Summoning Spirits outside of the usual means

[lumineth Realm Lord]

So, I might be wrong, but in the Western traditions, the main place to find methods of conjuring spirits is in the Abrahamic tradition. As in to say, conjuring angels and demons utilizing the names of the Abrahamic God.

Frankly, I'm not sure why this is. The god i read about in these Grimiores comes off as very different than the one I'd hear about in church. As in to say, if you were raised in the church, you would've been taught that God doesn't permit interaction between humans and spirits. Then you find a catalog of spirits you could summon. Provided you're utilizing his name to do so. Whether or not this god promotes this practice, he is involved.

This seems like something a god like Odin or Hecate would do. As in to say, a god who holds domain over magic, spells, and spirits, having an assortment of beings the average magician can call upon to aid in both the most mundane, and arcane, of concerns, providing a manual on the conjuration of these beings, and instructions on etiquette and offerings. I mean, I'd be happy to conjure elves for healing and protection, or dwarves for knowledge and wealth.

So, does the practice of spirit summoning exist in other traditions? Perhaps in a less dramatic way than that of the Goetia?

 

[Lurker]

As in to say, if you were raised in the church, you would've been taught that God doesn't permit interaction between humans and spirits.

So, does the practice of spirit summoning exist in other traditions? Perhaps in a less dramatic way than that of the Goetia?

I would like to address both of those issues, because I was raised in the Christian Spiritualist tradition. My grandmother was the main preacher of her own small church, which had a regular congregation of about 40 people. I witnessed this every Sunday for the first 11 years of my life, until my grandmother eventually fell ill and passed away. The early part of each service consisted of lots of hymn singing, healing, and first sermon, which was delivered by another preacher. During the early part of the service, my grandmother would sit in the church kitchen and meditate until she went into a trance. Then, when it was time, she would enter the church proper and her spirit guide would deliver the keynote sermon through her.

One of the things I look back at since becoming an occultist is how we sang lots of hymns, and I mean the whole congregation sang. I realize now it was a great way to raise energy.

All that being said, there was no magic in the sense that we know it as. It was just meditation -> trance -> spirit contact by a very devout Christian Spiritualist medium.

 

[lumineth Realm Lord]

Well, I can't say I have any first hand experience in Christian spiritualism. I come from a Southern Baptist background. And sure, I agree. There is energy work and meditation involved in church service. However, I'm talking about conjuring spirits. Which, getting into this, you were told that this purely something that witches and satanists do. But SURPRISE! You're calling on the Abrahamic God to do so. That's my point.

Again, I can see Odin collecting some spirits, having them pledge to help people in exchange for offerings, and handing out a manual to do this. Odin promotes magical practice, or at least that's how he comes across to me.

Again, I'm asking that, in the practice of conjuring spirits, is there something like this but for other cultures?

 

[SeekerPS]

Well, I can't say I have any first hand experience in Christian spiritualism. I come from a Southern Baptist background. And sure, I agree. There is energy work and meditation involved in church service. However, I'm talking about conjuring spirits. Which, getting into this, you were told that this purely something that witches and satanists do. But SURPRISE! You're calling on the Abrahamic God to do so. That's my point.

Again, I can see Odin collecting some spirits, having them pledge to help people in exchange for offerings, and handing out a manual to do this. Odin promotes magical practice, or at least that's how he comes across to me.

Again, I'm asking that, in the practice of conjuring spirits, is there something like this but for other cultures?

The god of the grimoires is more close to tje aristhotelic unmoved mover, than to the talmudic god YHWH. The latter one is more close to an aspect of it. YHWH started in a politheistic pantheon that then became monotheistic.

the spanish book of saint ciprian explains it better, as the eternal principle

 

[Yazata]

So, I might be wrong, but in the Western traditions, the main place to find methods of conjuring spirits is in the Abrahamic tradition. As in to say, conjuring angels and demons utilizing the names of the Abrahamic God.

