LBRP The GD version and alternatives

[whimsicalwarlock]

Hello All!

I have been using the GD version of the LBRP from Damien Echols' "High Magick"
When I use it everything feels fine with the angels (michael, uriel, etc) but something about using the names of god like Adonai and such just makes me feel sort of "icky"?

Idk how to really explain it. I think there might be some deeper levels of deconstruction that i might need to do as I had a "Christian" upbringing.

At first i didn't feel this because it was new or maybe i wasn't sensitive enough yet and i was just wanting to jump in, but the deeper i go, the more it feels off to me.
Starting out with it, i felt great.
I know some people here don't use LBRP (at least the GD version) and go for variations or completely different ritual all together.

Has anyone else experienced this as well?
Starting out okay and then slowly disliking it as time goes on? Or did you immediately dislike it and look for something else?
If you use something else instead, that provides the same or similar effect, what do you use?

Any input is appreciated!

 

[Amur]

LBRP is mostly used to reset the energies to something more Neutral or Spirit over Matter. It's a template from where to work magick. You can literally banish anything including yourself if you want. So it's more like a recipe to get into a neutral state where you don't let external or internal enerrgies affect your magickal working. That is why it's so useful.

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

LBRP is mostly used to reset the energies to something more Neutral or Spirit over Matter. It's a template from where to work magick. You can literally banish anything including yourself if you want. So it's more like a recipe to get into a neutral state where you don't let external or internal enerrgies affect your magickal working. That is why it's so useful.

Okay. So what is it that makes people want to not use it then? I know I see people talk about not liking the "standard" format.

 

[Amur]

Okay. So what is it that makes people want to not use it then? I know I see people talk about not liking the "standard" format.

Well it got strong ties to the Abrahamic version of God, which is God is allmighty and things like that. So it's a bit based on that kind of 'dogma'. But spiritually using that kind of pentagram for it is the heart of the operation and it can be adopted with other versions, God-forms and what not so the core of the ritual is still sound.

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

Well it got strong ties to the Abrahamic version of God, which is God is allmighty and things like that. So it's a bit based on that kind of 'dogma'. But spiritually using that kind of pentagram for it is the heart of the operation and it can be adopted with other versions, God-forms and what not so the core of the ritual is still sound.

Do you personally use the standard GD version? (If i may ask)

 

[Amur]

Do you personally use the standard GD version? (If i may ask)

Well I use my own personal elemental version but the God Names and Arch Angel names are the same. I banish all the elements while doing it.

 

[motzfeldt]

Look into perennialism. Once you realise that all religions point to the same universal truths and spiritual secrets, you'll come to realise that Christianity is (was) just the post-pagan European expression of those metaphysical truths. I am no Christian but have no problem using Judeo-Christian symbolism and names, etc., in my workings because I understand the archetypes behind them. I prefer to use pagan terminology and images and such when possible but I am equally happy to use any religious framework if it serves my needs.

 

[Amur]

Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh Fire-Water-Air-Earth. Adonai 'My Lord' EHEIEH 'I am'. Can't remember what AGLA was, but stands also for the 4 worlds.

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

Look into perennialism. Once you realise that all religions point to the same universal truths and spiritual secrets, you'll come to realise that Christianity is (was) just the post-pagan European expression of those metaphysical truths. I am no Christian but have no problem using Judeo-Christian symbolism and names, etc., in my workings because I understand the archetypes behind them. I prefer to use pagan terminology and images and such when possible but I am equally happy to use any religious framework if it serves my needs.

I think I've got some hang ups on the dogma of the mangled form of christianity i was raised with, it seems to be going back to that all the time.

 

[motzfeldt]

I think I've got some hang ups on the dogma of the mangled form of christianity i was raised with, it seems to be going back to that all the time.

As an organized religion it is utter dogshit yes, like Islam. If you study it purely from a spiritual point of view and ignore the hyper politicization then there are plenty of nuggets of truth to be unearthed. I would suggest reading about Gnosticism to get a better understanding of true Christianity before it was co-opted by the church and turned into a weapon.

In any case, if you want to avoid Christian frameworks entirely, then stick to pagan magic. Things like Helios Unbound and the PGM as brief examples.

 

[Amur]

"Christ wasn't a Christian, Buddha wasn't a Buddhist..." and so forth.

 

[HoldAll]

I think that Mathers just pulled some Qabalistic god names out of a hat when he wrote the LBRP so why don't you? For example, what about "Shaddai el Chai" from the Middle Pillar? I just love the sound of that one. This might well be an example for one of those 'barbarous names'/voces magicae effects where unintelligible words carry an emotional charge depending on the mix of vowels and consonants in it. For example, I personally have no problem with the god names in the LBRP but the 'Ha'arets' in the Middle Pillar ritual ('Adonai Ha'arets') sounds kinda jarring but then I'm only in my first week of doing it. Sounds work on the emotions, and if a word doesn't do anything for them, sounds threatening or annoying to you, it's innapropriate in a ritual (except where such an effect in intended; or when it takes some time for the full experience of a ritual to sink in, which I suspect is currently happening to me with the MR).

