Egocentrism and Magic

[Kepler]

Graduate students are the worst.

There was a Crowley forum that through uneven moderation self-importanted itself into isolation, oblivion then damnatio memoriae. It's legacy so secondhand embarrassing it is to hardly be discussed. It platformed egocentricism to such a degree that the people that worked on things for the website decades ago don't even mention the place.

One of the blindingly funny things posted on the site before it closed was a serious post from one of the outspoken users(I called them General Hand Grenade) that boasted on why people didn't want to join the forum because they(the few forumites left) were too good at Thelema. That is on top of repeatedly boasting that the website and themselves were indispensable and important.

 

[HoldAll]

Elitism is another trap. Calling oneself 'spiritual' or an occultist does NOT elevate us above the 'common herd' of so-called muggles or normies (how I hate that word!). We're not the one's who really know what's going one while everybody else is just a blind meat puppet zombified by crass consumerism and social media.

I think we don't need to be humble as much as we should prepared to be humbled by our experiences and studies. To be aghast at one's own ignorance or foolishness once in a while should be seen (and deeply felt!) as a healthy and rewarding insight, as a sign that one's making progress. The OP is right in that 'brutal honesty' is a good antidote here, provided it doesn't become yet another self-serving pose ("I'm more brutally honest than you, so shut up!").

 

[aviaf]

That kind of posturing is honestly why I stepped away from the O.T.O. in the first place, and why I don’t really spend much time talking about Mr. C. People’s opinions on him swing between worship and outright disdain, and I got tired of the politics and the self-importance contests.

It’s funny how often occult circles recreate the same power games you’d find in any corporate boardroom or college debate club—just with fancier robes and more Latin. That’s why I think what you said about being prepared to be humbled is crucial. A little awe at our own foolishness goes a long way. Otherwise, it’s just egos in cosplay.

 

[frater_pan]

There was a Crowley forum that through uneven moderation self-importanted itself into isolation, oblivion then damnatio memoriae. It's legacy so secondhand embarrassing it is to hardly be discussed. It platformed egocentricism to such a degree that the people that worked on things for the website decades ago don't even mention the place.

Presumably you mean LAShTAL.com. OTOH they were available online for 30 years. OTOH they were shut down in the end by their site owner. So, while heavily egocentric, they weren't wiped out by egocentricism per se. There were also proposals to keep the site up under other ownership.

Currently even their archives are practically impossible to access. It's as if they were the ancient city of Tanis, covered by a sandstorm that lasted over a year and are now lost. "Wiped clean by the wrath of God." (Raiders of the Lost Ark reference)

 

[Kepler]

Presumably you mean LAShTAL.com. OTOH they were available online for 30 years. OTOH they were shut down in the end by their site owner. So, while heavily egocentric, they weren't wiped out by egocentricism per se. There were also proposals to keep the site up under other ownership.

Currently even their archives are practically impossible to access. It's as if they were the ancient city of Tanis, covered by a sandstorm that lasted over a year and are now lost. "Wiped clean by the wrath of God." (Raiders of the Lost Ark reference)

I joined in 2006 to investigate an entity. Got my answer in 2021 and closed my account. Didn't follow the site much before or after.
Considering the abruptness of the closure compared to when ianrons quit dramatically with that sacrifice pic, my guess was to signify sacrificing the site as his baby, sudden departures were established.

I saw proposals to keep the site up discussed on reddit. Along with the remaining userbase in that discussion showing no sign of self-reflection on how they themselves contributed to its demise. It was someone else's fault.

I'm appreciative of the site owner for not allowing access to the archives. The site got co-opted by a few blowhards that aren't socialized well enough to be on other forums. Many users who left over the years that contributed to the site wouldn't want to be part of a foundation to provide unfounded validation and keep platforming them.

