Keeping silent in the modern day.

[Wildchildx11]

Is there actually any use for silence in the modern day? I mean, I understand that a lot was based off of persecution and often talking about the occult and esoteric to people is from the ego and it trains discipline being silent but let's be realistic, you aren't really being persecuted in the modern day anymore. Just by being on this forum, you are probably breaking a vow of silence.

I have issues with silence and they're from deeply held beliefs.

I think knowledge should be shared. Quite frankly, if you grasp an esoteric secret, there not a lot of reason to hide it in metaphor. If you try to explain an esoteric concept to those of a lower spiritual development, it sounds like schizophrenic rambling to those who can't understand it. It's why Jesus spoke in parables and said "those who have ears to hear, let them hear" to his disciples. There is already energetic influences at play and the universe has ways to keep secrets secret, I mean, I'm not going around talking to people I just met in real life or displaying my Magick or bragging about it, but I'm not exactly hiding it or remaining silent either.

Silence to me means connecting with the silence of mind beyond thoughts such as during meditation.

If people didn't freely share the knowledge they received and share these esoteric secrets, even people from esoteric orders, I wouldn't be where I was on the path. I use a lot of pirated materials, ebooks, I'm big on the concept of information and knowledge should be freely shared and tend to place my trust in the universe. If it's not on someone's path to get into the occult, then they won't be able to grasp it, if it is, then they will and it's the will of the universe.

I think the concept of keeping knowledge hidden to a small number of elites, tends to stem from ego. If they aren't meant to grasp knowledge, they already won't. They need to do the work themselves for it to have any meaning to them on a higher level. Knowledge is already kept hidden from those who can't grasp it even if in front of them.

What is your perspective on this topic?

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

Quite frankly modern day society is spiritually stunted enough, maybe they do need to have access to these spiritual concepts, and the insights, intuitions, knowledge, etc should be shared to help others who get on the path develop a higher degree of spiritual consciousness.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

I feel those who are the most likely to push the narrarative from the "remain silent" seem to be the biggest hypocrites, I mean, how many occultists go and write and publish books about the occult laying out either their own secrets or the process for others to grasp secrets from their perspective.

The biggest danger is sharing wrong information, which I guess will help a person practice discernment, which is why I'm not uncareful, and often sit on things until I can properly understand them, but I do have issues with silence in regards to the occult or spiritual when I feel strongly that aspects of a spiritual nature should be open and shared.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

I've also never been part of a formal initiatory order so therefore I've broken no oaths.

Gaining knowledge still bears fruit for me since I can think on a higher level and understand esoteric symbolism, correspondences, etc.

If a spirit told me something and they made it clear and absolutely clear that it shouldn't be shared, I wouldn't share it. I would keep it to myself, but I view that as a matter of my personal relationship between the spirit and me. Like if a friend told me something in confidence and told me not to share it, then I wouldn't.

General esoteric knowledge or my own intuitions? I share that shit on here.

 

[Taudefindi]

Is there actually any use for silence in the modern day?(...)let's be realistic, you aren't really being persecuted in the modern day anymore.

Not true.
While it is true that most modern countries nowadays put science in place of superstitions, there are many places that still are "backwards" as in they still view the dealing with the occult and magic as something evil.

Plus, there's the fact that with many countries having a lot of religious people, the religions in power(usually Abrahamic ones) still preach that magic/witchcraft and anything of the sort to be "evil" and "not of God" so they still do witchhunts even in these days.The only difference being that most places will try to ruin your public image rather than outright kill you, but people are very susceptible to being manipulated.

I still remember a story I've seen once, years ago, of a radio owner making fake news about a woman using witchcraft to go after children.A crowd went after the woman and they lynched her, they all said that they acted on the frenesi of going after "the witch attacking children"(or some BS excuse to try to save their hides).
Later the radio owner had to confess that he made that up just to attract listeners.His lie caused a death, because people thought she was a witch(and you would think that most people wouldn't even care about it in this age), they went after her like those witch hunters of ages ago.

Also let's not forget places like mulsim-ruled countries and others that DO still punish witchcraft and anything occult-related.

So yeah, there still are persecutions going on.Even in social medias you can see occultists or practicing pagans being bashed by ultra-religious "warriors of Christ".

I think knowledge should be shared.

I think the same, if others will make use of that knowledge though, that is on them to take the initiative.

