[Help] Does practicing dark magic, or traditions, have an effect on one's soul or afterlife?

[lumineth Realm Lord]

I feel as if this is an important question to ask.

 

[deci belle]

Hello~ From my experience there is not one person who has a soul. But not to worry!

The important consideration is that all action partaken relative to self-reflective consciousness assimilates light or heavy karmic retribution relative to the situation.

It depends on the situation, most of all— if you are keeping score. But the real issue is that energetic "retribution", whether initiated by you or else by the Creative's impersonal organization, is that values of good or bad relative to your personal perspectives based on conditioned bias and inclination are unequivocally bound in terms of Creation— meaning that no karma is good karma.

Let me go a bit further with this. "Good" or "bad," karma is still karma, and that is ultimately binding in terms of your spiritual potential (that's the real immaterial substantive precious metal behind the tangible legal tender (karma), you're playing with (with some second thoughts as per your OP).

In saying that "no karma is good karma" is analogous in terms of the cliché from the mid-century Western film genre, "a good Indian is a dead Indian." No karma means dead, spent, purified, burnt-up impersonalized karma. It isn't karmic anymore. And such purification doesn't happen in hell or anywhere else referenced in provisional teachings the world over. You have no soul and there is no omnipotent creator god constituting a thing who cares a whit about it.

It's all at once in perpetuity. In terms of creation, karma keeps the world deluded in delusion, relative to personal psychological values, based on actions, your actions. You can perpetuate karma and you can purify karma.

Purifying karma is reverting created energy back into its potential~ like trading in paper money for gold. But there will be the tally based on action, your energetic action— and you may discover that you OWE!! Perhaps that may be an effective, but bad analogy…

As for reverting created energy into potential, enlightening beings do this as their day-jobs. Jesus did it famously on his own account— there's no other way to do it. We all can do it, but even if only on our own account, the result is universal, because potential isn't created, meaning such is undifferentiated, unified and selfless. Not a big deal, really, because awareness is not only universal, it isn't created either. And that is how it is the way it is— there is no why.

If you feel karma looming, mull it over before acting. After you act, it's too late for regrets.

 

[Morell]

I feel as if this is an important question to ask.

The same as anything else we do.

 

[beardedeldridge]

No you can’t stain/taint your soul with any action mundane or magical. Sorry no ripping your soul into pieces holcrux style either. But we do each have an eternal part of us (call it a soul or whatever) that continues after this body dies and you can affect what happens or your perception of what happens after that death by choices you make while you’re still alive. But no choice is irrevocable either.

-Eld

 

[ragingmagus]

yes, everything we do has consequences, magick of any kind doubly so as you are working with higher forces.

destroy a soul? from my view you cant destroy what's eternal, though you can certainly cause yourself a lot of problems that might take lifetimes to overcome.

black magic is also a huge spectrum of activities, some grounded in high wisdom but placing the self as the center of all, some far more destructive and reckless.

 

[System Error Message]

it depends what you mean by dark magic. to some its using magick for unethical reasons. in another term it could be talking about dark power.

Dark power is totally fine, granted difficult to wield but isnt the LHP and is actually a very good power, as you wouldnt want light power which is all just feels and illusion which often is mistaken for divine power.

You are totally free to use power for unethical reasons. Some powers i have would be considered very unethical due to the harm they can cause to others just by using them but they can also heal, just not in the conventional way. Rather theres no such thing as it darkening your soul as thats based on your own morality and acts. You dont need to do magick to darken yourself.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

I feel as if this is an important question to ask.

Let me speak to you from the heart, and from the long experience I’ve gathered in Eastern sciences—which have taught me that purification and grounding are not just slogans, but the very essence of survival. When we discuss "Dark Magic" or collaborating with demonic entities for selfish, worldly gains, we are talking about a path where one imposes their will on others, but at the cost of losing what is most precious. In my cultural and religious background, the Creator cannot be removed from the equation; dealing with these entities is seen as a corruption of the soul’s clarity. But beyond any sermon, look at the reality of the field: these entities are not obedient servants; they are inherently deceptive manipulators who prey on human vanity and unrealistic dreams. Ask yourselves honestly: which practitioner has actually gained the vast golden treasures promised in the ancient grimoires? The truth is, these entities do not grant you rank or power unless they intend to make you a slave in their own machine.