 

[TheKEKist]

My experience, thought, and understanding of our endeavors require consistent learning, thought, efforts, and reflection to balance. LHP being that of seeking and incorporating our EGO as the RHP being the persuasion of EGO dissolution... My understanding is that we cannot rise into the higher realms with our both wings (hands) and thus internal alchemy is naught but required to allow coagulation of our solved EGO. I feel and believe that a tempered, refined, and polished EGOTISM is required for our continued progress to whatever goal we/me/ewe may fancy.
Sadly many choose a single path rather than being able to observe, seek, participate, and comprehend the entirety of which we desire "enlightenment' .

As it is said, "There is more than one way to skin a man, and however we choose will require us to deal with the mess if we want to continue to progress"

Post automatically merged: Sep 28, 2025

'Our both wings'

 

[frater_pan]

I'm appreciative of the site owner for not allowing access to the archives.

The issue is that there was a great deal of wheat amongst the chaff and now none of it is accessible.

The site got co-opted by a few blowhards that aren't socialized well enough to be on other forums.

Yeah, it devolved into severe disharmony (and that's an understatement). However at least one of the more offending members, maybe more than one, have gone on to "provide Thelemic services" on their own websites where they can continue their sort of targeted rage posting. One of those targeted me with a ridiculous comment / accusation on X. I was quite stunned. I can't imagine signing up for even an academic study of Thelema (or anything) with this person. There definitely are alternatives but in general, outside of the various witchcrafts, the reliable occult space (beyond divination) is pretty sparse.

Many users who left over the years that contributed to the site wouldn't want to be part of a foundation to provide unfounded validation and keep platforming them.

They should reconsider. Of course we don't want to platform maniacs but we need to provide reliable occult platforms for people.

 

[Kepler]

The issue is that there was a great deal of wheat amongst the chaff and now none of it is accessible.

Yeah, it devolved into severe disharmony (and that's an understatement). However at least one of the more offending members, maybe more than one, have gone on to "provide Thelemic services" on their own websites where they can continue their sort of targeted rage posting. One of those targeted me with a ridiculous comment / accusation on X. I was quite stunned. I can't imagine signing up for even an academic study of Thelema (or anything) with this person. There definitely are alternatives but in general, outside of the various witchcrafts, the reliable occult space (beyond divination) is pretty sparse.

They should reconsider. Of course we don't want to platform maniacs but we need to provide reliable occult platforms for people.

Before I closed my account I copied stuff from the site that I valued. Largely my own posts(to touch on the topic of ego). When I closed it I wanted to have all my posts deleted, which unfortunately the selected software didn't follow through. The owner was courteous and deleted a few selected posts even after I closed. That was despite luckily closing just in time to become one of the last anonymous accounts before closed accounts were numbered.

I wasn't too concerned as it was expected to end up not mattering anyway. It seemed pretty clear that The Aleister Crowley Society wasn't going to last must longer at the rate it was isolating itself into obscurity.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

Elitism is another trap. Calling oneself 'spiritual' or an occultist does NOT elevate us above the 'common herd' of so-called muggles or normies (how I hate that word!). We're not the one's who really know what's going one while everybody else is just a blind meat puppet zombified by crass consumerism and social media.

I think we don't need to be humble as much as we should prepared to be humbled by our experiences and studies. To be aghast at one's own ignorance or foolishness once in a while should be seen (and deeply felt!) as a healthy and rewarding insight, as a sign that one's making progress. The OP is right in that 'brutal honesty' is a good antidote here, provided it doesn't become yet another self-serving pose ("I'm more brutally honest than you, so shut up!").

What good is humility to a GOD??
& what’s the point of doing magick if not to be BETTER than the human HERD??
HAIL ME (Lord Maximagus)!

(Jokes jokes)

 

[Wintruz]

I think one thing that's often overlooked precisely because it's too painful to the ego is that, for the vast majority of people who engage with the more intense side of occultism, we have pretty deep trauma. This isn't so much the case for things like mysticism, astrology and so on, they have wide appeal, but I'm talking here about serious attempts at magic, the essence of which is "I won't just accept fate". I'm not demonising this instinct, sometimes fate is a

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and we're right to say, at least, "I'll play the cards dealt me as best I can". We actually have an obligation to do that.

