[Opinion] Fuel Capacity

[Pyrokar]

A thought that's been on my mind for a few days concerns the "energy" (hate that word) we burn in our endeavors.

Mana, Gnosis, Qi, Source, Chakra, just some of the words that come to mind at the moment, feel free to list any others...

So if as above is so below then it's only logical for magick to have it's own power source-
The fuel of the mind is attention or concentration just as the body has fatigue, health has immunity, im seeing it everywhere i look these days..
In Thelema and by extension it's parent they used willpower and the Easterners use Qi and Chakra we know all of this already.

So i suppose my questions would be, are all these sources of energy actually one and the same?
i am of the opinion that it depends on the praxis used meaning they are not all one thing with different names
can we try and categorize them all somehow? the spiritual energy would be that of our own souls?
What would be the equivalent in Evocation/summoning magick?
for example we know that Thelema burns on willpower and they have probably produced the most instructions on how to Grow this trait
but what about the others, more etherial and theoretical as they are? how do we grow each of them?
I am still very new to the study of vampyrism but this concept of harnessing
this energy from around seems just as appealing as generating it from within, i'd like additional thoughts on that.
well the same goes for the whole thread but this in particular.

another thing that comes to mind is difference between Strength vs Endurance/conditioning
So then, increasing the capacity for amount of this supposed fuel is a way to enable the magus into performing more and more "powerful" rites is it not?
yet they are not equal to the "strength" right?
Magick that is oriented towards the mind needs both imagination and willpower and so on...
what does Chaos rely on? Faith? that too must have it's capacity and a measure of intensity/ quality

so can we theorize then on two Magi, one with low count of whatever units of mana compared to another - yet the lesser might have a much purer/higher quality
of this energy - is this what we call talent in a Magus?

It's pretty hard to sell to my self this idea of dozens of different, specific energies within ourselves... yet by the logic i've used so far i can't conclude a different answer

i'd also welcome any cultivation methods both famous or less known to be noted if you think of any.
this can be quite a large description so keep it limited to the ones you personally think are effective, interesting
instead of listing a whole yoga procedure

im also aware this, like many of my other posts read rather crude for the eloquent aristocracy here but please forgive me that issue as im only here for the magick and i make all of my posts on the spot without focusing on the fluff.

Post automatically merged: Jul 24, 2024

This i forgot to mention, also means that our use of magick is limited unlike what most books which often claim
it's an inexhaustible resource that one can do all day every day, we must recharge the batteries whatever they are after we have spent
that energy do we not? It's problematic then that we can't "feel" ourselves burning it, unlike physical or mental resources that produce
very clear strain

 

[IllusiveOwl]

I'll throw my two cents in

This has been something on my mind as well; many of the ill and poorly functioning people I've had to supervise and exist near all had different diagnosis but in the end it came down to two things: energy mismanagement and energy depletion.

Another thing before I ramble on dayquil (I'm sick, physically and in the cool way ) all of us share a space and reality, but the cultures and views change; we all share the same world but just use different words to describe it, blind men and the elephant, etc, so synthesizing rather than comparing would bring about a more comprehensive understanding. So to answer your question, I think so yes.

What exactly is the best way to go about collecting and using energy? From what I understand, the alchemical flask is step 1: energy leaks through cracks (pet peeves, triggers, racism, biases, opinions, etc). If you get angry, or something startles you, that is energy being used fruitless. Most people live energetically from paycheck to paycheck, and therefore have no energy for bigger goals outside of survival... a shame. You may not realize just how much energy you waste emotionally on small, repetitive and meaningless things until you look objectively at yourself.

Once the flask is sealed, step 2: gather energy while in a passive, tranquil, unaffected state. Meditation is great for this. Then step 3: use your will to direct your gathered energy, Qi, Mana, etc. Much like with money, the more energy you have, the broader your horizon of ability becomes. You can see and act with more distance and ambition.