Frankly, I'm not sure why this is. The god i read about in these Grimiores comes off as very different than the one I'd hear about in church. As in to say, if you were raised in the church, you would've been taught that God doesn't permit interaction between humans and spirits. Then you find a catalog of spirits you could summon. Provided you're utilizing his name to do so. Whether or not this god promotes this practice, he is involved.

This seems like something a god like Odin or Hecate would do. As in to say, a god who holds domain over magic, spells, and spirits, having an assortment of beings the average magician can call upon to aid in both the most mundane, and arcane, of concerns, providing a manual on the conjuration of these beings, and instructions on etiquette and offerings. I mean, I'd be happy to conjure elves for healing and protection, or dwarves for knowledge and wealth.

So, does the practice of spirit summoning exist in other traditions? Perhaps in a less dramatic way than that of the Goetia?

Last week or so I heard about this thing called Demonolatry. They use "Enns" which (to most who use them) are made up words that are chanted like a mantra to put you in a trance like state while you gaze at / into the seal of the Spirit. Might be what you are looking for.

 

[HoldAll]

In Christianity this practice probably started with prayers for intercession which are pretty pointless if you think about it logically because if everything is God's will, you can't sway Him anyway - you might pray for the protection of your family, for example, but if He wants to destroy it for your sins, there's nothing you can do.

One explanation is that this is the reason why believers prayed to the saints, the Virgin Mary or angels instead because they felt that their word carried more weight with God and consequently their wishes were supposed to have a better chance of being granted, so this may be the origin of summoning spirits in Christianity. Some time ago I had the idea of somehow crafting a master ritual for the

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and even posted two books about them but didn't get anywhere with this project.

The Catholic saints resemble the spirits employed in learned Renaissance magic insofar as they all have distinct offices, or are the patron saints of certain professions, e.g. Saint Barbara for miners, architects and chemical engineers. However, not all human needs were felt to be covered by such virtuous entities so operators turned to demons for more selfish aims frowned upon or condemned by the Church (the old "money, sex, and power" trinity). Nevertheless the Christian god is dragged into the whole shady demon summoning business because to call upon Him implies an assumption of authority on the part of the operator - you go to the top dog of the hierarchy of your paradigm in the hope that He will confer upon the power to command all spirits subordinate to Him; I suspect a similary philosophy applies to djinn summoning in Islam (although I personally know next to nothing about djinns).

I don't think there has ever been a demon summoning tradition on a folk magic level. Demons were what you exorcised, feared or propitiated, not played around with because you had too much to lose, not only your immortal soul but also your capacity to work in the fields, your cows or the next harvest. Evil or wilful spirits often don't have specific names in folk tales, with the Japanese yokai being the only exception I can think of (there could be others of course). Faustian pacts with the devil if peasants felt really desperate but not trafficking with demons on a regular basis.

 

[lumineth Realm Lord]

I never said that you'd have to work with demons. I did mention that, if there was such a practice in the Nordic tradition, I can see people calling on Elves and Dwarves.

 

[Morell]

So, does the practice of spirit summoning exist in other traditions? Perhaps in a less dramatic way than that of the Goetia?

100%
It does, though the approach can be quite different. I can speak about Norse paganism, where there definitely is a tradition of summoning spirits, but not in magic circle. According to legends Odinn was using corpses for summoning the dead. The hiddenfolk (faires) were given offerings to keep on their good side, among elves were also human ancestors, it can get quite complex.
But Norse tradition is rather about going towards the spirits rather than calling them to come to you. I think it's the same with shamanism. you go to the spirits, not spirits going to you.
Of course in modern era both styles are used as people get inspired from each other.

