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Authentic Occult Authors and Practitioners, or Just Edgelord Businessmen?

AxelAchiLles

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Hey guys, I wanted to ask what you think about people in the occult community who have a very large following and reach in platforms such as Youtube, Patreon etc. We all know who I’m referring to, so I’m not going to mention any specific names. This is meant as a general question.

That being said, if anyone wants to discuss a specific occultist or occult YouTuber, feel free to do so.

The only reason I’m deliberately not focusing on a particular person is that I don’t want to trigger any fanboys here and turn this into another pointless rant or argument.
 

solxyz

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Well, no, I don't know who you're talking about, and it seems rather pointless to try to have this conversation in the abstract, since the fact that someone has a large following doesn't imply much one way or the other about whether they are 'authentic.' Some people are legit and some are not. One has to evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

And if you want to have an actual conversation about some individual, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to hear the perspective of those who think that person is bringing real value. Or are you trying to load this conversation to arrive at your pre-determined conclusion?
 

Digiquo

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While 'popularity' doesn't equal 'authenticity', you can determine if someone like that is being authentic or not pretty quick. If they are busy peddling their own books and services, saying things like "summon this demon for wealth, quick and easy method for beginners!", and there is very heavy editing designed to keep the attention of the younger generations who's brains are fried from overstimulation by phones and iPads, then you are probably dealing with a crook. That isn't to say the crook doesn't actually know magic, but he's not interested in actually teaching you magic, he just wants your money and engagement.
Authentic practicioners or academics are going to spend a lot less time (preferably none at all) attempting to sell you something, will lay proper foundations and understandings of systems instead of peddling "find love/wealth/success instantly!" spells, and they won't heavily lean on editing tricks to maintain your attention, letting the information speak for itself. The best of them actually cite their sources so you can do your own independent research as well to verify their claims.
 

solxyz

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"Authentic practitioners" and academics are two very different beasts. Not that one can't be both, but on the whole their contexts and aims are very different, and expecting a similar pattern of communication from them is a big mistake. The fact that someone is making their material engaging is not a sign that someone is not an authentic practitioner or that what they are offering is not engaging. It is a sign that they want you to be engaged (and know that you don't have to be engaged for your job), and have taken steps to accomplish their will.
 
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While 'popularity' doesn't equal 'authenticity', you can determine if someone like that is being authentic or not pretty quick. If they are busy peddling their own books and services, saying things like "summon this demon for wealth, quick and easy method for beginners!", and there is very heavy editing designed to keep the attention of the younger generations who's brains are fried from overstimulation by phones and iPads, then you are probably dealing with a crook. That isn't to say the crook doesn't actually know magic, but he's not interested in actually teaching you magic, he just wants your money and engagement.
Authentic practicioners or academics are going to spend a lot less time (preferably none at all) attempting to sell you something, will lay proper foundations and understandings of systems instead of peddling "find love/wealth/success instantly!" spells, and they won't heavily lean on editing tricks to maintain your attention, letting the information speak for itself. The best of them actually cite their sources so you can do your own independent research as well to verify their claims.
I agree with this
 

Dyn Hysbys

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To what end are you asking for opinions? And about whom?

This is both incredibly vague and seemingly a deliberate attempt to start a 'rant or argument'.
 

Jadziya

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I don’t know who you are referring to, but if someone is spending many hours a day on social media and making short videos (filters, lighting, props including crowded altars, expensive makeup, etc), then that is less hours a day they are spending on their actual practice.
 

Swampdweller900

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While 'popularity' doesn't equal 'authenticity', you can determine if someone like that is being authentic or not pretty quick. If they are busy peddling their own books and services, saying things like "summon this demon for wealth, quick and easy method for beginners!", and there is very heavy editing designed to keep the attention of the younger generations who's brains are fried from overstimulation by phones and iPads, then you are probably dealing with a crook. That isn't to say the crook doesn't actually know magic, but he's not interested in actually teaching you magic, he just wants your money and engagement.
Authentic practicioners or academics are going to spend a lot less time (preferably none at all) attempting to sell you something, will lay proper foundations and understandings of systems instead of peddling "find love/wealth/success instantly!" spells, and they won't heavily lean on editing tricks to maintain your attention, letting the information speak for itself. The best of them actually cite their sources so you can do your own independent research as well to verify their claims.
This is 100% the truth of the matter.

There's always a book or a class. Yes, occult practitioners should teach others. But that teaching shouldn't be a certificate of completion mill for newbies that dabble a bit and then drop it in order to move on to the next fad/trend/hobby. Practitioners should only teach those who have long-term intent to learn and stick with it. An apprentice is a junior partner, not a meal ticket.

