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I've made my points about gratitude. It wasn't a conversation, it was me pointing a finger for people to explore themselves. It's up to the person reading to investigate gratitude deeply, contrasting it with power and sovereignty of Self. Again, it's no accident that religions have preached gratitude forever. It's part of a -sometimes very subtle- system of psychic enslavement.
I think gratitude is important. But maybe in a slightly different way. For me, I am very greatful to have a functional mind, a healthy body, and the guidance of the spirit world. I appreciate this and I am very greatful for the good in my life, and even if things are bad at times this gratitude always remains. As for the gratitude for magic happening, I think that if it feels right for you to be thanking the universe or whichever deity you want to be grateful to, then express it, feel it. I have in the past. These days its sort of an unspoken thing that I am eternally appreciative to be a part of.
Crowley told you to, of course (as if heroin didnt subjugate him) . And the idea of an oath in this regard is like a pantomime of real sovereignty.
I've made my points about gratitude. It wasn't a conversation, it was me pointing a finger for people to explore themselves. It's up to the person reading to investigate gratitude deeply, contrasting it with power and sovereignty of Self. Again, it's no accident that religions have preached gratitude forever. It's part of a -sometimes very subtle- system of psychic enslavement.
And that system goes by the names I already explained ... so as not to conflate the two . It can be a system of 'psychic enslavement ' and that is when it changes name and term to subservience, control, manipulation and the other phrases and names which actually decscribe that .
Your problem and the issue people here are having with you , is your projection of these negative terms into gratitude, insisting it must be like this , suggesting anyone with gratitude has slipped into these negative traits and covered with a frosting of your own disdain .
"The core of the hidden real self is pure power", again, what does this mean? The real me is a fuckin' battery? "Power" is a fucking adjective, "pure power" doesn't mean anything.
Hold on, now. What BE is saying there make sense Qabalistically. We are all manifestations of the Limitless Light - is that not the ultimate source of power? We only perceive things in separated, dualistic terms because of the Sephirothic filtering of our states of consciousness. But ultimately, this is only a matter of perception, and working the ToL can affect that to some degree.
Also, I'm going to point out (gently) that power is a noun, a verb, and an adjective.
It can be a system of 'psychic enslavement ' and that is when it changes name and term to subservience, control, manipulation and the other phrases and names which actually decscribe that .
It is derived experentially, not from any mystical ideology. I mentioned the Inner I/awakened awareness for a reason. Once one has exhausted placing awareness into every possible level of experience what is still left is the unquantifiable hidden aspects of the self, which can be described as pure power. Every intermediary experience is in the way of experiencing the latter. That's partly why devotional practices, gratitude, and much else do not tap it.
However you're not off-base as humans have a potential connection to 'infinity'.
I'm aware of this from many of your previous posts. However, let's ask ourselves where this 'mystical ideology' came from. It came from others who've achieved the experience of union using Qabalistic (and Kaballistic) methods, not from eggheads sitting in ivory towers proclaiming "I think it should bethus!"
Agreed, but with the layered perceptions of phenomenological existence that we have, the intermediate veils seem to be there to be worked through. They also open doors to more and more magic along the way.
In the short term, I don't agree with this. If gratitude enriches someone's emotional life, then it is nurturing their unconscious mind. It's somehow through the unconscious mind that we reach higher/deeper magical states of consciousness, so nurturing one's unconscious mind is a fine idea.
However, I agree with your earlier statement about breaking habits. That comes down to deconstructing oneself in order to experience broader realities. So, in the long term, that includes letting go of the gratitude habit, with the caveat that gratitude toward spirits who have been beneficial should, in my mind, always be practiced. Otherwise, you are putting yourself in the position of master in a master/slave relationship. I know you don't work with spirits, so this comment wasn't aimed directly at you, but at others.
When I first started practicing magic, I was heavily influenced by the YT magician Frater Xavier. He was heavily pro-gratitude, and made a video about it called "How to Get the Divine on Your Side". So, gratitude seemed like a fine idea at the time. Since then, I've moved away from it, except for honoring spirits when they've come through for me.
So, in the long term, that includes letting go of the gratitude habit, with the caveat that gratitude toward spirits who have been beneficial should, in my mind, always be practiced.
I'm aware of this from many of your previous posts. However, let's ask ourselves where this 'mystical ideology' came from. It came from others who've achieved the experience of union using Qabalistic (and Kaballistic) methods, not from eggheads sitting in ivory towers proclaiming "I think it should bethus!"
I'm not really interested in unitary experiences. To me that's mere mysticism. I also think it's a problem where people must refer their experiences and transformations to ready-made occult ideologies. When I really went off the map is when I had the most profound transformations.
In the short term, I don't agree with this. If gratitude enriches someone's emotional life, then it is nurturing their unconscious mind. It's somehow through the unconscious mind that we reach higher/deeper magical states of consciousness, so nurturing one's unconscious mind is a fine idea.
This is a complicated issue which is very challenging to verbalize and communicate about. There's a difference between what can be thought of as the unconscious, which is at least in part a product of biological evolution, and the hidden aspects of the self (of which nothing can really be said, it must be experienced) . It's all the more confused because the unconscious can give magical effects such as in 'simple' visualizations. But what the unconscious cant do is bring a person to the highest magical development, which is what an integration with the hidden aspects of the self can accomplish. So one can achieve a satisfying inner life and have peak experiences and whatnot and still not fundamentally transform in the ways that hidden part can facilitate.
