
Post automatically merged:
If I just looked at that one ritual ( Liber Resh ) , if that was all I got from the 'Thelemic system ' I would say that alone made it worth it for me .
Wait — you did Liber Resh on regional radio with Hendrix playing in the background?
That’s the most unexpectedly iconic thing I’ve read this week.
Now I’m genuinely curious — what was the story with the radio gig?
Because mixing Thelema with broadcast schedules sounds like a level of operational chaos that only a veteran can pull off
Also I used that passage as 'adorations' part for Liber Resh . I think most (?) or in my observation , just did them from 'Unity uttermost showed '
I preferred starting from
' I am the Lord of Thebes, and I
The inspired forth-speaker of Mentu;
For me unveils the veiled sky,
The self-slain Ankh-f-n-Khonsu
Whose words are truth. I invoke, I greet
Thy presence, o Ra-Hoor-Khuit! '
... and vocalizing in 'barbarous ' (ie 'rough Egyptian' )
It becomes potent ,especially when done 4 times a day for months on end !
Post automatically merged:
If I just looked at that one ritual ( Liber Resh ) , if that was all I got from the 'Thelemic system ' I would say that alone made it worth it for me .
Whether you are Thelemite, Crowleyite, or full of spite.. there are lots of things that can inspire in these writings. One that has pumped me up many times when I wanted / needed it was this particular (audio) version of the third chapter of the Book of the Law
Good examples how to this very day Crowley inspires. Love him or hate him, but he is the big occult daddy, he and his weird eccentric friends back then in the late 19th century started a lot of stuff that's still relevant today.
To me, he was the entry point, reading his biography by Symonds. I didn't get much back then but it kept me returning to learn more.
I would like to quote Jason Louv, in his the foreword to DuQuette's "The Magick of Aleister Crowley":
As Thelema marches into its second century, it is clear that the aeon of Horus that Crowley predicted is here. We live in an increasingly magical society, with all of the resultant chaos and opportunity that brings. As the Book of Law predicts, the old Masonic structures and secret societies have become museum pieces. The axis of the Aeon is now individual. There are no secrets - only the Work, and no excuses not to start.
Yet for all of that, the old structures of repression and control are still flailing, doing everything they can to maintain their death grip on humanity, to push us back into a new Dark Age of cognitive slavery. The work goes on. Nothing is a given.
I don't say I agree on everything said here, but I see some truth here, and personally I find it quite uplifting and it inspires me to get more into Thelema.