There's a delicate, complex relationship going on here because trauma can cause a person to see through the lies told by outer society ("Work hard and you'll get on", "I love all my children equally", etc., etc.) and that can lead to re-evaluating beliefs rejected by society. At the softer end this can be the alchemical: "The world is clearly unfinished and we can perfect it with the right techniques". At the harder end there's the satanic: "If this society/parent/cosmos represents God, I'm on the other side". Although we might debate about which approaches are useful long-term, a person who is interested in magic because of trauma may well be acting perfectly rationally (perhaps even more so than those who don't re-evaluate everything). However...

Trauma doesn't diminish the ego. It wreaks havoc with it, causing under-confidence in some areas and compensatory over-confidence in others and added to this is the natural desire to not be harmed again and the hardening of the ego as a protector. Then magic is introduced into this disarray and, with it, the realisation that change is possible and we've just let little Timmy, with a gaping emotional wound, loose with rocket fuel.

Personally, I see less of this online (there are definitely egomaniacs around - often those who denounce everyone else as one - but well-intentioned confusion is much more common online) than I have among real life magicians: my jaw has genuinely dropped at times when encountering some people and rarely where you might think (I'll be pilloried for this but - who cares, it's true - the Golden Dawn system can be really effective at distorting some peoples' sense of importance).

I think the solution is not to denounce. A traumatised ego isn't going to give up its toys because someone else finds it unpleasant. Instead, I think it has to come from the recognition of how ego distorts us ontologically. One's true nature cannot piece through into the world, one cannot fulfil their deepest purpose, because this big clumsy obstruction is in the way. When that realisation occurs, and life supplies the small darts that pop the bubble, the popping can bring ecstasy as often as it brings pain.

 

[Romolo]

A competent and Powerful Practitioner doesn't have to say anything when in the room of their peers. Your presence speaks for itself. Humbleness and dedication make for a competent practitioner.

Humbleness, balance, reticence etc. seems to me something many seekers aspire or at least find praiseworthy. From Gurdjieff‘s advice to his daughter: ”Do not take up too much space. Do not make unnecessary noises or gestures. Do not sell yourself. Speak only what is necessary...” all the way back to Castiglione’s Book of the Courtier (1528), who wrote of sprezzatura, “nonchalance”, giving an air of ease, walking and standing in a cool fashion, but also to the Aztecs moral philosophy: “be careful not to eat too fast or you deserve to choke”. Longer quote referring to Aztecs: “pure life is considered as a precious turquoise; as a round, reed-like, well-formed, precious green stone. There is no blotch, no blemish. Those perfect in their hearts, in their manner of life, those of pure life—like these are the precious green stone, the precious turquoise, which are glistening, shining before the lord of the near, of the night”. (Bernardino de Saharan, 16th century, Florentine Codex book 6, chapter 22– book uploaded here on the forum) Maybe also relevant here is Hildegard von Bingen’s medieval treatise on balancing the extremes.

I thought a lot about this humbleness, and how it is intertwined with the occult and the Great Work. I believe we can be drawn to it, because it is precisely what we lack. Then we run the risk that it becomes just another act or game, or worse, that it turns us into a simulacrum of what “an esteemed mage” would do in a certain situation. Maybe in some situations the thing a magician/practitioner ought to do is to punch their fist through a wall or cackle like a hyena. No serious magic can ever succeed without that sparkle of wildness. And then what, to remain “perfectly calm” towards the outside world, but do your thing when the curtains are closed? There should be space for imbalance too, for madness, for “letting the weirdness in” (Kate Bush).

 

[FireBorn]

You know, after reading this thread and all the super smart replies (fucking hell, you bastards are smart!), I’m only left with like two thoughts.

First, I realize not everyone’s on the same path, but the Left Hand Path actually has an app for this. It's called The Abyss. Im not a LHPer myself, I just stole the Abyss for my trip across it. Relax, I gave it back to them, it wasn't being used so much (JOKE!).

