[Help] Antipsychotic reaction?

[speculumphilosophi]

This deserves a thread of it's own but not sure where to post it. I add it here because Brian Wilson suffered from serious depression in the 1970s, and heard audible voices through his later life. Brian has recently passed away, which come as a shock to me as I personally view him as a genius musician and terrific person.
It seems to me Brian did have a schizophrenia though he himself always blamed his mental health on LSD and recreational drugs. However, his overall symptoms and even family environment I always related to. I also had major depressive episodes in the 1980s, though these days I have it all mostly under control.
I can't believe Brian has left us. His brainchild Pet Sounds was a totally new phenomenon in pop music that greatly inspired the Beatles Sgt Pepper album in 1967.
There's a story that once Paul McCartney paid Brian a visit at his home but couldn't get him to come out of his bedroom.
Personally I very much doubt LSD caused these ongoing mental health issues but, by the same token, it was not a good combination.
RIP Brian Wilson.

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[Bradley Sneddon]

I am trying to find info if antipsychotics and kratom are a bad mix?
Some sort of 'depot' injection.
I really don't think I need psych meds anymore but am cautious.
I have a Shaman willing to take a look at me but have to stop all psych meds first.
So keen to sensibly stop them soon as.

I'm a psychiatric nurse and have been working in the field since 1986.

Psychiatrists can be wrong whether they're psychiatric registrars or consultant psychiatrists. They can be wrong about a diagnosis and they can be wrong about shamanism.

Thing is, sometimes shamans can be wrong and psychiatrists can be right.

I can't presume to diagnose you or predict anything about how things will go if you cease the psych' meds. If you actually do, I hope things go brilliantly for you but I'll just say that in forty years of psych' nursing, I've seen time and time again - clients who are doing really well on their psych' meds - so well they don't think they need psych' meds anymore so they stop taking them. And within a couple of months, they decompensate and end up in a state of psychosis again because - quite often - one of the significant factors in their feeling of wellness was that psych' meds were at therapeutic levels and the resulting mental stability gave them opportunities to engage in every other domain of their life whether social, religious/spiritual, hobbies, cultural activities or academic pursuits.

The best psychiatrists stay within their scope of practice or "field of expertise".

They don't presume that expertise in psychiatry automatically confers expertise in theology, mysticism or magical praxis.

I imagine that the best shamans also stay within their field of expertise.

It could well be that your shaman is aware of potential clashes between kratom and the current medication you're taking and he/she wants you off the psych' meds precisely to avoid dangerous interactions but he/she is possibly unaware of the potential for decompensation and relapse into psychosis if you actually go off your psych' meds.

There is also the question of how long you need to be off your depot before taking kratom and avoiding potential interactions. Zuclopenthixol, aripiprazole, fluphenazine, paliperidone and others have very different pharmacokinetics, and depot medication can remain in the body for a considerable time after the last injection.

So if you're determined to go off the medication before taking kratom, I wouldn't assume that an arbitrary period such as a few weeks after your last depot makes the combination safe. That's something I'd want checked for the particular depot you're receiving.

There are published case reports of psychotic symptoms and mania arising in association with the ingestion of kratom itself.

Your prescribing doctor might actually be worth talking to on this entire question - at least as far as the kratom aspect of shamanism-with-kratom goes.

 

[ZanySpirtist]

I can't presume to diagnose you or predict anything about how things will go if you cease the psych' meds. If you actually do, I hope things go brilliantly for you but I'll just say that in forty years of psych' nursing, I've seen time and time again - clients who are doing really well on their psych' meds - so well they don't think they need psych' meds anymore so they stop taking them. And within a couple of months, they decompensate and end up in a state of psychosis again because - quite often - one of the significant factors in their feeling of wellness was that psych' meds were at therapeutic levels and the resulting mental stability gave them opportunities to engage in every other domain of their life whether social, religious/spiritual, hobbies, cultural activities or academic pursuits.

Been there, done that.

But weaving off antypschotic meds isn't that big a hassle - it just has to be done under the supervision of a psychiatric professional, if warranted. Modern, young psychiatrists even prefer fewer meds to more meds, and in lower dosages, than psychiatrists of old.

 

[Faria]

But weaving off antypschotic meds isn't that big a hassle - it just has to be done under the supervision of a psychiatric professional

I recommend against this supervision as they will almost always put you on some other drug. As with so much else in the medical industry, it becomes an intelligence test where you just have to learn to shut them out. Typical weaning periods are anywhere from 2-5 years, sometimes longer. Toward the end I've seen people count out the little grains one by one.

There used to be some decent online resources for people getting off their meds, but Big Pharma has diligently used every dirty trick they could to remove those sites from existence. The remaining ones tend to be a lot more pro-pharma or lacking resources. So most people are on their own, with nothing more than a precision scale and some empty gel caps.

 

[ZanySpirtist]

I recommend against this supervision as they will almost always put you on some other drug. As with so much else in the medical industry, it becomes an intelligence test where you just have to learn to shut them out. Typical weaning periods are anywhere from 2-5 years, sometimes longer. Toward the end I've seen people count out the little grains one by one.

There used to be some decent online resources for people getting off their meds, but Big Pharma has diligently used every dirty trick they could to remove those sites from existence. The remaining ones tend to be a lot more pro-pharma or lacking resources. So most people are on their own, with nothing more than a precision scale and some empty gel caps.

Well, this could depend on the physician in question and the country you're in. F. in. my previous psychiatrist was actively weaning me off my meds to gradually reduce to zero (according to newest studies, using antipsychotics over several years has the opposite effect of the one desired, lewlz), but I went through an episode due to mobbing stress and we're back to basics (but fortunately I have a very low dosage and very little to no side-effects of this particular drug [aripiprazole, Abilify]). So your mileage may vary, of course.

EDIT

BTW. I highly recommend the textbook "Psychotherapy for psychosis" by Michael Garrett, MD. It has a great "State of Affairs" chapter in the beginning. Recommend this book to your psychiatrist and maybe they'll get with the data.

 

[shallowgravez]

I am trying to find info if antipsychotics and kratom are a bad mix?
Some sort of 'depot' injection.
I really don't think I need psych meds anymore but am cautious.
I have a Shaman willing to take a look at me but have to stop all psych meds first.
So keen to sensibly stop them soon as.

At the end of the day, it’s up to you whether you want to stay on them, but please talk your doctor before you do so. Withdrawal symptoms can be very unpleasant and make things worse.

 

[Dyn Hysbys]

mods is this better placed in the psychology section of the Academy?