However, I agree with your earlier statement about breaking habits. That comes down to deconstructing oneself in order to experience broader realities. So, in the long term, that includes letting go of the gratitude habit, with the caveat that gratitude toward spirits who have been beneficial should, in my mind, always be practiced. Otherwise, you are putting yourself in the position of master in a master/slave relationship. I know you don't work with spirits, so this comment wasn't aimed directly at you, but at others.
I think it's hugely important. And I don't think it's just about saying 'thanks' afterward. If you call on something/someone to help you, and they deliver for you.. you've established a relationship. Why squander that by being ungrateful? Being truly grateful when I've seen positive change in my life, when I've asked for it, has only led me to more help from those same beings. How you are grateful is up to you, but I get my energy flowing with the MPR and then say my thanks (in more specific terms) to whoever has helped me.
It really depends on the individual and the peculiarities of their 'subconscious' and their total energy complex.
Many people with great wealth, social success, unusual talents, spiritual gifts etc, just take these things as baseline parts of their reality. They have large expectations (at least in the particular areas outlined) and gratitude doesn't figure into their psychic equation.
On the other hand, for some people it can be an aspect that seemingly can help shift them out of their stagnation in their manifestations.
However, in a deeper consideration, gratitude implies a kind of submissiveness that is detrimental to the kind of inner empowerment that is needed for higher esoteric achievements and absolute sovereignity.
This is one of my observations but then I wonder if it is because I don’t have genuine insight into the minds of those for whom gratitude does not figure into their psychic equation. Whereas it is possible that if we ask them, they may say “ yes, I show gratitude“ . But do we really know for sure?
I honestly have been stating to think that gratitude may play a more active role than simply encouraging a positive attitude. Sometimes I can physically feel this energy radiating outward from me while i express my gratitude to spirits, almost as though the emotion itself produces energy that can be offered or transmitted. That makes me wonder whether gratitude creates a genuine energetic exchange, where spirits can receive, use, or respond to what we send out for themselves.
In that sense, gratitude would not just be a moral gesture or polite thankyou after the work. It could be part of the offering itself, helping to nourish the relationship and return something for what has been received. I cannot prove that this is literally what happens, but it fits my experience better than seeing gratitude as purely psychological.
I think it plays a big part, just from my own personal experience.
When I've let go of the outcome and feel comfortable with where I'm "at" in life, I feel that there's been a shift that has allowed the magick to flow more easily. Like I say, this is just my own inner sense.
I honestly have been stating to think that gratitude may play a more active role than simply encouraging a positive attitude. Sometimes I can physically feel this energy radiating outward from me while i express my gratitude to spirits, almost as though the emotion itself produces energy that can be offered or transmitted. That makes me wonder whether gratitude creates a genuine energetic exchange, where spirits can receive, use, or respond to what we send out for themselves.
In that sense, gratitude would not just be a moral gesture or polite thankyou after the work. It could be part of the offering itself, helping to nourish the relationship and return something for what has been received. I cannot prove that this is literally what happens, but it fits my experience better than seeing gratitude as purely psychological.
In terms of higher development, gratitude is a submissive stance, and such development of a higher order is the antipode of any submission of any sort. Try energetically investigating gratitude and exploring the depths of it rather than just passively accepting what others say about it.
If you explored the true depths of gratitude you’d see how deep it really goes to the reverence of all things including yourself. It’s all interconnected, cruelty is born from weakness and fear is born from the unknown. Gratitude is born of reverence, submission is born from not seeing that same reverence in others as you do yourself. It’s ok to have respect, that is not submitting, that is acknowledgement that there is always more to learn and there are those who are willing to help you.
You are using what I said grossly out of context, “Reverence” is not out of fear the same way you are in fear of something evil. It’s like the king who said idc if the people fear me or love me as long as they respect me, you were talking about higher realms not lower realms, both have power and gratitude that there is something so powerful that can strike a feeling of awe inside you should make a person curious onto how to achieve such radiance, the middle ground is the gratitude. Not boot licking the king but also not showing disrespect,
Gratitude for the things in life that matter to you is a great start and starting to recognize things outside yourself and holding space for the small moments of wonder and beauty in life is a path towards growth to the higher realms, if you are narcissistic then ofc you will not feel one way or another towards things you expect should happen for you but life doesn’t owe you anything and it can be a sh- show at times, having gratitude for the little things can go a long way even if it’s a hard lesson learned but it takes effort and actively looking for the things to be grateful for,‘it’s much easier to dismiss them.You mentioned higher realms, not lower realms, and the OP was asking about Gratitude,
Both can contain power but where that energy is drawing from makes the difference internally, just because you can access alternate states of mind and see the power in in it, like some psychopath that gets rich may experience something akin to joy externally but internally otndoesnt mean they reached a “higher realm”, that by definition is a materialist that is in a lower realm train of thought,
Gratitude is a great way to show that we do not to the material but rather acknowledge the spirit within,