You cross it, and all the illusions you thought were you get stripped away. You come out naked and face yourself. And then you integrate which, takes the rest of your life.

It’s fucking astounding how many self-proclaimed LHPers as well as others pretend they went through the Abyss. Wanna know how to instantly spot the ones full of shit? They go on and on about “killing the ego bro” (which is impossible, the ego isn’t the villain), or they act like it was some Lovecraftian horror show. It’s not horrific. The real terror is the silence after. Seeing yourself with nothing left to hide behind. Seeing how fake you were, even to yourself. So what’s left after all that? You are.

Is ego bad? Nope. Can you have power and still not be egocentric? Of course.

Is being egocentric even inherently bad? I don’t mean projecting your jealousy onto someone who’s more whatever than you, I mean honestly, isn't that why you're doing magick? For you? That is thinking of self.

We can intellectualize this till the cows eat the cabbage, but for me? I give my ego a voice. I give my anima a voice. I listen to both before I act. I just don’t let my ego drive the car. But sometimes my ego isn't wrong. Imagine that! (Makes me wonder if its the Abrahamic scaffolding that made the ego the devil we pretend it is today... Something for the smart ones to chew on, above my paygrade.)

How do other paths reconcile their ego and traumas? RHP, Witchcraft, Animist, Norse, Chaotes, etc. How do you deal with it? What mechanism is used to integrate? If none, maybe this is in part why some people struggle so much with magick as a whole. Okay, I lied, more than a couple of thoughts.

As for the occult in general? Egocentrism is the least of its problems.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

You know, after reading this thread and all the super smart replies (fucking hell, you bastards are smart!), I’m only left with like two thoughts.

First, I realize not everyone’s on the same path, but the Left Hand Path actually has an app for this. It's called The Abyss. Im not a LHPer myself, I just stole the Abyss for my trip across it. Relax, I gave it back to them, it wasn't being used so much (JOKE!).

You cross it, and all the illusions you thought were you get stripped away. You come out naked and face yourself. And then you integrate which, takes the rest of your life.

It’s fucking astounding how many self-proclaimed LHPers as well as others pretend they went through the Abyss. Wanna know how to instantly spot the ones full of shit? They go on and on about “killing the ego bro” (which is impossible, the ego isn’t the villain), or they act like it was some Lovecraftian horror show. It’s not horrific. The real terror is the silence after. Seeing yourself with nothing left to hide behind. Seeing how fake you were, even to yourself. So what’s left after all that? You are.

Is ego bad? Nope. Can you have power and still not be egocentric? Of course.

Is being egocentric even inherently bad? I don’t mean projecting your jealousy onto someone who’s more whatever than you, I mean honestly, isn't that why you're doing magick? For you? That is thinking of self.

We can intellectualize this till the cows eat the cabbage, but for me? I give my ego a voice. I give my anima a voice. I listen to both before I act. I just don’t let my ego drive the car. But sometimes my ego isn't wrong. Imagine that! (Makes me wonder if its the Abrahamic scaffolding that made the ego the devil we pretend it is today... Something for the smart ones to chew on, above my paygrade.)

How do other paths reconcile their ego and traumas? RHP, Witchcraft, Animist, Norse, Chaotes, etc. How do you deal with it? What mechanism is used to integrate? If none, maybe this is in part why some people struggle so much with magick as a whole. Okay, I lied, more than a couple of thoughts.

As for the occult in general? Egocentrism is the least of its problems.

Not my dumb ass searching the App Store for an actual app called “The Abyss” LMFAO

I agree the ego is not the enemy. It’s giving that ego absolute power over your thoughts emotions and actions. Then it naturally becomes a tyrant. Like anything in life its about balance and reconciliation of seeming pairs of opposites. That’s pretty much our whole Work really, and if a magician isnt paying any attention to it…well its no wonder there are so many IMBALANCED occultists out there.

