Experience with Eight Brocades Qigong with Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming - Sitting or Standing

[ihateclowns]

Hello, anyone here has any experience with Eight Brocades Qigong with Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming or from other teachers?

 

[Frater M.M.]

I've done a little of both, following his YouTube vids, in the past. Also read one of his books on qigong. I think he's good and well regarded, but I haven't done it long enough to be able to personally report anything back to you, unfortunately.

 

[ihateclowns]

Thanks, yes he is good, have seen his full 6 DVDs of Qigong theory long back but just like you I never stuck to any form, now I have decided to start with sitting first and then standing later. Hope to see some benefits.

 

[Frater M.M.]

Definitely be interested to hear any results you get.

I don't really have the capacity to do any more physical stuff in my week (already have gym, Pilates, dance) but I remember his seated version is very light weight physically. Maybe I'll take another look at this myself or maybe even something simple like seated Daoyin

 

[ihateclowns]

sure but like most I'm too surprised that these simple movements can yield results though there is scientific research showing some benefits.

 

[Frater M.M.]

Amazing to see a video of his is still up there with some nice commentary. The seated version is even easier and lighter than I remembered.

I haven't looked at the research in a while but there seem to be some interesting reviews and meta-analyses out there. I think the bulk of the research is for standing qigong and not seated tho (I believe for the last 2026 link, 17 out of 18 trials are for standing qigong).

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[ihateclowns]

think the bulk of the research is for standing qigong and not seated tho (I believe for the last 2026 link, 17 out of 18 trials are for standing qigong).

Yes seems to be and for research all forms of qigong, tai chi are the same when it comes to results. One has to try and test for results, sometimes I think it to be the case that people back then must have got bored while breathing chi or prana in and came up with forms to get over boredom.

 

[Frater M.M.]

sometimes I think it to be the case that people back then must have got bored while breathing chi or prana in and came up with forms to get over boredom.

Yeah, tbh I'm not really a fan of just sitting around doing stuff (only as a last resort). I've always preferred motion/bodily rhythm: taichi, moving qigong, etc.

Even with "simple" stuff like zazen I'd much rather dance or play guitar than stare at a wall or look at my breath.

 

[ihateclowns]

Hope you have seen some videos of sparring between tai chi masters and other eastern marital arts even Aikido vs BJJ, muay thai and others, Joe Rogan enjoys those somehow.

All these from east are only namesake martial arts they are not for real life defense at all, all must be for internal health and long life without any need to confront enemies. But Dr. Yang says one form (I don't know which one) was developed by a Chinese general for soldiers so there is a lot of superiority in these forms owing to being in existence for so long.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:29 AM

don't remember which one*

 

[Frater M.M.]

Hope you have seen some videos of sparring between tai chi masters and other eastern marital arts even Aikido vs BJJ, muay thai and others, Joe Rogan enjoys those somehow.

Yeah, this is what happens when the croaking frog comes out of its well and encounters a real frog on the road

All these from east are only namesake martial arts they are not for real life defense at all, all must be for internal health and long life without any need to confront enemies. But Dr. Yang says one form (I don't know which one) was developed by a Chinese general for soldiers so there is a lot of superiority in these forms owing to being in existence for so long.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:29 AM

don't remember which one*

Yeah, on the whole this has been my experience in the past. I actually went to a dedicated tai chi "dojo" the other year (run by Sifu Gary Wragg) just to try out a qigong class. It was good but I never went back and decided to focus on different exercises (as I said further up). They actually do fighting/sparring there with actual pads and gloves (as opposed to just things like pushing hands) but I never actually attended a tai chi class to see exactly how they did it.

I'm not sure which style Dr Yang had in mind but I guess it will also depend how you train/cross-train it. I mean, it will never stand in the mma ring on its own IMO but it might be enough by itself to knock a random drunken attacker to the ground while you run off.

... I just looked it up. Apparently, Yang in his book Eight Simple Qigong Exercises for Health, Yang attributes the Eight Brocades to General Yue Fei (1103–1142) of China's Southern Song dynasty for improving his soldiers' health/physical conditioning. Also, Xingyiquan and Eagle Claw martial arts styles are traditionally associated with Yue Fei.

 

[ihateclowns]

Yeah, on the whole this has been my experience in the past. I actually went to a dedicated tai chi "dojo" the other year (run by Sifu Gary Wragg) just to try out a qigong class. It was good but I never went back and decided to focus on different exercises (as I said further up). They actually do fighting/sparring there with actual pads and gloves (as opposed to just things like pushing hands) but I never actually attended a tai chi class to see exactly how they did it.

I know some masters don't let students spar and it is sad, no one gets confident to take on a real threat on the road by practising with pads.

I'm not sure which style Dr Yang had in mind but I guess it will also depend how you train/cross-train it. I mean, it will never stand in the mma ring on its own IMO but it might be enough by itself to knock a random drunken attacker to the ground while you run off.

Indeed shadow boxing is better than this.

... I just looked it up. Apparently, Yang in his book Eight Simple Qigong Exercises for Health, Yang attributes the Eight Brocades to General Yue Fei (1103–1142) of China's Southern Song dynasty for improving his soldiers' health/physical conditioning. Also, Xingyiquan and Eagle Claw martial arts styles are traditionally associated with Yue Fei.

Yes I remember now in the DVD he mentions that and also being a Taiwanese he is a kind of Chinese supremacist so many times he bragged about how great ancient Chinese were, Chinese medicine was etc.

 

[HoldAll]

Yeah, this is what happens when the croaking frog comes out of its well and encounters a real frog on the road

What I think about taiji and the martial arts… I linked to the same video in my post to prove my point. Taiji may have been inspired by martial arts but a valid fighting style it isn't. Almost any physical movement you're capable of performing can be interpreted as a martial arts move. My favourite example is reaching across the shoulder with your hand and scratching yourself between the shoulderblades - congratulations, you've just performed a rising elbow (age empi) to the chin. That move features in various karate katas but I've never seen it used successfully in MMA infighting, so duh.

Thing about sparring and tournaments is that you're trying to hit another person who doesn't want to get hit and wants to hit you in return, which is a far cry from all these scripted videos on youtube where a student playing the aggressor patiently waits while the 'master' gleefully administers his pugilistic treatment (I call them 'chump vs. champ' clips). Do you have any idea how difficult it is e.g. to land a kick to the stomach without stubbing your toes on the other guy's guard? You may have the most powerful techniques in the world but if you don't know how to string them together in intelligent combinations, have poor footwork, and don't possess a good feel for the optimum use of available space, you're going to get creamed, period.

What's more, from what I've observed in other martial arts (Capoeira Angola vs. Capoeira Contemporânea), students only accustomed to slow-mo movements duck too late, are easily rattled when facing fast attacks, and generally are much too scared too quickly to be effective. As ye train, so shall ye fight.

I think what happened here is that practitioners discovered that taiji subjectively gave them an overwhelming feeling of power, which subsequently made some loudmouthed braggards among them claim invincibility. It's not called an 'internal art' for nothing - what goes on inside those guys may be spectacular but it will never translate into the ring or octagon.