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HGA and Abramelin
- Thread starter DGreene
- Start date
To me the Abramelin ritual is 'wack-a-doodle' . The recent film out about it caused a bit of discussion, which I took part in ( elsewhere) .
It appears to be some type of masked Judaism mixed with this and that , resulting in a ritual where ' you spend a lot of time to get pure and holy so you can force demons to let you see dancing maidens .
WTF that has to do with K&C of HGA ? wait for it ..... it is said it is done as a demonstration to show the practitioner has risen above being affected by such things and merely appreciates the artistic value
In my experience there is no one rite to do this ; it is either something a person has or is born with or something they found and / or developed after various processes and experiences .
Also I advise not to get too hung up on the concept of HGA .... modify and combine it with concepts like 'tutelary spirit ' , ' Fraveshi and khvarenah' in Zoroastrianism , 'Daemon' / 'Genius' in ancient Greek .
Without this contact and guidance it is all but impossible to achieve Eudamonia !
It appears to be some type of masked Judaism mixed with this and that , resulting in a ritual where ' you spend a lot of time to get pure and holy so you can force demons to let you see dancing maidens .
WTF that has to do with K&C of HGA ? wait for it ..... it is said it is done as a demonstration to show the practitioner has risen above being affected by such things and merely appreciates the artistic value
In my experience there is no one rite to do this ; it is either something a person has or is born with or something they found and / or developed after various processes and experiences .
Also I advise not to get too hung up on the concept of HGA .... modify and combine it with concepts like 'tutelary spirit ' , ' Fraveshi and khvarenah' in Zoroastrianism , 'Daemon' / 'Genius' in ancient Greek .
Without this contact and guidance it is all but impossible to achieve Eudamonia !
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What was your experience like?
I appreciate your response. I believe that these truths are held under different containers to perhaps weed out the dabblers from the true initiates. On the one had, it's definitely going to produce incredible will and focus, and on the other perhaps a medium by which the student can stick with something for so long in a world where there's always a new book, revelation, tech, or system one can learn of borrow from. Perhaps it's meant to produce a distillation of sorts and connect one to the greater energy(s) that are available to us if we so choose.To me the Abramelin ritual is 'wack-a-doodle' . The recent film out about it caused a bit of discussion, which I took part in ( elsewhere) .
It appears to be some type of masked Judaism mixed with this and that , resulting in a ritual where ' you spend a lot of time to get pure and holy so you can force demons to let you see dancing maidens .
WTF that has to do with K&C of HGA ? wait for it ..... it is said it is done as a demonstration to show the practitioner has risen above being affected by such things and merely appreciates the artistic value
In my experience there is no one rite to do this ; it is either something a person has or is born with or something they found and / or developed after various processes and experiences .
Also I advise not to get too hung up on the concept of HGA .... modify and combine it with concepts like 'tutelary spirit ' , ' Fraveshi and khvarenah' in Zoroastrianism , 'Daemon' / 'Genius' in ancient Greek .
Without this contact and guidance it is all but impossible to achieve Eudamonia !
'Meant to ' ? For me that brings up the question; what was it meant to do ? That is, what was the author or the collator /distributor of its intentions ; the reason for the purpose of the book . I seriously doubt it was supposed to put people in contact with some 'HGA' ( I realize that is the seen as the common intention today )
While the narrative claims to be a 15th-century Jewish text, academic analysis and modern discoveries show it is actually a patchwork of Christian theology, German folklore, and highly corrupted translations .
some info from AI ;
- Hidden Christian Authorship: While supposedly written by a medieval Jew ("Abraham of Worms"), modern scholars like Rick-Arne Kollatsch have revealed the text was likely composed around 1600 by a Christian author. Early manuscripts contain direct quotes from Martin Luther’s German translation of the Bible rather than any ancient Hebrew sources. Later copyists intentionally altered these parts to make them look more "authentically Hebrew". [, , , ]
- The Roman Catholic Vulgate: The French manuscript used for the famous English translation features quotes from the Book of Psalms. However, the text copies the Latin Vulgate Bible—the official scripture of the Roman Catholic Church—rather than the Hebrew Torah. []
- Stolen Grimoire Material: The authoritative German copies are split into four books. Book Two is entirely a composite mashup of generic, practical folksy magic and Kabbalah. Large portions of it are copy-pasted directly from The Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses, an entirely separate German-Jewish grimoire. []
- The French and English Translation Errors: The "Abramelin" most people know today is a secondary concoction compiled by occultist S.L. MacGregor Mathers. He translated a heavily flawed, incomplete 18th-century French copy from the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal. Mathers accidentally left out an entire book of the text, changed the ritual length from one year to six months, and printed word grids that were totally broken or transposed incorrectly. [, , , ]
- which brings us back to the 'why' or what it was 'meant to do' ( that is , not the supposed inner result from the text but the 'why' of ; why go to all that troubkle of fabricating it ?