I have a theory that this is why there are countless hordes of “LHPers & RHPers” but VERY FEW “Middle pathers/Grey Mages”
You rarely hear anyone talking about the “middle way”. Just like in politics they dont care which side youre on, as long as you pick a side and are extremely imbalanced and biased to that side. They dont want balanced centered people because they tend to think very clearly and have real power to make change (because they make SENSE!)

 

[IllusiveOwl]

How do other paths reconcile their ego and traumas? RHP, Witchcraft, Animist, Norse, Chaotes, etc. How do you deal with it? What mechanism is used to integrate?

Hey, Chaote here

We work with belief, and believe it or not, the pain of trauma is centered around belief.

I'm tired of talking abstractly, so I'll use a simple metaphor. See the world as a bunch of bland, flavorless, neutral tofu. You bite into it, it tastes like nothing, but somehow it nourishes you, this is the world before creativity. Most people living in this world would just go and kill themselves, and I wouldn't blame them, because in this metaphor beauty, meaning, God, everything is absent, just the mushy trees and tofu-cows of the world. We are special, us as a species are able to create within our heads all kinds of incredible, beautiful, intricate flavors and project this flavor onto the tofu. It makes life a roving adventure of different unique experiences and combinations of flavor. A natural system of flavors form based on a logical construction, and therefore... some BAD flavors come up just out of mathematical happenstance, let's say you're Tony Soprano's therapist walking to her car, and some man does things to you in very bad taste. And they can get very, very rancid. The taste of the flavors can get so bad, people sometimes just go and kill themselves to taste them no longer, which is just as bad as having no flavors at all, so what do we do?

You can't just make trauma happy, because that goes against logic, it "breaks reality". You can't make it a little deal either, because that goes against the order of the world your brain runs on. Psychology focuses on integrating the trauma into the rest of an individual's story, to disempower it and leave it as unimportant as other memories of that time. I think psychology is pretty in concept, impotent in practice.

If you want to work with belief, you have to know what it's like to not hold any, to roam this natural, flavorless world of tofu. There, a rape is just as bland as a birthday party, and equally as bland as a rape at a birthday party (Sorry Johnny), it's all just vibration, patterns, energy exchange, tofu. It's from that point that agency comes into the picture, and rather than running an unconscious and automatic system, you're the one at the controls (an important point here is that this you is NOT the ego, that was left behind with the flavors). I'm not saying you numb yourself to the trauma, but you just turn the intensity down and change the flavor to something that isn't fucking crippling you any longer.

The ego is a whole other tangle of wire, It's mostly just a misunderstanding and self-perpetuating delusion. To use the metaphor above, it is the logical-system that paints tofu automatically according to it's code. We like to think it has a personality, because our personality is it's unique expression but personality is an abstraction, it's a ruse.

 

[FireBorn]

Hey, Chaote here

We work with belief, and believe it or not, the pain of trauma is centered around belief.

I'm tired of talking abstractly, so I'll use a simple metaphor. See the world as a bunch of bland, flavorless, neutral tofu. You bite into it, it tastes like nothing, but somehow it nourishes you, this is the world before creativity. Most people living in this world would just go and kill themselves, and I wouldn't blame them, because in this metaphor beauty, meaning, God, everything is absent, just the mushy trees and tofu-cows of the world. We are special, us as a species are able to create within our heads all kinds of incredible, beautiful, intricate flavors and project this flavor onto the tofu. It makes life a roving adventure of different unique experiences and combinations of flavor. A natural system of flavors form based on a logical construction, and therefore... some BAD flavors come up just out of mathematical happenstance, let's say you're Tony Soprano's therapist walking to her car, and some man does things to you in very bad taste. And they can get very, very rancid. The taste of the flavors can get so bad, people sometimes just go and kill themselves to taste them no longer, which is just as bad as having no flavors at all, so what do we do?

