What does it take to enter Heaven?

[Eldros]

Have sex only for procreational purposes, don't masturbate even once, and you'll be fine.

So you’re basically saying I should behave… at least until Saint Peter lets me in?

 

[MorganBlack]

Were you Irish Catholic, HoldAll? Not a fan of that Catholicism, myself. Cold, northern, bitter. ugh.

Some very devout Mexican Folk Catholics I know be gay onanists.

I would not ever say that is without tension with purely Catechism-level Catholicism , but also not a big deal in much of Mexican Catholicism culture, at least in the North.

I can't argue that the Church officially blesses gay sexual relationships. I do not like that one personally, having gay friends, and it keeps me at a certain distance from the more conservative, normie TradCaths. But I can very much argue that this teaching is what is called non-infallible, and that it is widely contested among theologians and faithful, and that the Church's own principles allow for conscientious disagreement on non-infallible matters.

From an informal Northern Mexican Catholics perspective I'd say masturbate all you want, have non-procreative sex , as long as one dos not turn it into a official sacrament or statement of faith, or you get married to it.

Oh wait. Sorry, Thelemites.

 

[HoldAll]

Were you Irish Catholic, HoldAll? Not a fan of that Catholicism, myself. Cold, northern, bitter. ugh.

Catholic altar boy until I discovered my sexual urges, then quit in disgust.

 

[MorganBlack]

Yeah, I hear ya.

I actually don't feel Catholicism is for kids. It is concerned with the mysteries of death , salvation and and the post-mortem experience, which is a heavy trip for the young ones.

And this is a speculative lens, rather than a formal ecclesiological category, but not without deep resonance with certain strands of Catholic thought but...

I mean, just LOOK at it. The Church is built on the rock at Caesarea Philippi, which was considered "the gates of Hades." It was built when Jesus said, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." Heavy stuff. And in Greek folk practice, people will often spit in front of an approaching Orthodox priest as a gesture recognizing the spooky and liminal power he carries.

The Church does have a very rich theology of death, judgment, heaven, and hell (the Four Last Things), and the liturgy speaks to this. I think, maybe, teens need more leeway to go make some mistakes.

Teens and young adults, , in my humble opinion, are better served if they are given leeway throw themselves into life and live it. Make some mistakes. Figure things out. And not be too caught up in old people's concerns.

But not my call.

 

[Amizodpalsdon]

Well, entering Heaven is more than having faith in God. Faith without acts is something that is like fire without oxygen - it can't exist. Bible Verses for this are: James 2:17: "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead and James 2:26: "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

And now, what do I mean by faith... is not the exoteric view but rather the esoteric view. I for one am an Unitarian Universalist. My belief is based on a lot of teachings from Judaism and Christianity (all Abrahamic religions btw). Notice the connection? Abraham, the first prophet of God and then the two first major religions? I practice a lot of occultism and spiritual practices, each with their own views of the underworld, some even more complex than the idea of St. Peter guarding the gates of Heaven (thing itself which is more complex as well but more on that later on in this post).

If I don't help the poor, be kind, have a humble and honest heart that is devoid of hate and irrational thoughts of rage, etc. then Heaven would be a place that I would hardly reach. Faith alone needs to be accompanied by having the qualities I described as they are representative of a model of living, not just mere qualities.

The first model of great qualities for the afterlife, in my opinion, comes from the Egyptian 42 commandments of Ma'at / The Goddess of Order and Justice and I cite them here:

1. I have not committed sin.
2. I have not committed robbery with violence.
3. I have not stolen
4. I have not slain men or women
5. I have not stolen food
6. I have not swindled offerings
7. I have not stolen from God / Goddess
8. I have not told lies
9. I have not carried away food
10. I have not cursed
11. I have not closed my ears to truth
12. I have not committed adultery
13. I have not made anyone cry
14. I have not felt sorrow without reason
15. I have not assaulted anyone
16. I am not deceitful
17. I have not stolen anyone's land
18. I have not been an eavesdropper
19. I have not falsely accused anyone
20. I have not been angry without reason
21. I have not seduced anyone's wife
22. I have not polluted myself
23. I have not terrorized anyone
24. I have not disobeyed the Law
25. I have not been exclusively angry
26. I have not cursed God / Goddess
27. I have not behaved with violence
28. I have not caused disruption of peace
29. I have not acted hastily or without thought
30. I have not overstepped my boundaries of concern
31. I have not exaggerated my words when speaking
32. I have not worked evil
33. I have not used evil thoughts, words or deeds
34. I have not polluted the water
35. I have not spoken angrily or arrogantly
36. I have not cursed anyone in thought, word or deeds
37. I have not placed myself on a pedestal
38. I have not stolen what belongs to God / Goddess
39. I have not stolen from or disrespected the deceased
40. I have not taken food from a child
41. I have not acted with insolence
42. I have not destroyed property belongings to God / Goddes

Although the list of Laws is lengthy, it resembles the way one should behave to have a good life and enter Heaven: have a calm mind, a good and humble heart, avoid committing adultery, murder and other crimes / transgression, help others, avoid at all costs committing blasphemy.