What's the source of this energy? I believe its our divine spark. And how can we vampirize more? This comes from your awareness and perspective. One common way I gain energy is through my environment; it doesn't matter where you are, if you're driving or doing something awful, look up at the blue sky, the white clouds, the greeness of leaves... empty your mind, soak in the simple beauty; its an endless source of Mana. You can also get it easily from positive interactions with people, this is a big reason why we interract at all in the first place.

That's all I can think of saying, hope it was close to the topic.

 

[Yazata]

In my simple way of thinking everything in a way is about creation. (hu)Man is created in the image of God, meaning we have the power to create = sexual energy.
If for some reason this is not used to make babies it is put to use in whatever way possible to make something (or yourself) better.
It is the Chi (key!) to everything.

 

[Aeternus]

In my simple way of thinking everything in a way is about creation. (hu)Man is created in the image of God, meaning we have the power to create = sexual energy.
If for some reason this is not used to make babies it is put to use in whatever way possible to make something (or yourself) better.
It is the Chi (key!) to everything.

Nice philosophy. I like it .

There are a lot of uses in terms of sexual / creative / generative energy. From empowering our wishes with it with using the specific sigil for that wish to various other strong purposes.

However, I want to add that why Chi is the external energy, it's the Jing energy that is the real key to everything! While Chi energy strongly resides and relies on external factors such as food, sleep, certain connections, etc, the Jing energy is the one that derives from the Chi energy.

For example, you eat food to stay healthy and energized (Chi) and you feel and have energy in your body and organs (Jing).

So, Jing would be the very powerful second key besides the Chi energy.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

sexual energy

Is capitalizing on this energy represented by the Kundalini rising from the pelvis to the mind? The two serpents of the caduceus leaving the belly to the pineal gland?

 

[Aeternus]

Is capitalizing on this energy represented by the Kundalini rising from the pelvis to the mind? The two serpents of the caduceus leaving the belly to the pineal gland?

It's more than that. Besides Kundalini which is a very strong practice in Tibetan occultism, sexual energy can be used to amplify a lot of energy related workings such as in sigil empowerment.

Imagine this energy as a very strong current / wave of intense potential and energy, that resides in you.

In some cultures, sexual energetic aspects are at core of the foundation itself.

 

[Yazata]

Is capitalizing on this energy represented by the Kundalini rising from the pelvis to the mind? The two serpents of the caduceus leaving the belly to the pineal gland?

I know it's not groundbreaking but I believe so yes, and from there you can even direct it back into the feet and then to the opposite hands and back to the core (to make a two-handed pentagram)

You align it with your breathing. Inhale from the genitals up, exhale from the head to the feet, inhale to the hands, exhale back to your genitals. To use it in a spell/ritual you "throw" it with your hands as you exhale after having ran the pentagram several times.

 

[Pyrokar]

Right, breathwork and sexual energy i forgot to add...
we're not quite addressing the quantity vs quality aspect (not that im convinced it's an actual factor yet)

what if, it's all the same "mana" but the manner in which we harvest/put it to work is what filters it into the end form
im still not convinced of either kundalini/sexual nor chi/jing being the ultimate aspect of it
also i forgot to note how via the middle pillar or similar practices the user doesn't actually give anything of themselves
but channels it from the outside inward and then as the yazman said back out again with the intent attached

looking good so far im getting some ideas already.

this line of thinking justifies tools like amulets and whatnot, of which im on the skeptical side but it makes some sense

 

[Robert Ramsay]

My two cents is that to achieve gnosis to program your intent, normally this is done via heightened emotional states, and this feels like 'energy', since most induced heightened emotional states rely on either fight/flight or sexual climax, all of which require bodily effort.