I see the "Prince of this World" today manipulating humanity through the veils of modern media and consumption, driving the soul toward collapse and the sale of the self for hollow fame. In the world of magic, this path literally erodes the soul. A practitioner who drowns in curses and malice lives without true protection, trapped in parasitic attachments that gnaw at their core, no matter how much they pretend to be solid. However, let me share a truth with you: no demon can truly "buy" your soul. Those blood-signed contracts are nothing more than human and historical inventions used to terrify the masses; the soul belongs to its Creator alone. If these entities had the power to create a soul, they wouldn't need a contract to own it. The real danger after death lies in "delegation." By collaborating with them, you choose to become a partner in their work and their fate. The price isn't just "karma"; it is a finality where you share their station in the afterlife—not because they will torture you, but because you will be with them in the same density and darkness.

In the end, remember that one is inevitably affected by their surroundings. If you walk the path of darkness with manipulative entities, do not expect to become anything other than a part of that world. Frequent evocations drive away the luminous and angelic presence from your life. As a Bishop once said at a wedding I attended—words that stayed with me deeply: "You cannot negotiate at two tables: the table of the Lord and the table of the Devil." Over time, you will find that your soul adopts the habits of the dark world; your judgment will be clouded, and you will find yourself growing in greed or cruelty. This journey has a heavy price that the practitioner will pay, no matter how clever they think they are at the start. This is the truth I believe in... what is it that you believe in?

 

[Elontir]

Let me speak to you from the heart, and from the long experience I’ve gathered in Eastern sciences—which have taught me that purification and grounding are not just slogans, but the very essence of survival. When we discuss "Dark Magic" or collaborating with demonic entities for selfish, worldly gains, we are talking about a path where one imposes their will on others, but at the cost of losing what is most precious. In my cultural and religious background, the Creator cannot be removed from the equation; dealing with these entities is seen as a corruption of the soul’s clarity. But beyond any sermon, look at the reality of the field: these entities are not obedient servants; they are inherently deceptive manipulators who prey on human vanity and unrealistic dreams. Ask yourselves honestly: which practitioner has actually gained the vast golden treasures promised in the ancient grimoires? The truth is, these entities do not grant you rank or power unless they intend to make you a slave in their own machine.

I see the "Prince of this World" today manipulating humanity through the veils of modern media and consumption, driving the soul toward collapse and the sale of the self for hollow fame. In the world of magic, this path literally erodes the soul. A practitioner who drowns in curses and malice lives without true protection, trapped in parasitic attachments that gnaw at their core, no matter how much they pretend to be solid. However, let me share a truth with you: no demon can truly "buy" your soul. Those blood-signed contracts are nothing more than human and historical inventions used to terrify the masses; the soul belongs to its Creator alone. If these entities had the power to create a soul, they wouldn't need a contract to own it. The real danger after death lies in "delegation." By collaborating with them, you choose to become a partner in their work and their fate. The price isn't just "karma"; it is a finality where you share their station in the afterlife—not because they will torture you, but because you will be with them in the same density and darkness.

In the end, remember that one is inevitably affected by their surroundings. If you walk the path of darkness with manipulative entities, do not expect to become anything other than a part of that world. Frequent evocations drive away the luminous and angelic presence from your life. As a Bishop once said at a wedding I attended—words that stayed with me deeply: "You cannot negotiate at two tables: the table of the Lord and the table of the Devil." Over time, you will find that your soul adopts the habits of the dark world; your judgment will be clouded, and you will find yourself growing in greed or cruelty. This journey has a heavy price that the practitioner will pay, no matter how clever they think they are at the start. This is the truth I believe in... what is it that you believe in?

thanks a lot!!!

 

[Angelkesfarl]

thanks a lot!!!

"My deepest gratitude to you. Please, never hesitate to reach out for anything at any time; I am always here for you."

 

[FireBorn]

It frees you from the dualistic, dogmatic, religious framework so you can realize you are sovereign, and always were.

We dont truly know. That is what makes it so cool. We get this life, this one unique life. Why obsess on what comes next? I will find out after this one, until then? I wanna eat, drink, fuck, laugh, cry, and live a life that makes the god jealous.

That is just how I see it, and I am 100% willing to be wrong. If your path is religious, I won’t stand in your way. Just don’t expect me to kneel.