If you try to explain an esoteric concept to those of a lower spiritual development, it sounds like schizophrenic rambling to those who can't understand it

Only if you lack the ability to explain properly.Not everyone that learns something is apt to teach it to others.Teaching and passing on knowledge is actually a skill in itself.

Reason why so many knowledge in the old days was spread through fables/stories/parables(like you said), because it's easier to understand a story than a highly complex and technical explanation.You gotta learn to know how to teach.

displaying my Magick or bragging about it

I have to ask because I'm curious...how would you "go around displaying your magick"?Do you carry with yourself a kit for rituals or something to use on the spot?

If it's not on someone's path to get into the occult, then they won't be able to grasp it

Disagree.Sometimes people don't grasp things exactly because the materials they have don't "speak in their language" so they can't be taught properly.To me occultism isn't a matter of "being deserving to learn or not" but a matter of "do you seek to learn or not", it's on the person to go after it rather than expect the world to give it to them in a silver platter.

the concept of keeping knowledge hidden to a small number of elites, tends to stem from ego

The previously quote phrase of yous is exactly that, a sort of elitism when you say things like "others won't be able to..." you're trying to say that you is one of the people that "can because it's on your path" and that stems a bit from a sense of superiority over others.Everyone can step on this path, not everyone will want to though.

modern day society is spiritually stunted enough

Between the hard push for science(which is funny because the scientific method has become a joke lately), oppressive religions taking the spiritual reigns of their believers and the guarantee that you'll live to work for the rest of your life, it makes sense that people seem to lack a healthy spirtiuality.

how many occultists go and write and publish books about the occult laying out either their own secrets or the process for others to grasp secrets from their perspective.

Silence is golden, but books are money.
Easy as that.

 

[Roma]

It is traditional to ensure that recipients of skills have sufficient control of their desires and thoughts to be relatively trustworthy.

Get it wrong and there may be karma for the teacher.

For example, who would want to be responsible for altering past events on this timeline?

(There is soft disclosure of a policing force for timelines - e.g. the movie concept of Time Cops)

 

[Wildchildx11]

Not true.
While it is true that most modern countries nowadays put science in place of superstitions, there are many places that still are "backwards" as in they still view the dealing with the occult and magic as something evil.

Plus, there's the fact that with many countries having a lot of religious people, the religions in power(usually Abrahamic ones) still preach that magic/witchcraft and anything of the sort to be "evil" and "not of God" so they still do witchhunts even in these days.The only difference being that most places will try to ruin your public image rather than outright kill you, but people are very susceptible to being manipulated.

I still remember a story I've seen once, years ago, of a radio owner making fake news about a woman using witchcraft to go after children.A crowd went after the woman and they lynched her, they all said that they acted on the frenesi of going after "the witch attacking children"(or some BS excuse to try to save their hides).
Later the radio owner had to confess that he made that up just to attract listeners.His lie caused a death, because people thought she was a witch(and you would think that most people wouldn't even care about it in this age), they went after her like those witch hunters of ages ago.

Also let's not forget places like mulsim-ruled countries and others that DO still punish witchcraft and anything occult-related.

So yeah, there still are persecutions going on.Even in social medias you can see occultists or practicing pagans being bashed by ultra-religious "warriors of Christ".


I think the same, if others will make use of that knowledge though, that is on them to take the initiative.


Only if you lack the ability to explain properly.Not everyone that learns something is apt to teach it to others.Teaching and passing on knowledge is actually a skill in itself.

Reason why so many knowledge in the old days was spread through fables/stories/parables(like you said), because it's easier to understand a story than a highly complex and technical explanation.You gotta learn to know how to teach.

I have to ask because I'm curious...how would you "go around displaying your magick"?Do you carry with yourself a kit for rituals or something to use on the spot?


Disagree.Sometimes people don't grasp things exactly because the materials they have don't "speak in their language" so they can't be taught properly.To me occultism isn't a matter of "being deserving to learn or not" but a matter of "do you seek to learn or not", it's on the person to go after it rather than expect the world to give it to them in a silver platter.


The previously quote phrase of yous is exactly that, a sort of elitism when you say things like "others won't be able to..." you're trying to say that you is one of the people that "can because it's on your path" and that stems a bit from a sense of superiority over others.Everyone can step on this path, not everyone will want to though.