You can't just make trauma happy, because that goes against logic, it "breaks reality". You can't make it a little deal either, because that goes against the order of the world your brain runs on. Psychology focuses on integrating the trauma into the rest of an individual's story, to disempower it and leave it as unimportant as other memories of that time. I think psychology is pretty in concept, impotent in practice.

If you want to work with belief, you have to know what it's like to not hold any, to roam this natural, flavorless world of tofu. There, a rape is just as bland as a birthday party, and equally as bland as a rape at a birthday party (Sorry Johnny), it's all just vibration, patterns, energy exchange, tofu. It's from that point that agency comes into the picture, and rather than running an unconscious and automatic system, you're the one at the controls (an important point here is that this you is NOT the ego, that was left behind with the flavors). I'm not saying you numb yourself to the trauma, but you just turn the intensity down and change the flavor to something that isn't fucking crippling you any longer.

The ego is a whole other tangle of wire, It's mostly just a misunderstanding and self-perpetuating delusion. To use the metaphor above, it is the logical-system that paints tofu automatically according to it's code. We like to think it has a personality, because our personality is it's unique expression but personality is an abstraction, it's a ruse.

So belief then. Right? Please no more tofu!

 

[IllusiveOwl]

So belief then. Right? Please no more tofu!

I am sorry, but belief is gobblygook, there is only tofu All you can do is cope.

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2025

From what I gather, "entering the Tofu Land" is the same experience as "Crossing the Abyss", if I have my Crowley understanding right. So you should be on a similar page.

 

[BBBB]

The tofu metaphor is so refreshing

 

[Sabbatius]

Huh.
So I missed a pissing contest that turned into an ego discussion.
I'm out of popcorn...
and $0.02

*orders sushi

 

[MorganBlack]

Chao-Animist Necromancer here. (With a deeply personal sacramental theosis practice emplying both Greco-Egyptian pagan and Folk Catholic mythic frameworks.)

Love the Tofu metaphor, IllusiveOwl! Way way more, uh, flavorful than the usual nomenclature... The Void / The Teheru / Da'ath.

And... been there. Well, was dragged there. But I also don't think it's helpful to talk about it, as that only grows the Magician's Ego (as the personal demiurgic creator of Maya, or whatever the phenomenon is we are trying to map here.). Also not trying to sell any "magic" books. You have my full repect if you try strangle with your shoelaces one dark night if I ever try to.

I think the Magician's Ego (for lack of a better term ), on one end, is mostly an artifact of Anglophone materialist monocuture, that says you're stupid and delisional - and on the other end - a modern magic methodology derived from New Thought that insists that unless you TOTALLY BELIEVE (!!) and completely mind-fuck yourself or the "magic" will not work for you. (This can work, btw, so no slam. Just needs some updating. )

So newcomers are fucked coming and going...

On one side you get an earful of the dominant culture telling you "magical thinking, blah blah" is a delusion, that you're a gullible simpleton or mentally ill for entertaining it at all. So you're already defensive, already having to justify your practice's validity.

On the other side: a New Thought derived magical methodology telling you that any doubt, any rational reservation, any failure to achieve total conviction will sabotage your work. So you can't even maintain a healthy skepticism or hold uncertainty lightly - you have to perform in absolute belief to yourself . Many people then try to piggyback clinging to lodge magic, neopagan, or church elders... or forum gabbers.

So the Magican's Ego gets massively overinvested in defending a position of certainty it can't actually inhabit honestly. You become brittle, aggressive, unable to have nuanced conversations about what's actually happening in your practice. The new magican can't say "For now, I don't know if this works, but I'm doing it anyway" becasue they have not made it 'real' for themselves.

My 'solve' for this clusterfuck, when I a newbie many years ago, was traditional sorcery, a practice that gives you stuff-happens-in-consensus-reality. This was the 1990's - you'd have access to enough traditional grimoires, Vodou, brujeria and folk practices that never got the New Thought / Theosphical psychological overlay.