The balance of popularity vs. authenticity is global in reach. When I lived in West Africa, there were just as many televangelists as there were pretend fetish priests on both certain TV stations, and then all over facebook. Neither had any authenticity at all, but damned if they weren't raking in the dough. The televangelists will occasionally get busted for some sort of fraud if they don't pay off the right people, and then there were a number of cases of self-described fetish priests and priestesses involved on the fringes of this or that murder case that it became enough of a problem that one country tried to ban fetish priests from TV and FB over it.
 

solxyz

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I don’t know who you are referring to, but if someone is spending many hours a day on social media and making short videos (filters, lighting, props including crowded altars, expensive makeup, etc), then that is less hours a day they are spending on their actual practice.

Do you go to a job? Spend time with friends or hanging out on the internet? Have other interests and hobbies? That's less hours a day you're spending on your practice. Also totally normal and healthy.
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I want to be clear: of course there are a lot of fakers out there, or at least people who don't bring as much value as they think they do, but we should be assessing and judging on that basis, not coming up with BS reasons to write off whole fields of activity and modes of engagement.
 
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jgusta

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I'm new here, but I find the idea of authenticity to be confusing. Do we mean proper handling of falsifiable assertions? Or is it a judgement of dedication to certain practice? Does it mean a proper understanding of source materials? Surely a beginner who is earnestly trying to learn could be considered authentic. Maybe inauthentic would be someone pretending to have knowledge that they don't. I am completely inexperienced with the occult, is there an aspect of dogmatism to it? The information I find most valuable offers a novel (to me) perspective that can guide introspection, discovery and empathy.
 

solxyz

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I'm new here, but I find the idea of authenticity to be confusing. Do we mean proper handling of falsifiable assertions? Or is it a judgement of dedication to certain practice? Does it mean a proper understanding of source materials? Surely a beginner who is earnestly trying to learn could be considered authentic. Maybe inauthentic would be someone pretending to have knowledge that they don't. I am completely inexperienced with the occult, is there an aspect of dogmatism to it? The information I find most valuable offers a novel (to me) perspective that can guide introspection, discovery and empathy.
First of all, this thread is specific to those with a significant online presence and as such does not really apply to people who are new the field. If you're making an effort to orient, learn, practice diligently, and reflect honestly and thoughtfully, you're as "authentic" as can be.

You raise some decent issues, however. Part of the problem with this field is that the truths that really matter are not exactly objective, or at least not straightforwardly so. This is not to say that they are "subjective" either. Those categories don't really work here, but that is another topic. As such, there is no external authority or reference that we can look to when seeking to determine whether what someone is saying is true gold or whether they are just talking out their ass. Ultimately the only way to know is to check what they are saying against our own experience, but this can involve significant time and effort, and a lot of people aren't deeply enough in touch with their experience to really trust it anyway. In response, many people look for proxies - "falsifiable assertions," grounding in specific "source material," etc- by which they can evaluate someone's teaching. This is ok to an extent, and certainly if someone is making claims about specific source material we should want those claims to be accurate, but this kind of scholarly knowledge never really reaches the heart of the matter. Ultimately the only way to know what's real is to spend time exploring and deepening oneself and perhaps getting enlightened, or something like that. The more you do, the clearer it becomes who is speaking from a place of deep knowing and who is either just making up utter crap or just parroting other people's teachings without having gone through the relevant transformation or allowing unhealed emotional patterns to distort their understanding. And really there is always going to be a degree of uncertainty. That's just how life is.

I think you're exactly on target when you say "The information I find most valuable offers a novel (to me) perspective that can guide introspection, discovery and empathy." Keep that open, reflective, heart-centered approach and you'll do just fine.
 

Nembra

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The question is, as pointed out, not very specific. I think there are more variants than those two and that the roster is not very obviously skewed in any direction. Those can be genuine or cynical, knowledgable or delusional, open or snobish and so on, and I think I've seen most of the combinations find some media presence. I wouldn't care too much about them, ability to accrue large following is a function of personality trait called extraversion and not usually merit.
 

diskrete

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With all the experience i have made with various practitioners during the last 15 years, i will have to say this: you will NEVER find an authentic practitioner on the internet today (not that they are not using the internet, they are just not waisting their time on social media and website).

This is different at the 90, but the last authetic practitioners disappeared from the net slowly, with the last gone around 2010- 2014.

Good luck finding somebody who do not want to sacm you a few dollars right now. You can play lottery as well. I am speaking from my own experience, regarding the internet in 4 languages i can read.
 

Frater M.M.

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Hey guys, I wanted to ask what you think about people in the occult community who have a very large following and reach in platforms such as Youtube, Patreon etc. We all know who I’m referring to, so I’m not going to mention any specific names. This is meant as a general question.

10/15 years ago I'd have assumed (for YouTube) you were talking about someone like EAK. I've no idea who you're talking about today tho.

What do I think about ppl in the occult with large sub counts/following? Same as ppl not in the occult with large sub counts. Some are boring, some are ok, some are interesting. Can't really say more without being given someone specific to comment on :)
 
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