J. R. R. Tolkien, the Lord of the Rings, and Catholicism as Polytheism (video)

[MorganBlack]

Neat video.

Orthodox Priest & Tolkien Scholar, Fr. Andrew Damick ‪unpacks the theme of the Divine Council in the Bible and how this theme even shows up in one of his favorite novels, The Lord of the Rings.

Why Is There a 'Council of Gods' in the Bible (& Lord of the Rings) If There Is Only One, True God?

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Many might be surprised to learn (as I was many years ago) Catholicism is actually polytheistic. The difference from paganism is that Catholics do not worship the smaller gods.

(FYI, to put a finer point here, in Catholicism the Creator 'High God' is not a being per se, but is seen more as the 'Ground of Being' that makes all things. Basic Neoplatonism , just in another culture.)

J. R. R. Tolkien called the 'Lord of the Rings' a fundamentally religious and Catholic work. Fr. Andrew Damick ‪is more inclusive and unpacks some of the hidden paganism in Tolkien's worldview.

I had to look this up, but on December 2, 1953,Tolkien wrote to his friend, the Jesuit priest Father Robert Murray, where Tolkien discusses the underlying religious nature of his work:

"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or customs, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism."

In 1913, while studying at Oxford, Tolkien encountered two lines in an Anglo-Saxon poem called Crist, written by the poet Cynewulf:

Eala Earendel engla beorhtast
ofer middangeard monnum sended.

("Hail Earendel, brightest of angels,
over middle-earth sent unto men.")

He later wrote:

"I felt a curious thrill, as if something had stirred in me, half wakened from sleep. There was something very remote and strange and beautiful behind those words, if I could grasp it, far beyond ancient English."

The name inspired Tolkien to create the character Earendil the Mariner, who travels to the undying lands to plead for the salvation of Elves and Men. In the Mythology of Middel Earth Earendil’s story became the key themes of The Silmarillion (mentioned in the video above). He eventually becomes a star - the Morning Star - carrying a Silmaril across the sky.

Some have pointed out the story of LoTR was directly inspired by the elves (the angels) in a series of visions to Tolkien, where they taguht him their langage and stories. Based on this, some argue Lord of the Rings is a literally divinely inspired work of art. Which could be why so many are so passionate about it.

 

[moonbow]

Lord of the Rings seems to be claimable by literally anyone. The political left claimed it for themselves, the far-right claimed it for themselves, wizards claimed it and now catholics do it too. Wow, LoTR will endure forever in every peoples hearts.
Video seems interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[MorganBlack]

OK, had to. Just funnin'

Bringing us all together!

This is how I see it. While the LOTR has pagan aesthetics of fantasy lit (all the knights in history were actually pagans, obviously) to suck you in, the story's uh, bones are very Catholic. Seriously, Middle-earth is a land of ancient crypts, dead kings, and necromancy.

Early Christians were necromancers in a very weird, underworld mystery cult, who collected the bones of their martyred dead, freaking out out their pagan neighbors. (In my view, Catholicism was never supposed to be a civilization-level religion. Too deathy.)

So has been claimed by some magicans recently that the Cult of the Saints is equivalent to the pagan Hero observatioins (both as the Mighty Dead) - and this is an honest question - where do we know from actual evidence the pagan magicians practiced necromancy?

Northern Europeans come from 'fear the dead' cultures , whereas Aragorn summoned the Dead Men of Dunharrow, using his authority as the Heir of Isildur to command them. Unless I am wrong - and I am open to being disproven here since I'm Panthiest - no north pagan king would do this, being from the 'anti-dead' cultures. I am actually curious.

 

[Morell]

Northern Europeans come from 'fear the dead' cultures , whereas Aragorn summoned the Dead Men of Dunharrow, using his authority as the Heir of Isildur to command them. Unless I am wrong - and I am open to being disproven here since I'm Panthiest - no north pagan king would do this, being from the 'anti-dead' cultures. I am actually curious.

On one side you have Loki, who has army of dead during Ragnarok. Was that reaction to Christianity coming North or something more Ancient? Question I have no answer for.
Odinn is necromancer who can bend dead to his will, helping him gaining knowledge. Murderers and other people who were sentenced to capital punishment were hanged as an offering unto Odinn. If not convicts, then they would probably offer slaves. Odinn also has that army being collelcted at Valhalla... though that seems to be later things of kings that were again reaction to Christianity. Nobility just wanted different afterlife than "common" folk.

Magicians of the North were probably visiting Hellheim, which was basically underground, every hill with a cave, real or artificial was entry to Hellheim. If they could command the dead I do not know, but they were surely seeking their knowledge and/or assistance.

There was definitely ancestral cult, some dead were claimed to be feared ghouls, but some were considered to have become elves. Ljosalfar, light elves. And maybe some become other beings too...

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:29 AM

Lord of the Rings seems to be claimable by literally anyone. The political left claimed it for themselves, the far-right claimed it for themselves, wizards claimed it and now catholics do it too. Wow, LoTR will endure forever in every peoples hearts.
Video seems interesting, thanks for sharing.

This is true, but it's not exactly good. I was talking with person from Tie Eldalieva, when it was elves only, and heard some YT vids and the effect was in fact the opposite.

Christians were like: You're almost Christian, so leave it and go full on Christian. Christianity is true, so leave this fable and get real.
Norse pagans were like: You're almost Norse pagan, leave it and go full on Pagan. Paganism is true, so leave this fable and get real.

 

[Ohana]

Christians were like: You're almost Christian, so leave it and go full on Christian. Christianity is true, so leave this fable and get real.
Norse pagans were like: You're almost Norse pagan, leave it and go full on Pagan. Paganism is true, so leave this fable and get real.

This kind of seems like a microcosm of a problem people with mixed cultural origins face day to day. Its kind of like a tug of war of getting caught between two sides.

So when you come from both your not enough of that culture to be accepted and your not enough of the other culture to be accepted.

The Lotr world is simultaneously on the edge of being Christian but not enough for Christians and Pagan but not pagan enough for Pagans. So its identity is somehow both yet neither.

Which can kind of parallel how mixed cultural identities have long been not seen as an actual identity and getting the pressure to choose one or the other. They can be one or the other but not both. So they would have to divorce themselves from one cultural identity which could create identity problems in a world that does not posit them as even existing.

That's just something I noticed from this with how some describe having to choose one or the other and never being able to exist as just themselves.

 

[Morell]

This kind of seems like a microcosm of a problem people with mixed cultural origins face day to day. Its kind of like a tug of war of getting caught between two sides.

So when you come from both your not enough of that culture to be accepted and your not enough of the other culture to be accepted.

The Lotr world is simultaneously on the edge of being Christian but not enough for Christians and Pagan but not pagan enough for Pagans. So its identity is somehow both yet neither.

Which can kind of parallel how mixed cultural identities have long been not seen as an actual identity and getting the pressure to choose one or the other. They can be one or the other but not both. So they would have to divorce themselves from one cultural identity which could create identity problems in a world that does not posit them as even existing.

That's just something I noticed from this with how some describe having to choose one or the other and never being able to exist as just themselves.

Well said. New things start like this, syncretized system half way between older systems. Takes time for the new systems to get established, though in this case spiritually there won't be any breakthrough. Also too few people in this "movement." And I don't think that it is whatsoever spiritual. I turned my back on Tie Eldalieva when they started merch store. Yuck.

Talking with representatives of Silver Elves was no better. Every conversation with them turned into them offering me their books. Back then I couldn't, today I wouldn't. Nothing that I would find valuable.