Between the hard push for science(which is funny because the scientific method has become a joke lately), oppressive religions taking the spiritual reigns of their believers and the guarantee that you'll live to work for the rest of your life, it makes sense that people seem to lack a healthy spirtiuality.


Silence is golden, but books are money.
Easy as that.

I agree with everything you said. It was probably the way I explained it, since I tend to be very detailed and kind of down to earth in how I explain things, but I just think the very few times I've tried to explain something such as Carl Jung or my intuitions on how a lot of religious symbolism is based off of nature and nature may be the source from which religion and myths stem from since it holds meaning on our subconscious (not the source) they aren't able to comprehend it.

I thought I explained it clearly.

I really do have issues with taking an oath to silence on my path, because I can deal with persecution, I guess it may make people a little uncomfortable working with demons or what not and I'm not open about it in public, but I do tell my therapist who is cool.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

It is traditional to ensure that recipients of skills have sufficient control of their desires and thoughts to be relatively trustworthy.

Get it wrong and there may be karma for the teacher.

For example, who would want to be responsible for altering past events on this timeline?

(There is soft disclosure of a policing force for timelines - e.g. the movie concept of Time Cops)

If something absolutely needs to be kept secret, then I'm cool with keeping it secret, but really if something like that occurs, it's probably within the will of the universe.

I'm talking more about spiritual or esoteric secrets and not time travel.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

I think after consideration, I'm going to do better at keeping things secret. I for the most part keep things secret in real life, but sometimes I have conflict "do I explain this concept or talk about this religious esoteric secret that I find interesting when I think it should be shared to help others on their path" or do I not?

There is a reason for keeping things secret. I just had a conflict between that and my belief that knowledge of a spiritual nature should be shared.

 

[Xenophon]

The Buddhists have a policy of not chasing after anyone, nor turning anyone away. But if you stay, you are given hurdles to clear.

Myself I have no problem with elitism. If someone is an expert, he is quite justified in screening his students. If someone has a problem with the expert claiming expertise, the one with the ego issues is the puffed-up coulda been pupil, not the tried and tested adept who knows his own merits because he has put them to the test. Equality is a fine thing when it comes to queueing up for the men's room or free school lunch. It is sheer presumption when it comes to the preceptor/pupil relation.

Case in point. We've had a few "Killing With Magick" threads in this forum. It's common-sense for any lurking adept to put a black mark by the names of those hopelessly homicidal in character. Ditto, too, whose brand of moralizing stamps them as permanent foodstuff.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

The Buddhists have a policy of not chasing after anyone, nor turning anyone away. But if you stay, you are given hurdles to clear.

Myself I have no problem with elitism. If someone is an expert, he is quite justified in screening his students. If someone has a problem with the expert claiming expertise, the one with the ego issues is the puffed-up coulda been pupil, not the tried and tested adept who knows his own merits because he has put them to the test. Equality is a fine thing when it comes to queueing up for the men's room or free school lunch. It is sheer presumption when it comes to the preceptor/pupil relation.

Case in point. We've had a few "Killing With Magick" threads in this forum. It's common-sense for any lurking adept to put a black mark by the names of those hopelessly homicidal in character. Ditto, too, whose brand of moralizing stamps them as permanent foodstuff.

ADDENDUM TO THE ABOVE (edit time-limit expired)
We've had a few "Killing With Magick" threads in this forum. It's common-sense for any lurking adept to put a black mark by the names of those hopelessly homicidal in character. Ditto, too, whose brand of moralizing stamps them as permanent foodstuff. In such cases, the even marginally capable knowing-one says nothing about his own abilities or capacity to teach. It's bad strategy to flash wisdom, cash, or bared ass in a venue peopled with low-lifes.

(And no, I make no claim to adept... Is it adeptship or adepthood? I kin be a sailor on a ship or a homey in the hood, not sure which. In either case, I'm no adept.)

 

[Wildchildx11]

The Buddhists have a policy of not chasing after anyone, nor turning anyone away. But if you stay, you are given hurdles to clear.

Myself I have no problem with elitism. If someone is an expert, he is quite justified in screening his students. If someone has a problem with the expert claiming expertise, the one with the ego issues is the puffed-up coulda been pupil, not the tried and tested adept who knows his own merits because he has put them to the test. Equality is a fine thing when it comes to queueing up for the men's room or free school lunch. It is sheer presumption when it comes to the preceptor/pupil relation.

