Destroyed a Goetic Earl's seal after he broke the deal: thoughts?

[agloval]

I worked with one of the Earls of the Goetia. To keep the pact, I invoked him for nine Fridays: I went up the mountain and did it in the first hour of each Friday. I was always courteous with him, gentleman to gentleman.

In the first two sessions he seemed willing to help. I wasn't looking for signs, but as I closed the circle a mouse stopped and stared at me, and later a yellow bird landed on my hand. I took the pact as accepted and kept going.

Then came car trouble, too coincidental to be chance. I didn't take it badly: I took it as a toll, maybe my own fault for not grounding/discharging properly. I laughed and accepted it.

From day one I made one thing clear: if he disrespected or deceived me, I would destroy his seal and cut all ties. I swore it.

I won't go into what I asked for. While he was working he gave ambiguous signs: things seemed to move, then he'd just stop. In the end he didn't just fail; I feel he deceived and disrespected me. So I kept my oath.

I drove three consecrated nails into his copper seal, told him not to come looking for me, and burned it as far as it would go. Closed with the LBRP. What was left I burned again with animal feces, sealed it in a black box and threw it in the trash.

I want to be clear about one thing: it wasn't done out of hatred. I didn't enjoy doing it. I know an Earl of hell probably couldn't care less that I burned his seal. But it was an affront that, as a magister, I wasn't willing to let slide. I had sworn it, and an oath like that doesn't get broken just because keeping it is uncomfortable.

I know most people will think I'm crazy, or that this was disrespectful toward the spirit. But I was respectful for nine Fridays, I even accepted the toll without complaint, and the warning was given beforehand. This wasn't a tantrum; it was keeping my word.

Questions:

• Has a Goetic spirit ever given you good signs at first, then ambiguous ones, seeming to work and then stopping? How did you read it?
• Have you ever punished or burned a spirit's seal? Any blowback afterward?
• Do you think I was within my rights, given the warning was made in advance?

Open to coments

 

[Nembra]

I can't say I have very extensive experiences with Goetia specifically, but there are some general regularities in those matters. It's really all about the architecture and politics of your inner world. A host should be well within his rights to expel a disrespectful guest, forcibly if required, but what etiquette you set for your estate is a thing of your own construction. I'd advise you to make sure you haven't agreed to something that would let him retaliate - spirits won't often share your sense of justice.

 

[solxyz]

When a spirit - of whatever class - seems to agree to a deal but then fails to deliver, I generally take this as an inability to accomplish what they intended rather than disrespect or wilful violation of a pact. Often there are signs of some motion in the desired direction, but simply not enough to achieve the desired end (and this seems to be the case in your situation as well). Nevertheless, this is in part why I generally structure my deals as a small initial offering in order to make the request, then any significant payment only after the request is actually fulfilled. If they fail to deliver for any reason, I simply move on. Sometimes, if it feels appropriate, especially for longer projects, I will engage in some kind of regular practice with the spirit in order to help maintain their activity and presence in my sphere. I do not, however, regard this as an offering or payment of any kind, but merely as doing my part to enable to the spirit to do theirs.

I do think that you were within your rights, especially since you specifically flagged this possible response at the outset.
I very much doubt there will be any blowback. My sense is that the spirits feel chastened in these kinds of situations and scurry away, becoming very hesitant to come around. Though sometimes prideful, they don't respond quite like humans do with a need to strike back in order to save face.

 

[Faria]

Has a Goetic spirit ever given you good signs at first, then ambiguous ones, seeming to work and then stopping? How did you read it?

When radical change arrives, it usually demands radical adaptation. Very often, the thing I wanted to happen requires something of me. Not some token gesture of honor to the spirit but some actual life change, altering the Who and What in my life. My ability to milk the demons for satisfaction seems pretty well tied to how much I'm willing to dive into the new situation.

Have you ever punished or burned a spirit's seal? Any blowback afterward?

Within "canon," what you do is get yourself some parchment - not paper but parchment, even cooking parchment - and write the seal on that in the circle, once any or all of its superiors have been invoked. Then you mix that in a box and burn it with asafetida and give the three curses etc. And then you are either done with the spirit forever or else it relents and does as you wish, and at that point you end up radically adapting whether you want to or not.

Do you think I was within my rights, given the warning was made in advance?

I'm not a fan of the "Let's Make a Deal" method of demon conjuring. The Old School demon pact is much more straightforward: you have them by the shorthairs from the get-go, the whole thing is just which direction you tug as you drag the demons to wherever you want. You aren't required, expected, or advised to be nice about it. On the contrary, your very first communication is instructed to be something like "You will do what I say or I will torture you until you do." You are now discovering why the other way doesn't work.