'' The author wanted to create a complete, ultimate magical encyclopedia. To do this, they stole and mixed everyday European folk magic, Jewish Kabbalah, and snippets of older German spellbooks. By rewriting these stolen parts into a single cohesive narrative, the author created a "one-stop shop" for magic while effectively hiding the fact that they were plagiarising contemporary folk traditions.''
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The last chapter of Tomer Devorah: ( in a code block out of strict adherence to the forum rules )
Post automatically merged:
The corrupted version is a honey-pot.
It's a trap. A pyramid scheme feeding Belial uninitiated wanna-be wizards.
have you read it ? If so what type of successful 'after effects' did he have and did he achieve 'communication ' ; once or ongoing ?
A brief description I read about it is that he continued his normal life ( work family etc ) while he did the ritual ?
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Yes, I have read the book. Marcus , at the time of the operation, was an IT manager as well as a long term magickal practitioner, he accomplished Abramelin while living at home with his wife and son, after achieving K & C with his HGA, he reports having several more such conversations and receiving direct guidance. The result appears to be his prolific and ongoing output as an occult writer and tarot expert, as well as maintaining his professional life,
It seems to go directly against the principle of retiring from the world during the performance of the ritual .
I dont trust Katz ..... I exposed a scam marketing thing they did years back , and the tarot / esoteric community got upset and mad with me ( I think it also lead to some slander and the closure of a tarot forum back then .
Also I dont think his success as a '' prolific and ongoing output as an occult writer and tarot expert, as well as maintaining his professional life'' has much to do with such operation but more to do with his scammy buisness operations
The worst part was, when it was exposed , people were '' Ohh ( giggle) he tricked us , ha ha , oh well we will buy the product any way , what a cool marketing trick . '' Ummmm , no ... he lied to you and tried to fake a 'magic ' trick . . . and actually discredit tarot and magic ;
Marcus Katz and Tali Goodwin executed a "sealed prophecy" marketing experiment to promote their business training materials for tarot readers.
How the "Prediction" Stunt Worked
The True Purpose of the Trick
Marcus immediately revealed that he wasn't acting as a psychic soothsayers. Instead, he confessed that it was a psychological and structural setup.
He used the stunt to launch a new tarot marketing and business program. The core lesson he proved to his students was that human behavior, community outrage, and online engagement are highly predictable. By understanding consumer psychology, a business owner can completely map out and "predict" how an audience will react to specific triggers.
AND then how to cash in on that ..... he was selling a course on how to dupe people in the esoteric community and to garner interest he set up a 'dupe you' as an example .
'' It remains one of the most famous examples of meta-marketing in the modern esoteric community—using a magical illusion to sell a course on practical business strategy ''.
Why did they target those old esoteric and tarot forums ?
This stunt ultimately deepened the divide between the old-guard forum purists (who believed tarot should remain strictly esoteric) and the rising wave of "Tarosophy" students who embraced the reality of tarot as a viable modern business.
Threads discussing Katz or his book Tarosophy frequently dissolved into chaotic arguments about his commercialism and self-promotion. Detractors accused him of treating the tarot community as a personal piggy bank, using forums to funnel users into his paid, alternative ecosystem, Tarot Town. [, ]
2. Backlash from the "Sealed Prophecy" Stunt
When the marketing trick played out, it caused immense anger on the forums. Users who felt they were participating in genuine, organic esoteric debates realized they had been deliberately triggered as part of a marketing experiment. On the forums, users labeled Katz as manipulative, deceptive, and a "charlatan" who used psychological tricks under the guise of tarot wisdom. Because these attacks questioned his personal integrity rather than just his business model, they frequently crossed the line into personal vitriol.
3. Price and Elitism Accusations
Another common point of hostility on the forums was the high cost of his specialized programs, such as his Hekademia degree course. Users openly attacked him for "gatekeeping" tarot knowledge behind steep paywalls. Forum threads often featured heated debates over whether his courses were high-value education or overpriced cash-grabs, with vocal critics warning new users to avoid his platform entirely. [, , ]
The guy is succssful due to hos ruthless materilaistic no holds barred marketing money making using the occult , not, I would say , due to any 'HGA' contact .