Slightly different but very important to the topic we have the Ten Commandments of God:

1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other Gods before me. (Note: this refers to addictions, vices and not Gods / Elohim)
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (Note: this is intended for not worshipping what is known as thoughtforms / mental projections of Ego or what our brain imagines for the moment)
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain (basically related to not committing blasphemy)
4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (That is the case for Hebrew people but you need to respect the days that are Holy based on your belief system as well as the Holy days of other belief systems)
5. Honor thy father and thy mother. (This refers both to the parents one has / had, and also the Cosmic / Esoteric aspects of the Divine Masculine and Divine Feminine)
6. Thou shalt not kill
7. Thouh shall not commit adultery
8. Thou shall not steal
9. Thou shall not bear false witness
10. Thou shall not covet (Rest of these 5 are deeply connected with the 42 Laws of Ma'at)

Now when it comes to Peter, the concept of Gate keeper is something that relates more than just the image of Peter, the Bearded Saint that guards the Pearly gates. Saint Peter is acting more as a Divine Judge in mainstream Christian tradition, but in apocryphal writings such as Apocalypse of Peter, we have St. Archangel Uriel standing as the Divine Judge at the pearly gates. This can be interpreted as Human (Peter) evolution through Higher Wisdom (Archangel Uriel). Achieving great spiritual evolution can help one live a good life and reach the Pearly Gates.

As for the Bible verse Matthew 16:18–19, it states specifically that in some way we are responsible for what we are doing in this life. This is also further acknowledged by other verses such as Galatians 6:7: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." The verses Matthew 16:18–19 also relates in my opinion to the Hermetic principle of vibration, whereby the power of our thoughts and words can shape the reality that we live in, of course, taking into consideration external factors that are not in our control.

OMG 42 commandments? As if 10 weren't bad enough to follow, especially when those suggesting you follow them, had no intention of doing so themselves. Talk about a revelation . Think I'll stick to the non-theistic paths which are weirdly full of (generally helpful [albeit void]) deities. Thanks, that's been insightful.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:49 AM

So you’re basically saying I should behave… at least until Saint Peter lets me in?

The mind boggles at the possibilities of response to that question 🫢. Thanks for bringing a smile to.my face.

 

[Nembra]

Yeah, I hear ya.

I actually don't feel Catholicism is for kids. It is concerned with the mysteries of death , salvation and and the post-mortem experience, which is a heavy trip for the young ones.

And this is a speculative lens, rather than a formal ecclesiological category, but not without deep resonance with certain strands of Catholic thought but...

I mean, just LOOK at it. The Church is built on the rock at Caesarea Philippi, which was considered "the gates of Hades." It was built when Jesus said, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." Heavy stuff. And in Greek folk practice, people will often spit in front of an approaching Orthodox priest as a gesture recognizing the spooky and liminal power he carries.

The Church does have a very rich theology of death, judgment, heaven, and hell (the Four Last Things), and the liturgy speaks to this. I think, maybe, teens need more leeway to go make some mistakes.

Teens and young adults, , in my humble opinion, are better served if they are given leeway throw themselves into life and live it. Make some mistakes. Figure things out. And not be too caught up in old people's concerns.

But not my call.

Very well may be that for the sorry state the Church is in (at least by certain metrics) it can only thank its own practice of rounding the corners and passing over the difficult truths in order to serve them to children, which ironically makes them completely insulated against graduating to the real thing - and then the dumbed down, infantile religiosity passes across generation and entrenches itself in culture. Just a thought that came to me as I'm reading this.

 

[Aeternus]

OMG 42 commandments? As if 10 weren't bad enough to follow, especially when those suggesting you follow them, had no intention of doing so themselves. Talk about a revelation . Think I'll stick to the non-theistic paths which are weirdly full of (generally helpful [albeit void]) deities. Thanks, that's been insightful.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 1:49 AM

The mind boggles at the possibilities of response to that question 🫢. Thanks for bringing a smile to.my face.

Whatever your choice . Glad to hear that my post was insightful.

Just for a fun check, if 42 Laws / Commandments seem quite the large of the list and honestly, it took me some time to format all of it in my first post on this topic... imagine having to write the 613 mitzvot in the Torah. 248 Positive commands to do and also 365 negative commands (things that one should abstain from doing)

 

[Eldros]

I can only tell you how I hope to face any afterlife guardian or judge: with simplicity, clarity, and sincerity.

