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Is it possible to do a ritual in ceremonial magic and not include some aspects of the ritual and still get results
1. Can it be done on a different day but still in the relevant hour - e.g. if it has to be mercury does this have to be the hour of mercury on the day of mercury Wednesday? could it be in the hour of Mercury on a different day ...and still work?
2. Can a ritual be done on a different day and also not in the relevant hour and still get results
3. Do the instrumetns of the ritual have to meet the specifications perfectly? e.g.:
can the belt not be made of lion's skin?
can the knife not be made at the relevent time, could it be bought at a non-specified time?
4. Can you do the ritual without consecrating the space, instruments etc
5. Can you do the ritual without bathing in the ways specified
Put a different way... what aspects of the ritual are absolutely necessary to get results?
1. You can use hours in a bind. The issue is the spirit gets sucked out of the operation as soon as the planetary hour is up. So something I like to do is all the purification and consecration preceding the hour and make sure im calling on the spirit right on the dot into the planetary hour to maximize my time with it.
2. Devotion can be done at anytime. Spirit contact must follow the rules. Luna and Sol are the only exception. Their heirarchies can be utilized on any day as long as there is sunlight/moonlight respectively.
3. Specifications of the ceremonial objects can be substituted and adapted to modernity/whats at hand. The best way to do this is with help from the spirits themselves or your HGA. However there is a ridiculous amount of power behind sticking to the recipes to a tee. If its a once in a lifetime ritual construct the object to its Specifications. Otherwise ask the spirit heirarchies or the HGA to guide you on substitution of materials. The occult virtues exist in everything but the most powerful magic is when they are done by very specific instruction. This is where you can get physical manifestations.
4. You CAN but its not advised. Youre going to collect a lot of unwanted visitors and it will have an effect on your psyche. This also permits these unwanted visitors to larp as the spirits youre trying to get into contact with and the ones you are trying to conjure wont show up. Some people specifically do this if theyre trying to load a space with a lot of spirit energy. If you're going to do this just be aware its gonna get filthy fast.
5. Ritual purification is crucial but most people have their own methods they develop over time. This can be anything from cold showers, shaving, sexual abstinence, abstinence from meat or fasting... you can develop your own method for this as long as it works.
What's absolutely necessary
1. Magic circle, you can visualize it or draw it just make sure its cast.
2. Discernment of spirits, do not trust them at all. You never know what youre really talking to. Have tests you can do on them.
3. Initiation, they will subjugate you and work against you unless you have realized your authority. This is what initiation is for.
Thank you for this careful and thoughtful response. Can initiation be done alone or does a person ahve to be part of an order? Are you saying that having a lions belt would make things much more effective? so interesting.
I wondered if I bought a knife but then sharpened it and maybe changed the handle and engraved the blade - all in the correct days and hours - whethere that would count as makeing the knife?
Is it possible to do a ritual in ceremonial magic and not include some aspects of the ritual and still get results
1. Can it be done on a different day but still in the relevant hour - e.g. if it has to be mercury does this have to be the hour of mercury on the day of mercury Wednesday? could it be in the hour of Mercury on a different day ...and still work?
2. Can a ritual be done on a different day and also not in the relevant hour and still get results
3. Do the instrumetns of the ritual have to meet the specifications perfectly? e.g.:
can the belt not be made of lion's skin?
can the knife not be made at the relevent time, could it be bought at a non-specified time?
4. Can you do the ritual without consecrating the space, instruments etc
5. Can you do the ritual without bathing in the ways specified
Put a different way... what aspects of the ritual are absolutely necessary to get results?
There are all different types of initiation from a typical Masonic derived western mystery school ' ( including Wicca as a 'spin off' ) traditional' initiation , through to a grueling physical survival tribal indigenous initiation . I have experience with both . I also have experience with a self initiation ritual I did *.
In respect to all of this experience, I would ask first ; what do you want to achieve ? That would depend on the answer from me .
Also in some cases, some people and groups have mucked around with the rituals , some groups are valid and use them so you can help yourself to advance and develop . Others use them so their group can advance and develop , or even for 'nefarious' reasons .
Doing it alone cuts you off from instruction in the ritual ( developments and parts of it you might not understand ) or need any help with the results and there is the overall fraternal aspect ... which should offer support .
On the other hand , if one is removed from that ( especially if it is a group with 'issues and problems ' that 'get in the way' ) then you will be alleviated from that .
The self initiation ritual I did ( after I did other 'non-self' initiations ) was the 'Ma'at self intimation ritual ' by Nema - there is a book on that . but it has a LOT of things in it that might be complex and not understood by a beginner .... some preliminary work and study would be required .... but it might give you an idea of what such a ritual could look like .
A simpler and better one might be the 'first' initiation ... which can be any ceremony you devise where you dedicate yourself to follow a path of self discovery and development and unlocking your own potentials and make an oath to that effect .
Are you saying that having a lions belt would make things much more effective? so interesting.
I wondered if I bought a knife but then sharpened it and maybe changed the handle and engraved the blade - all in the correct days and hours - whethere that would count as makeing the knife?
It would count more than just buying a 'magic knife' . My view is ; you do what you can .
But consider .... if you 'go the whole hog' ; learn how to identify and mine the ore , smelt it , forge the blade , blacksmith it , turn the handle ..... after a that ... imagine what your knowledge base is now ! And you have not just learnt those things ' Now I am a metal smith ' but by learning those processes , some of them can be applied to other situations and objects .
The found one of those preserved bog mummies ; they discovered from anaylsis ( hair, bone minerals etc ) that he had done something like this , he knew how to find ore and smelt it and make his own copper hand ax - not only that, the scientists had trouble replicating it ; one method they tried, they could not get a sharp edge on it like the bog man's ax had , make it harder for an edge and when used it shattered . No doubt bog man could also find and work with wood , repair and make leather clothes and shoes ; hunt, navigate, have star lore, native medicine ( some in his pouch was found ) etc etc etc .
But what ever part YOU put into it , you will learn something from that . Buying the finished product , you won;t learn that much . And besides .... any food you grow and cook .... any motorcycle you restore ... as well as learning from the process , its going to have a special personal quality for you ... and be 'the best '