IF any thing , and he actually did do the ritual , while engaged in this sort of work and did get 'success' I suppose we could say his 'True Will 'was always to be some marketing money making scammer and his HGA was some type of 'Angel of Mammon '
I dont trust Katz ..... I exposed a scam marketing thing they did years back , and the tarot / esoteric community got upset and mad with me ( I think it also lead to some slander and the closure of a tarot forum back then .
Also I dont think his success as a '' prolific and ongoing output as an occult writer and tarot expert, as well as maintaining his professional life'' has much to do with such operation but more to do with his scammy buisness operations
The worst part was, when it was exposed , people were '' Ohh ( giggle) he tricked us , ha ha , oh well we will buy the product any way , what a cool marketing trick . '' Ummmm , no ... he lied to you and tried to fake a 'magic ' trick . . . and actually discredit tarot and magic ;
Marcus Katz and Tali Goodwin executed a "sealed prophecy" marketing experiment to promote their business training materials for tarot readers.
How the "Prediction" Stunt Worked
- The Sealed Prophecy: Months before a major product launch, Marcus Katz recorded a highly specific video prediction, placed it in a secure, digital "vault" (or a password-protected file), and publicly announced that he had predicted an exact sequence of events.
- The Inciting Event: Over the following weeks, Marcus and Tali orchestrated a massive, public online controversy or specific chain of events within the tarot community. To the public, it looked like a spontaneous, chaotic series of arguments, responses, and coincidences unfolding live in forums and email newsletters.
- The Reveal: At the climax of the event, Marcus released the password to the sealed video file.
- The Fulfillment: When users watched the video, they saw Marcus—filmed months prior—accurately predicting every single thing that had just happened. He detailed exactly who would get angry, what emails would be sent, how the community would react, and how the "spontaneous" events would peak.
The True Purpose of the Trick
Marcus immediately revealed that he wasn't acting as a psychic soothsayers. Instead, he confessed that it was a psychological and structural setup.
He used the stunt to launch a new tarot marketing and business program. The core lesson he proved to his students was that human behavior, community outrage, and online engagement are highly predictable. By understanding consumer psychology, a business owner can completely map out and "predict" how an audience will react to specific triggers.
AND then how to cash in on that ..... he was selling a course on how to dupe people in the esoteric community and to garner interest he set up a 'dupe you' as an example .
'' It remains one of the most famous examples of meta-marketing in the modern esoteric community—using a magical illusion to sell a course on practical business strategy ''.
Why did they target those old esoteric and tarot forums ?
- The "Outrage Economy" of Forums: Long before modern social media algorithms, online forums were highly susceptible to flame wars and public drama. Marcus Katz intentionally triggered debates on these platforms because he knew the forum algorithms (which bumped threads with the most recent replies to the top of the board) would keep his manufactured controversy visible for days.
This stunt ultimately deepened the divide between the old-guard forum purists (who believed tarot should remain strictly esoteric) and the rising wave of "Tarosophy" students who embraced the reality of tarot as a viable modern business.
Threads discussing Katz or his book Tarosophy frequently dissolved into chaotic arguments about his commercialism and self-promotion. Detractors accused him of treating the tarot community as a personal piggy bank, using forums to funnel users into his paid, alternative ecosystem, Tarot Town. [, ]
2. Backlash from the "Sealed Prophecy" Stunt
When the marketing trick played out, it caused immense anger on the forums. Users who felt they were participating in genuine, organic esoteric debates realized they had been deliberately triggered as part of a marketing experiment. On the forums, users labeled Katz as manipulative, deceptive, and a "charlatan" who used psychological tricks under the guise of tarot wisdom. Because these attacks questioned his personal integrity rather than just his business model, they frequently crossed the line into personal vitriol.
3. Price and Elitism Accusations
Another common point of hostility on the forums was the high cost of his specialized programs, such as his Hekademia degree course. Users openly attacked him for "gatekeeping" tarot knowledge behind steep paywalls. Forum threads often featured heated debates over whether his courses were high-value education or overpriced cash-grabs, with vocal critics warning new users to avoid his platform entirely. [, , ]
The guy is succssful due to hos ruthless materilaistic no holds barred marketing money making using the occult , not, I would say , due to any 'HGA' contact .
IF any thing , and he actually did do the ritual , while engaged in this sort of work and did get 'success' I suppose we could say his 'True Will 'was always to be some marketing money making scammer and his HGA was some type of 'Angel of Mammon '