 

[ewiz]

I also tend to interpret a spirit's failure to deliver as an inability to accomplish the task for whatever reason, rather than a willful violation. Usually I discover why they failed later on, and find I could have avoided it had the target been better chosen. At least in my experience, the failure has been with my intentions more often than the spirits. That said, on a few occasions I have had spirits seem to string me along promising big things and then producing nothing. In those cases I simply cut ties with them and vowed not to work with them again. I haven't ritually destroyed seals like you did, but I wouldn't be too worried about any blowback. I remember Lon Milo talking about it before, and what he basically recommends is treating it like you're killing the spirit and then never try to summon it again. I think that's probably the best way to go about it. In the cases of spirits I felt wasted my time, I effectively view them as dead to me. Maybe that's how you should view your earl after this.

 

[nunaphael]

I worked with one of the Earls of the Goetia. To keep the pact, I invoked him for nine Fridays: I went up the mountain and did it in the first hour of each Friday. I was always courteous with him, gentleman to gentleman.

In the first two sessions he seemed willing to help. I wasn't looking for signs, but as I closed the circle a mouse stopped and stared at me, and later a yellow bird landed on my hand. I took the pact as accepted and kept going.

Then came car trouble, too coincidental to be chance. I didn't take it badly: I took it as a toll, maybe my own fault for not grounding/discharging properly. I laughed and accepted it.

From day one I made one thing clear: if he disrespected or deceived me, I would destroy his seal and cut all ties. I swore it.

I won't go into what I asked for. While he was working he gave ambiguous signs: things seemed to move, then he'd just stop. In the end he didn't just fail; I feel he deceived and disrespected me. So I kept my oath.

I drove three consecrated nails into his copper seal, told him not to come looking for me, and burned it as far as it would go. Closed with the LBRP. What was left I burned again with animal feces, sealed it in a black box and threw it in the trash.

I want to be clear about one thing: it wasn't done out of hatred. I didn't enjoy doing it. I know an Earl of hell probably couldn't care less that I burned his seal. But it was an affront that, as a magister, I wasn't willing to let slide. I had sworn it, and an oath like that doesn't get broken just because keeping it is uncomfortable.

I know most people will think I'm crazy, or that this was disrespectful toward the spirit. But I was respectful for nine Fridays, I even accepted the toll without complaint, and the warning was given beforehand. This wasn't a tantrum; it was keeping my word.

Questions:

• Has a Goetic spirit ever given you good signs at first, then ambiguous ones, seeming to work and then stopping? How did you read it?
• Have you ever punished or burned a spirit's seal? Any blowback afterward?
• Do you think I was within my rights, given the warning was made in advance?

Open to coments

Yes, I have had similar experiences. I more or less handled it the same way as you, not precisely, but in my own way, and it carried the same meaning, "you're fired. Clean out your desk." However, one thing I will stipulate is that, whenever things go awry, at first I usually attempt some form of divination as a "check in", you know, like when your boss pulls you into the office for a "talk". It's not punishment (yet), but it's like a verbal warning that you need to pick it up. After that, if they still don't complete their end of the bargain, then I would terminate the contract and dispose of the talisman. The most important thing with all of this is consistency and responsibility. It's not even about ethics, it's about coordination and efficiency. It's mostly impersonal, apart from the feeling of frustration at having wasted a bit of time and resources.

My personal disposition to it is like, I went to a restaurant, I ordered a meal, I ate the food, and it wasn't that good, but I still paid for it. The service might've been stellar, but I went there for a meal, not theatrics. I won't go back after that. In my years of practice I've only had such incidents occur three times. I handled them the same way you did pretty much. And I did not have any "blowback" from them. Just silence after that. They move on rather quickly in my experience.

 

[ahathoor]

What you describe sounds manipulative and dangerous. I'd be equally pissed off if a human did it to me.

Omg, that banishment though, big thug energy, that.. I've done a rude casting out before, more in a taltos / shamanic context, it involved fire-scorched eggs gone bad, a night forest with no light source on me, colorful language, screaming, and a host of ancestral protection and spirit guidance. It ended with an animal menacingly growling at me from the dark, and me getting it to back off. It wasn't a goetic spirit per se, but it ended in full release and no blowback.