 

[FireBorn]

My path would be closest to Demonolatry. That said, I use zero protection ever. I develop relationship with the spirits, and let them come as they are or choose to be rather than from some dead dudes lens from an over-gorified grimoire (absolutely stuffed with Christian framework by the way). I am neurodivergent so I dont need a ritual to get into magickal trance, so I can invoke without the fanfare (one of the few absolute super powers of the Neurodivergent minds).
I could never get over the hump to use the grimoires with the Christian gods name (for protection) who I dont even believe in, yet invoke the name so I could invoke demons safely. Yeah yeah, unpopular opinion, but this is the logic that I used to ditch the Christian and Abrahamic lens. It is everwhere!
Summoning spirits in the Western systems is based on the Christian framework. It does not have to be like this if you dont want it to be. You can summon spirits without names of Yhvh or his ilk. You do not have to follow someone elses "rules" or dogmas (I do reccomend that if you are new, you stick with some kind of system, or get with someone who can guide you. Josephine McCarthy has some free online shit you can learn from). YMMV.
This is just based on my path, my experiences, and how I see it today. It is all likely to change as I grow. If something resonates with you, use it and burn the rest. Im not a teacher, I sell nothing, I am not a guru. Just a dude out in the woods living the ritual.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

How do you go about developing a relationship with the spirit? I want to work with the goetia but don’t feel all the pomp and circumstance is truly necessary…I’m also neurodivergent like you

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:35 AM

My path would be closest to Demonolatry. That said, I use zero protection ever. I develop relationship with the spirits, and let them come as they are or choose to be rather than from some dead dudes lens from an over-gorified grimoire (absolutely stuffed with Christian framework by the way). I am neurodivergent so I dont need a ritual to get into magickal trance, so I can invoke without the fanfare (one of the few absolute super powers of the Neurodivergent minds).
I could never get over the hump to use the grimoires with the Christian gods name (for protection) who I dont even believe in, yet invoke the name so I could invoke demons safely. Yeah yeah, unpopular opinion, but this is the logic that I used to ditch the Christian and Abrahamic lens. It is everwhere!
Summoning spirits in the Western systems is based on the Christian framework. It does not have to be like this if you dont want it to be. You can summon spirits without names of Yhvh or his ilk. You do not have to follow someone elses "rules" or dogmas (I do reccomend that if you are new, you stick with some kind of system, or get with someone who can guide you. Josephine McCarthy has some free online shit you can learn from). YMMV.
This is just based on my path, my experiences, and how I see it today. It is all likely to change as I grow. If something resonates with you, use it and burn the rest. Im not a teacher, I sell nothing, I am not a guru. Just a dude out in the woods living the ritual.

How do you go about developing a relationship with the spirit? I want to work with the goetia but don’t feel all the pomp and circumstance is truly necessary…I’m also neurodivergent like you

 

[FireBorn]

If I want to work with a demon I’ve never worked with before, I usually begin with a formal ritual. Not because I think it’s required, but because I think it’s respectful, and it helps me drop into the right mindset for that initial contact.

When I make contact, I ask the demon to teach me. Not to teach me a specific thing (although sometimes that is helpful), I just trust that what I need will align with their current and my path, if not, I thank them and move on. I know that might sound odd to some, but I don’t work in a rigid system and I’m not interested in control.

No protection. This is not something most agree with, and I get that. I want relationship, and to me, protection sends the wrong message. This is a relationship, not a transaction. If that's not your thing, no worries you do you.

That’s where it starts: trust and authenticity. Sometimes that means showing up scared shitless. Just showing up, real and raw. That’s enough.

Demons clock your authenticity more than anything else. Are you genuinely here to learn, or are you putting on a performance trying to impress with some mangled Latin? They’ll meet you where you are. But only if you are where you are.

After initial contact, once the demon agrees to teach, then next time you go into magickal trance (however you get there, with or without ritual) and let the lessons come. You say thank you. You repeat as needed. Some lessons will shake you to your bones and take days or weeks to integrate. Others will roll right through you and leave you ready for more the next night.

There are no universal rules. Just:
– What can you handle?
– What can you hold?
– How deep can you go right now?