 

[Amur]

Shaddai = Allmighty El Chai = Living God, or that's what the AI said. But the meaning of Shaddai is something like 'breast' or a mountain. But El Chai means generally Life. So pretty interesting As for El Chai it fits the Sefira of Foundation which is the 9th sefira or Yesod. So not that out of the hat if you think about it.

On a further note if you're not into Qabbala or even Qabbalah thought you could just do an english version of all the God Names except Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh. Adonai'Ha-aretz for example Lord of the Earth and so forth. On another note you could do a LHP version where 'YOU' are the Lord of the Earth. Gives an extra energy to the ritual which is a bit like assuming a God-form.

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

As an organized religion it is utter dogshit yes, like Islam. If you study it purely from a spiritual point of view and ignore the hyper politicization then there are plenty of nuggets of truth to be unearthed. I would suggest reading about Gnosticism to get a better understanding of true Christianity before it was co-opted by the church and turned into a weapon.

In any case, if you want to avoid Christian frameworks entirely, then stick to pagan magic. Things like Helios Unbound and the PGM as brief examples.

Gnosticism is actually something that's greatly interested me because it makes a lot of sense to me as it answers a lot of questions or concerns i have regarding what feels like "loopholes" or inconsistencies.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

I think that Mathers just pulled some Qabalistic god names out of a hat when he wrote the LBRP so why don't you? For example, what about "Shaddai el Chai" from the Middle Pillar? I just love the sound of that one. This might well be an example for one of those 'barbarous names'/voces magicae effects where unintelligible words carry an emotional charge depending on the mix of vowels and consonants in it. For example, I personally have no problem with the god names in the LBRP but the 'Ha'arets' in the Middle Pillar ritual ('Adonai Ha'arets') sounds kinda jarring but then I'm only in my first week of doing it. Sounds work on the emotions, and if a word doesn't do anything for them, sounds threatening or annoying to you, it's innapropriate in a ritual (except where such an effect in intended; or when it takes some time for the full experience of a ritual to sink in, which I suspect is currently happening to me with the MR).

(except where such an effect in intended; or when it takes some time for the full experience of a ritual to sink in, which I suspect is currently happening to me with the MR). What is MR? (I'm not savvy with all the lingo yet.)

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

Shaddai = Allmighty El Chai = Living God, or that's what the AI said. But the meaning of Shaddai is something like 'breast' or a mountain. But El Chai means generally Life. So pretty interesting As for El Chai it fits the Sefira of Foundation which is the 9th sefira or Yesod. So not that out of the hat if you think about it.

On a further note if you're not into Qabbala or even Qabbalah thought you could just do an english version of all the God Names except Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh. Adonai'Ha-aretz for example Lord of the Earth and so forth. On another note you could do a LHP version where 'YOU' are the Lord of the Earth. Gives an extra energy to the ritual which is a bit like assuming a God-form.

I've definitely been feeling called to the LHP lately so thats definitely something i'd be interested in learning about. Do you know of any specific sources that have a pre-made format for it? I'm still very new at this lol

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

I think that Mathers just pulled some Qabalistic god names out of a hat when he wrote the LBRP so why don't you? For example, what about "Shaddai el Chai" from the Middle Pillar? I just love the sound of that one. This might well be an example for one of those 'barbarous names'/voces magicae effects where unintelligible words carry an emotional charge depending on the mix of vowels and consonants in it. For example, I personally have no problem with the god names in the LBRP but the 'Ha'arets' in the Middle Pillar ritual ('Adonai Ha'arets') sounds kinda jarring but then I'm only in my first week of doing it. Sounds work on the emotions, and if a word doesn't do anything for them, sounds threatening or annoying to you, it's innapropriate in a ritual (except where such an effect in intended; or when it takes some time for the full experience of a ritual to sink in, which I suspect is currently happening to me with the MR).

My issue is I doubt myself a lot still and I am also my biggest critic as well as being a perfectionist. So id feel really silly trying to figure out my own way of doing it by experimenting with sounds. Id doubt myself soooo hard if i tried this.

 

[Amur]

Just search for something like "Taking a God-form".

 

[HoldAll]

Gnosticism is actually something that's greatly interested me because it makes a lot of sense to me as it answers a lot of questions or concerns i have regarding what feels like "loopholes" or inconsistencies.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

(except where such an effect in intended; or when it takes some time for the full experience of a ritual to sink in, which I suspect is currently happening to me with the MR). What is MR? (I'm not savvy with all the lingo yet.)