I think you were within your rights, as "one created in the image of God" you have the right to answer rudeness with rudeness, manipulation and dishonesty with rebuke. Sometimes you just gotta be rude and let the f-bombs fly to get the point across.

The spirit is probably massively pissed off at you, so i wouldn't call it or anyone in its immediate network of relations again, I'd be careful even with its sovereign, and apologize profusely for being disrespectful to their servant, while holding and presenting the conviction that you were wronged.

 

[agloval]

Dentro del "canon", lo que haces es conseguir un poco de pergamino -no papel sino pergamino, incluso pergamino para cocinar- y escribir el sello en él en el círculo, una vez que se han invocado alguno o todos sus superiores. Luego lo mezclas en una caja y lo quemas con asafétida y le das las tres maldiciones, etc. Y luego o bien terminas con el espíritu para siempre o bien éste cede y hace lo que deseas, y en ese punto terminas adaptándote radicalmente, quieras o no.

I made his seal on the material corresponding to his rank and burned it to ashes.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 3:29 PM

I also tend to interpret a spirit's failure to deliver as an inability to accomplish the task for whatever reason, rather than a willful violation. Usually I discover why they failed later on, and find I could have avoided it had the target been better chosen. At least in my experience, the failure has been with my intentions more often than the spirits. That said, on a few occasions I have had spirits seem to string me along promising big things and then producing nothing. In those cases I simply cut ties with them and vowed not to work with them again. I haven't ritually destroyed seals like you did, but I wouldn't be too worried about any blowback. I remember Lon Milo talking about it before, and what he basically recommends is treating it like you're killing the spirit and then never try to summon it again. I think that's probably the best way to go about it. In the cases of spirits I felt wasted my time, I effectively view them as dead to me. Maybe that's how you should view your earl after this.

Yes, I act on that same premise, but as we say in my country, a little courtesy never hurt a gentleman, haha. That said, I understand your point.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 3:32 PM

Yes, I have had similar experiences. I more or less handled it the same way as you, not precisely, but in my own way, and it carried the same meaning, "you're fired. Clean out your desk." However, one thing I will stipulate is that, whenever things go awry, at first I usually attempt some form of divination as a "check in", you know, like when your boss pulls you into the office for a "talk". It's not punishment (yet), but it's like a verbal warning that you need to pick it up. After that, if they still don't complete their end of the bargain, then I would terminate the contract and dispose of the talisman. The most important thing with all of this is consistency and responsibility. It's not even about ethics, it's about coordination and efficiency. It's mostly impersonal, apart from the feeling of frustration at having wasted a bit of time and resources.

My personal disposition to it is like, I went to a restaurant, I ordered a meal, I ate the food, and it wasn't that good, but I still paid for it. The service might've been stellar, but I went there for a meal, not theatrics. I won't go back after that. In my years of practice I've only had such incidents occur three times. I handled them the same way you did pretty much. And I did not have any "blowback" from them. Just silence after that. They move on rather quickly in my experience.

Yes, I did something similar. After a month, I called upon his superior in the corresponding cardinal direction, so to speak, going straight to whoever was above him. I told him that I intended to do so and that I believed I was well within my rights. I realize these relationships may not work quite the same way as human hierarchies, but I figured it was worth a try. He seemed to put in more effort afterward, but he still failed to deliver.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 3:38 PM

What you describe sounds manipulative and dangerous. I'd be equally pissed off if a human did it to me.

Omg, that banishment though, big thug energy, that.. I've done a rude casting out before, more in a taltos / shamanic context, it involved fire-scorched eggs gone bad, a night forest with no light source on me, colorful language, screaming, and a host of ancestral protection and spirit guidance. It ended with an animal menacingly growling at me from the dark, and me getting it to back off. It wasn't a goetic spirit per se, but it ended in full release and no blowback.

I think you were within your rights, as "one created in the image of God" you have the right to answer rudeness with rudeness, manipulation and dishonesty with rebuke. Sometimes you just gotta be rude and let the f-bombs fly to get the point across.

The spirit is probably massively pissed off at you, so i wouldn't call it or anyone in its immediate network of relations again, I'd be careful even with its sovereign, and apologize profusely for being disrespectful to their servant, while holding and presenting the conviction that you were wronged.

And yes, maybe I was a little too accommodating. He had disrespected me pretty severely, but I accepted it as part of the price and didn't take it personally. I still don't hold it against him. The grimoires do have a reputation for portraying him as something of an asshole, but I figured that, on a human level, a little courtesy couldn't hurt. Things seemed to work well at first, after all.