Let that be your framework. Start slow. Listen to your intuition. Especially if you’re ND, yeah, sometimes we can take on more, go deeper, drop faster. But don’t let that tempt you into working with too many spirits at once. Trust me, I’ve done it. Felt the burn.

Learn the voice of each demon. Learn their current, their energetic fingerprint. Because once you know what’s real, you’ll also know when a mimic shows up trying to bait you. And they will.

Stay sharp. Stay honest. That’s how the relationship grows. I hope something helps you make contact. If I was too vague, I'm happy to drop in at 5k feet on any one point. This is just my experience, its not the only way to do it. There are others here who do similar things, some more formal, but relational as well. Hopefully they will chime in so you can hear a well rounded set of takes.

If you have other questions about being ND doing magick, feel free to DM. I will answer what I can, and be honest about what I can't.

 

[cormundum]

That's because you're ignorant of theology and Scripture. You're not to blame, unfortunately there is no body of Christian faithful that actually addresses any of these matters.

In all four Gospels, and the book of Acts, it is recorded that either Jesus Himself cast out demons by the authority God the Father gave Him, or else the Apostles, or even non-believers such as the Pharisaical Jews, cast out demons in His name. The letters of Saint Paul, bearing the authority of Apostolic Tradition, teaches that all baptized and believing Christians are given the same authority that Christ has over demons (implication of Ephesians 2:6), so through the authority of God, we can command and exorcise wicked spirits.

The theology of the grimoires is not a "spirit friendly" theology that endorses being besties with demons. Essentially, if you adopt the attitude of the grimoires and the philosophers such as Agrippa, you come to the place that the conjurations of the grimoires are not meant to bring you the spirits to hang-out and have a nice little chat, exchanging biscuits and tea for mutual favors, but to constrain their evil powers and force them to work for you — with the sword in your hand serving as the guarantor of their obedience. Basically, you call on them in the name of God to bring them to account for their errors and for misleading the human race, which is why the Creator of the Universe and King of All is called upon in these invocations.

Regarding "mundane and magickal goals," God appears throughout the Old Testament — often through the agency of His angels — to heal the demon possessed (David and Saul in Samuel), miraculously restore infertile women to fecundity, granting wealth and wisdom to kings, stopping the sun in the sky, and more. The God of the Bible, between Christian as well as Jewish traditions, is very much involved with human affairs; He's not some abstract concept of "unity" or "interconnectedness" or just some Creator who left us all to our own devices. Nothing Hekate/Odin/Loki/Horus about it. All the promises of the Old Testament for if the Children of Israel hold up their end of the Torah-deal relate to good crops, fertility of humans and animals, and milk and honey flowing from the earth.

Considering you seem to have the demon obsession most newbies have, I recommend looking to grimoires such as the Arbatel which have an overtly angelic, Divine focus, rather than wicked spirits. The theology is a lot more consistent, and working with them seems to make more holistic people rather than focusing almost exclusively on the earthbound spirits of that popular book in the Lemegeton. Study Agrippa a bit more, he gives a far more sound philosophical basis to the entirety of magickal working than any of the modern writers.

 

[lumineth Realm Lord]

That's because you're ignorant of theology and Scripture. You're not to blame, unfortunately there is no body of Christian faithful that actually addresses any of these matters.

In all four Gospels, and the book of Acts, it is recorded that either Jesus Himself cast out demons by the authority God the Father gave Him, or else the Apostles, or even non-believers such as the Pharisaical Jews, cast out demons in His name. The letters of Saint Paul, bearing the authority of Apostolic Tradition, teaches that all baptized and believing Christians are given the same authority that Christ has over demons (implication of Ephesians 2:6), so through the authority of God, we can command and exorcise wicked spirits.

The theology of the grimoires is not a "spirit friendly" theology that endorses being besties with demons. Essentially, if you adopt the attitude of the grimoires and the philosophers such as Agrippa, you come to the place that the conjurations of the grimoires are not meant to bring you the spirits to hang-out and have a nice little chat, exchanging biscuits and tea for mutual favors, but to constrain their evil powers and force them to work for you — with the sword in your hand serving as the guarantor of their obedience. Basically, you call on them in the name of God to bring them to account for their errors and for misleading the human race, which is why the Creator of the Universe and King of All is called upon in these invocations.