Case in point. We've had a few "Killing With Magick" threads in this forum. It's common-sense for any lurking adept to put a black mark by the names of those hopelessly homicidal in character. Ditto, too, whose brand of moralizing stamps them as permanent foodstuff.

I agree, I don't think I'm talking about a pupil-teacher relationship and killing Magick which I won't use is clearly an exception, however, I doubt that someone who wants to kill with Magick is going to achieve a lot of success in Magick.

I've actually changed my opinion somewhat in terms of secrecy from making this thread.

A lot of my previous views were from ego, which I guess I made this thread because I'm working on exploring and challenging them.

 

[Xenophon]

I agree, I don't think I'm talking about a pupil-teacher relationship and killing Magick which I won't use is clearly an exception, however, I doubt that someone who wants to kill with Magick is going to achieve a lot of success in Magick.

I've actually changed my opinion somewhat in terms of secrecy from making this thread.

A lot of my previous views were from ego, which I guess I made this thread because I'm working on exploring and challenging them.

Usually I don't know what I think till I'm halfway through composing a document. Which is still, I aver, better than not knowing what one thinks till he's seen what's trending on social media that hour."

 

[Wildchildx11]

Usually I don't know what I think till I'm halfway through composing a document. Which is still, I aver, better than not knowing what one thinks till he's seen what's trending on social media that hour."

I did have a conflict because I believe in freedom of information which kind of conflicts with silence. I was actually looking to challenge those views so I could advance on my path, they weren't held very firmly clearly especially since there are things which should be kept secret.

I think it's why I made this thread, because I don't want to be known as untrustworthy and want to be someone who is able to keep a secret, so paths will open.

It's still a view I have to challenge a bit though, but I think If I make a commitment to a secret or a formal oath, I should have to keep it.

And it hasn't really helped me the few times I have tried to talk about the esoteric with normies, I'm able to learn from my mistakes though, and they weren't even secrets or that esoteric, just "I had an interesting flash of insight".

I'm going to practice being silent about some things for myself.

 

[Xenophon]

Some Martin Tyrsegg tale has the dictum, "Wissen, Willlen, Wagen, Schweigen": Know, Will, Wager, Be Silent. (Though, come to think on it, I think this is but a plagiarism from Crowley's English version. Never mind, the Krautspeak is more alliterative.)

 

[Lazarus]

There is keeping silent, then there is gate keeping the knowledge/material. Two very different things in origin. But I can see how the terms have become cross contaminated.

“Keeping silent” originates with the context of protecting the magical energies of your intent. Not blabbing about the spell or ritual you just performed (or will perform). Psychologically speaking, you don’t want to talk all the energy out and never actually act on the thing.

Then there is the persecution issue. You’re right, we don’t have to hide in 2024 the way they did in 1824. While you may not be put to death, you can still be ostracized in certain social circles.

Then there is the point of preserving the “mystery” of the mysteries. I am part of an initiated order. It’s not really about gatekeeping for the sake of elitism. But you don’t put dynamite in the hands of children — because karma. There is a process in place for safety, mental health, spiritual awakening etc.

In other words, it’s not about keeping out. Rather, letting in slowly. I’ve only seen a handful of rejection cases. In all cases it was either: mental issues where the person was starting to suffer from not being able to process the energies and causing harm to themselves, people were disrespecting the path outright, or expressing intent to harm others.

Aside from all of the above, 90% of all the knowledge is for sale on Amazon. Kinda hard to gatekeep it any more anyway.

 

[Roma]

Knowledge is one thing; having permission is another.

One occasion permission was clearly withheld from me for about a month. Then I was suddenly permitted into another layer of consciousness

 

[Robert Ramsay]

“Keeping silent” originates with the context of protecting the magical energies of your intent. Not blabbing about the spell or ritual you just performed (or will perform).

This is correct. Until the magical act is completed, anyone you tell will be able to contribute to the outcome of the act. And their contributions are unlikely to be helpful.

 

[Anziel_Merkaba]

There is benefit to keeping silent. It's not always a good thing to post everything about your life online, which is something I think everyone struggles with at some point with how omnipresent social media has become. Keeping silent teaches restraint and prevents you from being influenced by potential bad actors, but at the same time there is a benefit to sharing knowledge. Maybe you should keep silent about personal works, but share information without all the details after the fact.