That said, based on my divinations and the guidance I received, I felt I was well within my rights to do what I did. It wasn't just a whim or a matter of impatience. That's why I contacted his superior beforehand and explained what I would do if things came to that point. I wanted to make it clear that this wasn't arbitrary, but a consequence of the terms of our arrangement. I simply didn't want the contract paper in my house anymore, so I burned it.

In any case, I understand your point, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 3:41 PM

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your experiences and perspectives. I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts and advice. You’ve given me a lot to think about, and I’m grateful to all of you for contributing to the discussion. @Nembra @solxyz @Faria @ewiz @nunaphael @ahathoor

 

[kazuriel01]

I worked with one of the Earls of the Goetia. To keep the pact, I invoked him for nine Fridays: I went up the mountain and did it in the first hour of each Friday. I was always courteous with him, gentleman to gentleman.

In the first two sessions he seemed willing to help. I wasn't looking for signs, but as I closed the circle a mouse stopped and stared at me, and later a yellow bird landed on my hand. I took the pact as accepted and kept going.

Then came car trouble, too coincidental to be chance. I didn't take it badly: I took it as a toll, maybe my own fault for not grounding/discharging properly. I laughed and accepted it.

From day one I made one thing clear: if he disrespected or deceived me, I would destroy his seal and cut all ties. I swore it.

I won't go into what I asked for. While he was working he gave ambiguous signs: things seemed to move, then he'd just stop. In the end he didn't just fail; I feel he deceived and disrespected me. So I kept my oath.

I drove three consecrated nails into his copper seal, told him not to come looking for me, and burned it as far as it would go. Closed with the LBRP. What was left I burned again with animal feces, sealed it in a black box and threw it in the trash.

I want to be clear about one thing: it wasn't done out of hatred. I didn't enjoy doing it. I know an Earl of hell probably couldn't care less that I burned his seal. But it was an affront that, as a magister, I wasn't willing to let slide. I had sworn it, and an oath like that doesn't get broken just because keeping it is uncomfortable.

I know most people will think I'm crazy, or that this was disrespectful toward the spirit. But I was respectful for nine Fridays, I even accepted the toll without complaint, and the warning was given beforehand. This wasn't a tantrum; it was keeping my word.

Questions:

• Has a Goetic spirit ever given you good signs at first, then ambiguous ones, seeming to work and then stopping? How did you read it?
• Have you ever punished or burned a spirit's seal? Any blowback afterward?
• Do you think I was within my rights, given the warning was made in advance?

Open to coments

An altar and incense appropriate for the spirit must be prepared; if necessary, food and drink offerings should be included. After casting the circle and attuning the environment to the spirit's nature, you must summon it into the Triangle of Art. Do not proceed to the tasking phase until the spirit has fully manifested. I do not know which school of practice you follow, but if the spirit refuses to obey, burn its sigil inside an iron box along with sulfur and foul-smelling substances while reciting a curse; it will be forced to appear. This process may take some time, but eventually, it will manifest and be compelled to obey you. Additionally, you can emulate the glory of the Divine by wearing a sacred crown. Goetic spirits are prone to deception, so I would say that using coercive methods is practically essential.

 

[agloval]

An altar and incense appropriate for the spirit must be prepared; if necessary, food and drink offerings should be included. After casting the circle and attuning the environment to the spirit's nature, you must summon it into the Triangle of Art. Do not proceed to the tasking phase until the spirit has fully manifested. I do not know which school of practice you follow, but if the spirit refuses to obey, burn its sigil inside an iron box along with sulfur and foul-smelling substances while reciting a curse; it will be forced to appear. This process may take some time, but eventually, it will manifest and be compelled to obey you. Additionally, you can emulate the glory of the Divine by wearing a sacred crown. Goetic spirits are prone to deception, so I would say that using coercive methods is practically essential.

If I use my ceremonial linen garments, I don't wear a crown, but I do wear a kind of turban made from the linen. I always have my wand in my right hand, my dagger at my left hip, my lamen, and all the other ritual implements.

And yes, it seems that coercion goes hand in hand with working with some of these spirits. I suppose nobody likes having someone show up and tell them what to do. That's why I tried a friendlier approach, offering a small gift and telling the spirit that it would receive the full offering once the work was completed. Unfortunately, things didn't go quite as well as I had hoped.

 

[MorganBlack]

You can dissolve all agreements if they have not been honored and fulfilled.