 

[Pyrokar]

My two cents is that to achieve gnosis to program your intent, normally this is done via heightened emotional states, and this feels like 'energy', since most induced heightened emotional states rely on either fight/flight or sexual climax, all of which require bodily effort.

alright i can roll with that, could you elaborate a bit though?
like, it can't be just emotion right?
thats reminiscent of Diliculo yelling angrily as a way to power a curse

Austin Spare, that's what this approach reminds me of. He noted climax is not the only one, fear and other states can be used the same

 

[Robert Ramsay]

alright i can roll with that, could you elaborate a bit though?
like, it can't be just emotion right?
thats reminiscent of Diliculo yelling angrily as a way to power a curse

Austin Spare, that's what this approach reminds me of. He noted climax is not the only one, fear and other states can be used the same

I see it as convincing yourself that your intent is real. I mean, you'd be pretty gorrram focussed if there was a tiger chasing after you
You can also do it with meditation, where the intent becomes your whole focus, but without 'lust of result'. Not sure I've ever done it like that so I'm sure some hardcore meditators can shed light on what their energy feels like when done this way.
Anyway, my point is whatever technique you use needs to have to result of programming you with "This is fucking important, man!" and you may or may not feel surges of energy whilst doing that.

 

[HoldAll]

Let us not forget that 'energy' is merely a metaphor to describe something we don't really have an appropriate word for and which probably can't be described anyway. When we talk about 'energy' in an occult context, our thinking is inevitably informed by the field of science the term has been taken from, i.e. physics, and that also means that we involuntarily make assumptions about its qualities, behaviour, etc. that conform to its counterparts in physics, typically electricity, heat or light. But do the laws of thermodynamics, for example, in fact apply to occult energy? Are we nothing but human batteries that are able to 'store' energy, that need to be topped us, or human dynamos generating it or borrowing it from other sources?

I think the main danger lies in envisioning this ineffable occult energy as an impersonal, neutral force that can power anything we put our minds to, just like electricity can be used to drive any electrical device we like. You read some authors and you'd think the chakra system is nothing but a circuit board - do some clever rewiring and you as good as automatically get your kundalini rising. Your spell didn't work? Heureka, insufficient energy, merely a quantitative problem of not enough 'juice' as a propellant behind it. And so on.

Anthropologists nowadays tend to use the word 'mana' which I like because it's free from all these simplicistic scientific and physical associations. It's personal and intentional, not impersonal and neutral, and what's more, it behaves in mysterious ways and not apparently predictably as described by Western science. Everything and everyone has their own kind of mana, always in flux, ever changing… I think we should look more into animist systems and shamanic traditions instead of making erroneous assumptions based on a pseudo-scientific understanding of occult power.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Let us not forget that 'energy' is merely a metaphor to describe something we don't really have an appropriate word for and which probably can't be described anyway.

When I talk about energy in this context, I guess what I really mean is how it feels to you rather than it being some actual power source. We can talk about how our energy levels are today (after work, after a good night's sleep etc.) without it needing to be some outside force that we tap into.

 

[stratamaster78]

There is a lot to unpack here and I really don't even know where to begin in adding thoughts.

Firstly I guess I've never really thought about the quantity or quality of my natural internal system and/or what storage limits would be but that is interesting to think about.

One of the first things I learned right or wrong was to not use my internal energy in Magick if possible because of how depleting it would be.

I'm guilty I suppose of only drawing in external chi/energy through visualization and breathwork and then directing that energy externally either into an object (talisman) or into geometric shapes (rituals).

The only internal use has been drawing in chi/energy to as HoldAll puts it to circulate it through a circuit board (chakra/Tree of Life Spheres).

I've especially never thought about just how much internal self energy only could you build up?

I've never thought I would be adequately talented to do anything like that for fear of also burning out or short circuiting my entire system.

If I've ever needed to build up large amounts of chi for a directed purpose I've created Talismans to store it in and build it up over a long period of time. Just thinking of it like and empty battery that I was filling up and charging to be released when I needed it.

But what if WE could actually be that battery? Is that possible without damaging our energy system?

 

[Pyrokar]

In my simple way of thinking everything in a way is about creation

i hate to be the edgelord (no i don't) but where does destruction fit in that then? also isn't it a slightly conflicting method, Angels and sex don't mix
or at the very least they should respond better to other sources of empowering?

It is the Chi to everything.

reported.