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

I've definitely been feeling called to the LHP lately so thats definitely something i'd be interested in learning about. Do you know of any specific sources that have a pre-made format for it? I'm still very new at this lol

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

My issue is I doubt myself a lot still and I am also my biggest critic as well as being a perfectionist. So id feel really silly trying to figure out my own way of doing it by experimenting with sounds. Id doubt myself soooo hard if i tried this.

Sorry, that should have been 'MP', the

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Exercise popularized by Israel Regardie - you're supposed to practice the LBRP daily for at least a month before you add it to the LBRP (took me longer because I felt like I still hadn't got a handle on the LBRP, I'm a perfectionist just like you ).

The part with the four godnames is basically the same as what Wiccans/pagans dub "calling the quarters", i.e. saluting the four cardinal directions. What's different about the LBRP is that you additionally trace pentagrams which represent human beings (the five points stand for two legs, two arms and a head) and thus act as 'sentinels' guarding one's sacred space (my own personal interpretation).

The Middle Pillar seems to be more about internal alignment as opposed to creating an external sacred space like in the LBRP but like I said, I've been only practising it for a week and therefore feel not qualified to pass an informed verdict yet. This morning it occurred to me that perhaps the 'Ha'arets' (full godname 'Adonai Ha'arets') I'm not so fond was meant to be jarring because you say it while visualizing light descending to form a sphere at the feet. Feet = Malkuth, the material realm we're living it which isn't always pretty, so a harsh-sounding godname would be appropriate. So it could mean something if a certain godname makes you feel icky, something you need to work on; however, it might not be that important either, it's your personal feeling that counts.

 

[Amur]

Something about the Middle Pillar and Sefirot (Tree of life) is that it's roots are in the Crown and the branches are at the Feet. So it's like God Descending instead of God Ascending. Something worthy to notice. This is a very different approach than to the chakra system etc. other systems.

 

[whimsicalwarlock]

As an organized religion it is utter dogshit yes, like Islam. If you study it purely from a spiritual point of view and ignore the hyper politicization then there are plenty of nuggets of truth to be unearthed. I would suggest reading about Gnosticism to get a better understanding of true Christianity before it was co-opted by the church and turned into a weapon.

In any case, if you want to avoid Christian frameworks entirely, then stick to pagan magic. Things like Helios Unbound and the PGM as brief examples.

Sorry, that should have been 'MP', the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Exercise popularized by Israel Regardie - you're supposed to practice the LBRP daily for at least a month before you add it to the LBRP (took me longer because I felt like I still hadn't got a handle on the LBRP, I'm a perfectionist just like you ).

The part with the four godnames is basically the same as what Wiccans/pagans dub "calling the quarters", i.e. saluting the four cardinal directions. What's different about the LBRP is that you additionally trace pentagrams which represent human beings (the five points stand for two legs, two arms and a head) and thus act as 'sentinels' guarding one's sacred space (my own personal interpretation).

The Middle Pillar seems to be more about internal alignment as opposed to creating an external sacred space like in the LBRP but like I said, I've been only practising it for a week and therefore feel not qualified to pass an informed verdict yet. This morning it occurred to me that perhaps the 'Ha'arets' (full godname 'Adonai Ha'arets') I'm not so fond was meant to be jarring because you say it while visualizing light descending to form a sphere at the feet. Feet = Malkuth, the material realm we're living it which isn't always pretty, so a harsh-sounding godname would be appropriate. So it could mean something if a certain godname makes you feel icky, something you need to work on; however, it might not be that important either, it's your personal feeling that counts.

I think its coming down to some dogmatic baggage I'm still subconsciously carrying around. Even just reflecting on it after making this post I feel like I've already made some progress in dealing with it. It continuously surprises me just how deep the subconscious training can go when you're indoctrinated into a mutilated religion from a very young age. I always think I've dealt with it and then something pops up emphasizing that the root goes even deeper still.

I appreciate your input.

 

[Audiolog Edu]

I practice Ogdoadic method and I like it very much, it has the egregores of the Greek guardians of the elements but you also learn hebrew Archangels wich predate Rafael, Gabriel, Michael and Uriel. This means is an older Magickal tradition than Golden Dawn as well and is very strong. The banishing in this tradition is simpler but it does the work, it banishes elemental forces with the use of pentagrams and vibration of divine names, as a magician shows that you are in comand of elemental forces only to invoke this symbolic egregores as guardians of the Magick Circle, just as the Christianized counterpart Golden Dawn the tradition I practice uses visualization of this Egregores (Special clothing w/colors, magickal tools, elemental forces, Etc.), and calls upon them for protection. This being the end of the ritual for Banishing and Invoking wich you can imagine they are linked together and is explained why in the books.

 

[Jhary-a-Conel]

It’s just bedtime Shema with added guff innit?