Hell / Hades / the Underworld in both Greek myth and Catholic theology is very legalistic, and is governed by due process and Judgement. The GV makes the distinction between a explicit and implicit "pacts"- without all the Hollywood drama here. It just means a working agreement between parties. This is a business contact, not soul selling. And in business contracts are there to protect both parties. They can be dissolved if terms are not met. Do not try to cheat them or forget to honor your part. This is still a fraught pratice, but I think it is a good idea to spend time soul searching if you are being a cheat.

That said, I do not just call up a whole bunch of daimons like Lesser Key magicians tend to. Too many relationships to mind. I am more Vodou / Folk Catholic and I only keep a few long-term relationships, and that is it. So I am not making new agreements or forming one-off relationships all the time.

My two cents on the ritual working:

Okay. So you called him once a week? IMHO, the ritual intensity-over-time is a bit too low. Working "cool" is good. Cold is not. They get "fat and lazy," as we say. Hot and fast is increasingly dangerous as you get them riled up with emotional intensity, flames, and fierce theological liturgy. Alcohol, banging, yelling, and fire and brimstone preaching works here that way. But Fast and Hot work is also chaotic work. It is up to you how much you want to ramp them up.

The middle way I have found also works is lives somewhere between the One-and-Done, call, charge , and dismiss Solomonic methods (which works, btw, I did this early on) and the modern magic method mildly poking them with a mental stick a few times.

There is a still place here to bang, yell and demand, and to be more Solomonic, but is the middle way (to call it something) starts out more like a Novena. Karen the fuck out of them for 3, 7, or 9 consecutive days. If you think this is too mild, have you ever had a spammer or sales call that won't stop? Yeah. Irritating.

I also agree with the idea maybe they are being held up or detained. See Rankine of the Winds as a spirit uber. Not tried it yet, but I like the concept, n theory.

I had discovered what David Rankine recently called "Magical momentum" years ago by applying techniques from Catholic novenas, by calling them every day with moderate intensity. It works. The Solomonic methods works too, but you are working HOT and FAST.

I have never tried it, but hear the modern magic "transvocation" style seem to work too for folks, but that appears to keep the thought-beings in the mental realm and does not bringing them "down" into the tempestuous, paranormal lower etheric "Hell" world that the grims tend to do. It seems to work for folks but it also seems very COLD and slow, (and what Vodou would call "fat and lazy") and a bit mild to me. That all said, YMMV.

 

[kazuriel01]

If I use my ceremonial linen garments, I don't wear a crown, but I do wear a kind of turban made from the linen. I always have my wand in my right hand, my dagger at my left hip, my lamen, and all the other ritual implements.

And yes, it seems that coercion goes hand in hand with working with some of these spirits. I suppose nobody likes having someone show up and tell them what to do. That's why I tried a friendlier approach, offering a small gift and telling the spirit that it would receive the full offering once the work was completed. Unfortunately, things didn't go quite as well as I had hoped.

Honestly, working with demons doesn't seem very logical to me. I think elemental or planetary spirits are much easier and more effective; I can say that elemental spirits work quickly and well, especially for worldly matters—you should try working with them.

 

[agloval]

You can dissolve all agreements if they have not been honored and fulfilled.

Hell / Hades / the Underworld in both Greek myth and Catholic theology is very legalistic, and is governed by due process and Judgement. The GV makes the distinction between a explicit and implicit "pacts"- without all the Hollywood drama here. It just means a working agreement between parties. This is a business contact, not soul selling. And in business contracts are there to protect both parties. They can be dissolved if terms are not met. Do not try to cheat them or forget to honor your part. This is still a fraught pratice, but I think it is a good idea to spend time soul searching if you are being a cheat.

That said, I do not just call up a whole bunch of daimons like Lesser Key magicians tend to. Too many relationships to mind. I am more Vodou / Folk Catholic and I only keep a few long-term relationships, and that is it. So I am not making new agreements or forming one-off relationships all the time.

My two cents on the ritual working:

Okay. So you called him once a week? IMHO, the ritual intensity-over-time is a bit too low. Working "cool" is good. Cold is not. They get "fat and lazy," as we say. Hot and fast is increasingly dangerous as you get them riled up with emotional intensity, flames, and fierce theological liturgy. Alcohol, banging, yelling, and fire and brimstone preaching works here that way. But Fast and Hot work is also chaotic work. It is up to you how much you want to ramp them up.

The middle way I have found also works is lives somewhere between the One-and-Done, call, charge , and dismiss Solomonic methods (which works, btw, I did this early on) and the modern magic method mildly poking them with a mental stick a few times.