Regarding "mundane and magickal goals," God appears throughout the Old Testament — often through the agency of His angels — to heal the demon possessed (David and Saul in Samuel), miraculously restore infertile women to fecundity, granting wealth and wisdom to kings, stopping the sun in the sky, and more. The God of the Bible, between Christian as well as Jewish traditions, is very much involved with human affairs; He's not some abstract concept of "unity" or "interconnectedness" or just some Creator who left us all to our own devices. Nothing Hekate/Odin/Loki/Horus about it. All the promises of the Old Testament for if the Children of Israel hold up their end of the Torah-deal relate to good crops, fertility of humans and animals, and milk and honey flowing from the earth.

Considering you seem to have the demon obsession most newbies have, I recommend looking to grimoires such as the Arbatel which have an overtly angelic, Divine focus, rather than wicked spirits. The theology is a lot more consistent, and working with them seems to make more holistic people rather than focusing almost exclusively on the earthbound spirits of that popular book in the Lemegeton. Study Agrippa a bit more, he gives a far more sound philosophical basis to the entirety of magickal working than any of the modern writers.

Why are you here?

 

[FireBorn]

That's because you're ignorant of theology and Scripture. You're not to blame, unfortunately there is no body of Christian faithful that actually addresses any of these matters.

Seems like you are ignorant of the sub-forum you are posting in. You are to blame. I might have just let it go with your Jesus bullshit if you had said 'This is my belief' but you came in here telling others they are ignorant for not having your belief. Keep your Jesus, in fact take with you when you leave. Read the forum sub title next time.

 

[KjEno186]

The God of the Bible, between Christian as well as Jewish traditions, is very much involved with human affairs; He's not some abstract concept of "unity" or "interconnectedness" or just some Creator who left us all to our own devices.

The Old Testament Bible is an amalgamation of redacted stories from various time periods compiled by scribes and presented as "history" when Jerusalem was rebuilt in the 4-5th centuries C.E. The incredible contradictions in the texts themselves are readily apparent to anyone who has actually studied them, and I have. The daemon Yahweh-Elohim has had regular blood sacrifices from that time period on, even today with all the Kosher blood offerings by Rabbis. Of course, the Gnostics had the idea that something wasn't right, and called "God" the Demiurge, or "ignorant Creator". They likely assumed in error that Yahweh-Elohim actually did create the Heavens and the Earth according to the Genesis myth. Flawed premises lead to flawed conclusions. Even worse, assuming one has the only "truth" is like locking oneself in a cage and throwing the key far away from oneself. I'm absolutely certain I do not have all the facts, but I am equally certain nobody else does either. I've lived my life around true believers, and it's not a pretty picture.

Now, I happen to like the Gospels. Of all the Biblical books, they are quite magical and contain some hidden gems. However, 2 Timothy 3:16 is the mother of many logical fallacies when it makes the bold claim that "all scripture is inspired of God." This is the Key to the Christian Slave Mentality. Compare Jeremiah 8:8. Apologists will always want to have their cake and eat it too. The sad part about Christianity is that Jesus never actually existed as a man, died, or shed his blood. The blood on the Cross comes from martyrs and from those slain in battle by "Christian" armies. Additionally, the Catholic and Orthodox Churches used rituals and traditions transferred over from the "converted". It is ironic that The Bible condemns offerings to "demons" while at the same time Saint "worship" involved sacrifices for favor from spirits. Were they daemons or the dead (necromancy)? One could argue either way on that. In Voodoo, Santeria, etc., it is well known that the "Saints" are but masks for spirits or Lwa, as they call them.