I agree modern magic "transvocation" can work, but the practice is still in your imagination, which the monocultre says is not "real" and so you have to quadruple the amount of work just to reach the baseline the other 80% or the planet and most of humanity has acepted as real for the vast majority of human time.

From the 10,00 sephiroth view it's ALL imagination. Everything. There is no spoon. Where exactly do you think you are? Where exactly is that wand you're holding?

A little Tantric Buddhism perpective might help here:

There was a story about a very materialist-rationalist Vajrayana practitioner who asked his lama if Green Tara is "actually real" or if she’s just "an archetype" a convienent tool they use for consciousness exploration.

The lama thought about it for a moment and finally replied, “The only difference between yourself and green Tara is that green Tara knows she isn’t real”.

 

[AntoniusBlock]

Firstly, I didn't disrespect you, and you're not going to disrespect me. I am willing to have a conversation with you, but you will not talk to me in any way you want to. So take a minute, regulate yourself, and come back.

Now that that's done, I mentioned the opportunities that I've had to meet people from traditions because all of those people are in my experience competent and effective practitioners, and all of them were kind, gentle people who didn't take themselves so seriously. I was not in any way listing out a resume., I didn't drop names, I didn't say that I or anyone else was better than anyone else,Except for those who take themselves too seriously and think themselves superior. I'm calling out egos I'm seeing it here, like I have seen on Tumblr and in other occult spaces online and in person. I'm not talking about people new to the arte, I am talking about practitioners with years under their belt who think that they are better than somebody else. my point was that people who think that their tradition is somehow Superior to another are often insecure and incompetent, and they are.

I can empathize with you getting activated and reactionary. It's normal to get big feelings and feel confronted. But nothing I said is untrue, And nothing you said takes away from my point. if you think yourself better than other people you are an incompetent magician. if one can recognize that they probably don't know as much as they think they do, and that it's more about how much effort you put into the systems that you work within, then you actually start to get somewhere.

There are plenty of hobbyists who are incredible at Magic, there are plenty of lay people who don't want to be professional practitioners. nurses, psychologists, lawyers, Laborers, even disabled people. It almost reads as if you were starting to feel as if I was trying to say that differently abled or disabled people couldn't be competent magicians but that's not at all what I was saying. Is that what You mean by “thrash against their own delusion”

Because I am mentally ill and neurodiverse. I've been in treatment for 7 years so if that's what you were getting at. that's not at all what I was saying, again I was talking about snobbish people who think that they are better. That's all. You added things that weren't there. And you read into things because it's what you expected. And this is why we have to have conversations, because oftentimes when we're having big feelings, we're not thinking right, and we end up saying things that aren't true or misinterpreting what somebody else has said.

Moving forward, I expect respect, which is how I would treat anyone else. And if you don't feel that you can be respectful, then you can ignore me or block me.

This reads like something a condescending kindergarten teacher would write out. "If you have big feelings, you should take a breather and raise your hand when you're ready to have a conversation about what it means to be humble; maybe then, I'll pass you the talking stick."

Also, no one said that the "differently abled" couldn't practice magick and I frankly have no idea what being mentally ill and "neurodiverse" have to do with "egocentrism and magic".

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt with your first post in case you had genuinely good intentions but it honestly seems like you just want brownie points for being a special snowflake. Maybe you should ask yourself why you seek validation from strangers on the internet, but that honestly doesn't seem very healthy. With all due respect, if you want to be on tumblr, go post on tumblr; I don't come here to watch others participate in the oppression olympics.

On your forum, there are a few people who are allowed to do anything. You turn a blind eye to their behavior, off-topic posts, and mockery. Okay. I have nothing more to do here. I’ll just wish you all the best and leave this place.))

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:46 AM

It's important that we do this work with integrity, humbleness, and honesty.

Who's "we"? The "magical community"? What binds a leftist tiktok witch to a volkisch heathen or a satanist to a tantric monk? The world of magic practitioners is quite vast and diverse in character, with many different temperaments and moral codes; many of these people practice magic for wildly different reasons.