There is a still place here to bang, yell and demand, and to be more Solomonic, but is the middle way (to call it something) starts out more like a Novena. Karen the fuck out of them for 3, 7, or 9 consecutive days. If you think this is too mild, have you ever had a spammer or sales call that won't stop? Yeah. Irritating.

I also agree with the idea maybe they are being held up or detained. See Rankine of the Winds as a spirit uber. Not tried it yet, but I like the concept, n theory.

I had discovered what David Rankine recently called "Magical momentum" years ago by applying techniques from Catholic novenas, by calling them every day with moderate intensity. It works. The Solomonic methods works too, but you are working HOT and FAST.

I have never tried it, but hear the modern magic "transvocation" style seem to work too for folks, but that appears to keep the thought-beings in the mental realm and does not bringing them "down" into the tempestuous, paranormal lower etheric "Hell" world that the grims tend to do. It seems to work for folks but it also seems very COLD and slow, (and what Vodou would call "fat and lazy") and a bit mild to me. That all said, YMMV.

I usually call them once (goetics i mean), with all the paraphernalia that goes into a Goetic evocation. I prepare for days beforehand, sometimes even weeks. I chose nine Fridays because I knew it was going to be a lengthy process, and I wanted to see some progress and formally introduce myself each time, always telling him that he would gain glory if he did what I asked. That was mainly why I chose to do it over nine days, at dawn.

I look back on those early morning drives quite fondly, actually. Driving up to the mountain in the dark and arriving at sunrise was lovely. The scenery was beautiful, and that image made me laugh, hahaha. Properly good one

 

[kazuriel01]

I usually call them once (goetics i mean), with all the paraphernalia that goes into a Goetic evocation. I prepare for days beforehand, sometimes even weeks. I chose nine Fridays because I knew it was going to be a lengthy process, and I wanted to see some progress and formally introduce myself each time, always telling him that he would gain glory if he did what I asked. That was mainly why I chose to do it over nine days, at dawn.

I look back on those early morning drives quite fondly, actually. Driving up to the mountain in the dark and arriving at sunrise was lovely. The scenery was beautiful, and that image made me laugh, hahaha. Properly good one

Since you chose Friday, I assume it's a topic related to Venus?

 

[Faria]

always telling him that he would gain glory if he did what I asked.

THIS right here ^^^^^^^^^^ is exactly why you failed. Not half of it. Not some of it. This is 100% of the reason you didn't get what you wanted.

There is no two-way street. You either command them, or they own you.

Whoever told you to be nice and treat them like conscious entities with feelings... ignore them! Treat them more like vending machines that run on chatbots.

You have got to be prepared to destroy the whole universe to get what you want. Accept no substitutes, accept no excuses. Be ready to smite! And if you aren't willing to go that far, what you want is not wanted enough to warrant conjuring demons for it. These are not flies, you do not catch them with honey, you catch them with flamethrowers.

 

[agloval]

Since you chose Friday, I assume it's a topic related to Venus?

yes

Post automatically merged: Monday at 9:05 PM

THIS right here ^^^^^^^^^^ is exactly why you failed. Not half of it. Not some of it. This is 100% of the reason you didn't get what you wanted.

There is no two-way street. You either command them, or they own you.

Whoever told you to be nice and treat them like conscious entities with feelings... ignore them! Treat them more like vending machines that run on chatbots.

You have got to be prepared to destroy the whole universe to get what you want. Accept no substitutes, accept no excuses. Be ready to smite! And if you aren't willing to go that far, what you want is not wanted enough to warrant conjuring demons for it. These are not flies, you do not catch them with honey, you catch them with flamethrowers.

I keep with this : )

 

[protim]

I also tend to interpret a spirit's failure to deliver as an inability to accomplish the task for whatever reason, rather than a willful violation. Usually I discover why they failed later on, and find I could have avoided it had the target been better chosen. At least in my experience, the failure has been with my intentions more often than the spirits. That said, on a few occasions I have had spirits seem to string me along promising big things and then producing nothing. In those cases I simply cut ties with them and vowed not to work with them again. I haven't ritually destroyed seals like you did, but I wouldn't be too worried about any blowback. I remember Lon Milo talking about it before, and what he basically recommends is treating it like you're killing the spirit and then never try to summon it again. I think that's probably the best way to go about it. In the cases of spirits I felt wasted my time, I effectively view them as dead to me. Maybe that's how you should view your earl after this.

Wow, you are very experiend with spirits men. did you face any other problems with spirits?