But what if WE could actually be that battery? Is that possible without damaging our energy system?

that's my train of thought so far. As i briefly mentioned either capacity, control or quality of the internal mana should be a direct implication of the
talent or "strength" of any observed magus. In the portrait of a mage thread we discussed that a mage simply exudes a "feeling" (should he wish it to be felt of course) that is a clear indication of their "power", therefore managing and mastering exactly our internal system should be a prime objective for our growth, it's also leading me to think about rituals and workings failing not just because the user has failed to do some arbitrary part of the process like hopping on his left leg three times (performing the ritual in only a physical aspect, like an actor on stage)
but because they simply do not have the capacity for the magnitude of the work? elevating this stat increases (in theory?) both the level of work one can do and the control of the system makes it actually more likely to be achieved

Post automatically merged: Jul 25, 2024

good note about the talismans. it's a great point to consider, we could in theory use them as external batteries of this personal mana
as a source of more difficult or complex workings, definatly something to consider further

 

[Yazata]

where does destruction fit in that then? also isn't it a slightly conflicting method, Angels and sex don't mix

The important part (that I may have not made clear) is that you should be able to "color" the energy. You build it up, neutralize it and then through running the pentagram (or any other system of energy nodes that's more traditional and therefore probably more acceptable for most) you add a flavor / a charge to it to serve your purpose. This is really the same principle as charging a sigil with your special liquids, or when you do the MPR and focus on one Sephira that is associated with the goal.

Sexual (life) energy is accessible to every healthy human and it makes you feel good. So to me that's preferable to anger or hate.

There are Angels of lust, sex and whoredom by the way. But that's not the point

 

[Khoren_]

where does destruction fit in that then?

what is destruction but a different shade of creation humblesagenod

 

[Pyrokar]

There are Angels of lust, sex and whoredom by the way

....my ninja that's a demon? "oh no you're just too ignorant it's actually the bla bla..." no that's literally a demon.

who are those angels, im asking for a friend

i guess i understand, but here's the twist as far as i can tell, sexual energy, and the process of ritualistic/symbolic of sex/creation are not the same?
as in, the energy built up into the process via focus on the sexy is not equal to the lets say your feminine hands thread, where the ritual
aspect is made to resemble the process of birth right? i know im wording it terribly, but i hope it was enough to point out the distinction

what is destruction but a different shade of creation

...i can't argue with that ...for now.

 

[Yazata]

sexual energy, and the process of ritualistic/symbolic of sex/creation are not the same?

No? Am I misunderstanding it now or what. Sex(ual desire) is a very potent (lol) way to build up / create energy or a drive ti get things done.
If you do not use that to get sex for one reason or another but instead want to use it for Magick (whichever kind) then you detach the lust from the energy so that you have a neutral power. Then you charge it / name it / whatever it so that it becomes a driving force for your ritual.

who are those angels

In the Dictionary of Angels a couple of Angels of "love" are given. There's also an (unnamed) Angel of Lust in there and I misrembered the Angel of Women's Paradise.
Pretty sure I read more somewhere. I will get back to this (sometime)

Edit:
In that book are an Angel if Fertility, one of Fornication and one of Perversion, one of Prostitution too.

Might be (considered) Fallen, yes..

 

[Pyrokar]

Am I misunderstanding it now or what

nah you're good i simply went onward with my train of thought it's an interesting distinction, a proper
hold and understanding of that view, having the ritual or working symbolically in the form of birth/creation as most of them should be
and then pair that with sexual energy. It sounds obvious but i think it's also an easily overlooked little tidbit, the two elements are not the same
-as in, if we are using this mode of energy then the related working should be structured in that creation sort of way for max potency, right?

im also now more leaning toward that life energy being the empirical mana of it all since it's most closely related to ordinary physical aspects of the human. it's easily linked to the general health and wellbeing of the practitioner. where-as belief or willpower charged workings don't share that
but there's more to be debated about that for sure.

-also alchemy, im severly lacking in that area but it seems likely it's connected to the sexual symbolism and a good place to figure
increasing one's capacity or harnessing of those energies, do we have anyone whos into alchemy to confirm or elaborate?