I suspect that in the grimoires the summoned daemons told "of their downfall" with fanciful stories that appealed to the summoners. If anyone knows where one of these accounts was written in detail, I'd enjoy reading it and comparing the information to what I already know.

So, does the practice of spirit summoning exist in other traditions?

Absolutely. It helps if you feel some attraction to the mythology of the tradition you choose. The spirits will behave in accordance with your expectations.

 

[cormundum]

Why are you here?

I saw your post on a subject that I happen to have devoted a large amount of my life to studying and practicing. Didn't notice it was in the LHP forum, oops. That doesn't change what I said about the foundational worldview of the grimoire tradition.

Seems like you are ignorant of the sub-forum you are posting in. You are to blame. I might have just let it go with your Jesus bullshit if you had said 'This is my belief' but you came in here telling others they are ignorant for not having your belief. Keep your Jesus, in fact take with you when you leave. Read the forum sub title next time.

It appears you lack reading comprehension due to blindness caused by hatred. The question was about how the God of the grimoires is invoked in magickal operations, even though that doesn't seem to be the sort of thing the God of Christianity or Judaism is down with. I answered it faithfully. I'm not saying anybody is ignorant for not believing in Jesus in my post, simply replying to an inquiry as to why the grimoires invoke YHVH Tzebaoth and Jesus Christ in their invocations. There wasn't a lick of proselytization, moralization, or anything of the sort in my post, so no rules broken. Just a nice, clean answer to a question regarding something I happen to be something of an expert in.

 

[lumineth Realm Lord]

The Old Testament Bible is an amalgamation of redacted stories from various time periods compiled by scribes and presented as "history" when Jerusalem was rebuilt in the 4-5th centuries C.E. The incredible contradictions in the texts themselves are readily apparent to anyone who has actually studied them, and I have. The daemon Yahweh-Elohim has had regular blood sacrifices from that time period on, even today with all the Kosher blood offerings by Rabbis. Of course, the Gnostics had the idea that something wasn't right, and called "God" the Demiurge, or "ignorant Creator". They likely assumed in error that Yahweh-Elohim actually did create the Heavens and the Earth according to the Genesis myth. Flawed premises lead to flawed conclusions. Even worse, assuming one has the only "truth" is like locking oneself in a cage and throwing the key far away from oneself. I'm absolutely certain I do not have all the facts, but I am equally certain nobody else does either. I've lived my life around true believers, and it's not a pretty picture.

Now, I happen to like the Gospels. Of all the Biblical books, they are quite magical and contain some hidden gems. However, 2 Timothy 3:16 is the mother of many logical fallacies when it makes the bold claim that "all scripture is inspired of God." This is the Key to the Christian Slave Mentality. Compare Jeremiah 8:8. Apologists will always want to have their cake and eat it too. The sad part about Christianity is that Jesus never actually existed as a man, died, or shed his blood. The blood on the Cross comes from martyrs and from those slain in battle by "Christian" armies. Additionally, the Catholic and Orthodox Churches used rituals and traditions transferred over from the "converted". It is ironic that The Bible condemns offerings to "demons" while at the same time Saint "worship" involved sacrifices for favor from spirits. Were they daemons or the dead (necromancy)? One could argue either way on that. In Voodoo, Santeria, etc., it is well known that the "Saints" are but masks for spirits or Lwa, as they call them.

I suspect that in the grimoires the summoned daemons told "of their downfall" with fanciful stories that appealed to the summoners. If anyone knows where one of these accounts was written in detail, I'd enjoy reading it and comparing the information to what I already know.


Absolutely. It helps if you feel some attraction to the mythology of the tradition you choose. The spirits will behave in accordance with your expectations.

I'm honestly willing to take the word of old classic Grimiores over the Bible. These books represent someone else's experiences, are unedited (or not as much as the bible), and show you how to recreate the writers experiences. Or something similar.

Where as the bible has been written and rewritten, translated and retranslated, edited and re-edited. It's very suspect. Especially when you have to rely on someone else to tell you what God would want. If you care to even find out.