I expect that the wisdom of that situation, embodied in the penetrating awareness and insight of the guardian, will cast my being in a somewhat unfamiliar light, revealing things about myself that I may not like (and perhaps some things that I do like). The best thing to do in that case is to accept with humility whatever is revealed, and thus be reconciled to the truth, instead of seeking to avoid the truth - which can only lead to greater hardening of the shells of egoic self-deception, and the alienation and fruitless wanderings.

In the meantime, I seek to prepare for this situation by regularly making time to allow as much of this ultimate perspective as possible to shine into my awareness and to show me what needs to be seen.

I like that idea - it makes me think that maybe the gates aren't really about proving that we've been “good enough,” but about finally having nowhere left to hide.
Maybe Saint Peter wouldn't even need to ask if we deserve paradise. Probably we'd just have to see ourselves honestly - how we've loved, where we've failed, what we've done for others, and what we've avoided facing.
Maybe all we can really do while we're here is try to be honest with ourselves, accept that we're going to mess up sometimes, and keep trying to do a little better.

 

[KjEno186]

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I remember reading this post by The Ethical Skeptic some time ago. It made sense to me that all we get in religion is the UPG of the founder(s) and those who later profit from maintaining the status quo. Remember, the writers of so-called sacred texts put their "pants" on one leg at a time just like we do (not saying they all wore pants, but you catch my meaning). It would additionally be an error to assume that we've advanced beyond our ancestors in all things, however, and that they were merely superstitious goat herders. Our views of the past should neither be filled with modern hubris nor uncritical acceptance.

‘I have sinned. I have offended him. I’m getting what I deserve. I am all alone. I will quietly wallow in this hell and suck it up, ‘cuz that’s what tough people do’. Such thinking is spiritual bullshit.​

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Dark agency will employ your errors as an entre into violating your integrity. Do not allow them permission to do this.​

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Integrity, in the end, is more important than appearances – and all the sins in the world do not mount to a hill of beans in comparison.​

If you wonder about "Dark Agency" as stated in the quote above, consider this post:

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After all, a religion in contrast is not actually defined by its doctrines, but rather those things it forbids to be known or said. Particularly if the religious perpetrator can establish guilt and fear of punishment (even that which is solely self-inflicted) inside the gestalt of their victim.​

 

[scholar]

Have sex only for procreational purposes, don't masturbate even once, and you'll be fine.

That for sure changes a lot for those, who do not live like this, for at least 10 years - or in my case 30. And i know, its a little difference, which would not be without that decision. But... isnt this just because of the different hormone balance? Are regular orgasms really a fiend the long way for spiritual practitioners? And why exactly?

Regarding the topic of the tread: I once had a very interessting and paradise-like experience... I just did my walking meditation, which always comes after my sitting meditation, nothing unusual... a normal evening. Im not even sure wheather i was very thoughtless/still, or not, or wheather i just forgot my spiritual goals a bit, because the walking meditation by itself felt nice, and that reward was enough for me. What i know is, i did every step in that walking meditation at exactly that moment in which it had to be done - by accident - and suddenly everything felt perfect for me. That feeling expanded to my complete surrounding too. Nothing changed in the outside, i didnt see any light or something else... but my whole experience was covered by a beauty, like in paradise. Those 10 seconds where so beautyfull, that i startet to regret, that i have to die one day, and that i would at latest loose it then.

After that regret (and my further regret of course, that i had that damn thought), that beauty vanished fast... it was still there a bit, but much weaker. Then i wanted to know, how fragile or stable that phenome is, because i dont want to trust anything too unsteady and i anyways already lost a big part of it at that moment. So i started to analyse it, to test its permanence... i started with my inner state. And i learned nothing and i lost it completely. That was a year and a half ago.

So to answer the question, "How can i get into heaven?", i would say: Exactly that question hinders you from getting even one single step upwards, on a stairway with infinite steps. And even if you would manage it one day to accidently step into heaven by coincidence, you would need to be trained very well, otherwise you will be captivated by it within seconds and then St. Petrus will grab you, and throw you down all the infinite stairs and he will close the door behind him. Hopefully not forever...

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:20 AM

In addition: At the beginning of my practice time, i was told by someone: "There are basicly 2 ways in the zen-tradition. The members of the first one try to open the big castle gate with all their power until they succeed. The second ones pitch their tents in front of the castle and plant a few nice flowers, until that gate opens by itself one day.

 

[Eldros]

What if one day Saint Peter is standing in front of a guy who spent his whole life as a Buddhist,, Taoist, or follower of some other religion, and only converted to Christianity on his deathbed?/
Peter can see that the guy was really a good person and, as far as he’s concerned, deserves to go to Heaven.
But now Peter isn’t really sure what he’s supposed to do.
.Does he just let him in, or does he need to escalate the case higher?