 

[Morell]

Let me speak to you from the heart, and from the long experience I’ve gathered in Eastern sciences—which have taught me that purification and grounding are not just slogans, but the very essence of survival. When we discuss "Dark Magic" or collaborating with demonic entities for selfish, worldly gains, we are talking about a path where one imposes their will on others, but at the cost of losing what is most precious. In my cultural and religious background, the Creator cannot be removed from the equation; dealing with these entities is seen as a corruption of the soul’s clarity. But beyond any sermon, look at the reality of the field: these entities are not obedient servants; they are inherently deceptive manipulators who prey on human vanity and unrealistic dreams. Ask yourselves honestly: which practitioner has actually gained the vast golden treasures promised in the ancient grimoires? The truth is, these entities do not grant you rank or power unless they intend to make you a slave in their own machine.

I see the "Prince of this World" today manipulating humanity through the veils of modern media and consumption, driving the soul toward collapse and the sale of the self for hollow fame. In the world of magic, this path literally erodes the soul. A practitioner who drowns in curses and malice lives without true protection, trapped in parasitic attachments that gnaw at their core, no matter how much they pretend to be solid. However, let me share a truth with you: no demon can truly "buy" your soul. Those blood-signed contracts are nothing more than human and historical inventions used to terrify the masses; the soul belongs to its Creator alone. If these entities had the power to create a soul, they wouldn't need a contract to own it. The real danger after death lies in "delegation." By collaborating with them, you choose to become a partner in their work and their fate. The price isn't just "karma"; it is a finality where you share their station in the afterlife—not because they will torture you, but because you will be with them in the same density and darkness.

In the end, remember that one is inevitably affected by their surroundings. If you walk the path of darkness with manipulative entities, do not expect to become anything other than a part of that world. Frequent evocations drive away the luminous and angelic presence from your life. As a Bishop once said at a wedding I attended—words that stayed with me deeply: "You cannot negotiate at two tables: the table of the Lord and the table of the Devil." Over time, you will find that your soul adopts the habits of the dark world; your judgment will be clouded, and you will find yourself growing in greed or cruelty. This journey has a heavy price that the practitioner will pay, no matter how clever they think they are at the start. This is the truth I believe in... what is it that you believe in?

So this is how this truth looks when filtered by your religion.. This does explore some real stuff there indeed, although then mixes it iwth abrahamic coloring.

Alright, this deserves some peak into.

Who you relate with does matter as above as well as bellow. If you relate with bad humans you unconsciously learn their behavior, same as if you relate with good humans. If you move into another country alone, you will inevitably integrate better, you will change. It is also known that if you work with some spirit, you will become similar tot he spirit in behavior but you will even start to physically look related. That is caused by energy exchange between you and the spirit. This is natural side effect.

And when I mentioned moving to another country, here the demons sort of come into play, though abrahamics want all humans for themselves so they demonize all other groups that are not their group, or their society. But there are many societies among spirits. Consider old fairytales. (not named that way for nothing) Sometimes a being of other than human kind comes to live among humans and even stays and never returns home to their species and family, becomes a human. You have tales of elves marrying humans, mermaids, faries, etc. But it can go other way around too. Some humans become part of these otherkin groups and leave human world... and some never come back, leaving humanity behind they become part of these otherkin species, elves, mermaids, etc. You can become angel or demon too. The world is vast.

True, there are some bad spirits that like to trap humans, but even then your free will is impossible to take away completely. So even some people who actually physically disappear are able to find their way back. Even when they then incarnate among other species and don't want to be there, they can find their way back for another life. Again, there is some truth to the fairytales and myths of old.

So when it comes to interaction with spirits, just like with humans, on the common it doesn't much matter. If you want to become part of some spirit society, you are free to choose them, but then it takes some work to become one of them. You need indeed to change.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Let me speak to you from the heart, and from the long experience I’ve gathered in Eastern sciences—which have taught me that purification and grounding are not just slogans, but the very essence of survival. When we discuss "Dark Magic" or collaborating with demonic entities for selfish, worldly gains, we are talking about a path where one imposes their will on others, but at the cost of losing what is most precious. In my cultural and religious background, the Creator cannot be removed from the equation; dealing with these entities is seen as a corruption of the soul’s clarity. But beyond any sermon, look at the reality of the field: these entities are not obedient servants; they are inherently deceptive manipulators who prey on human vanity and unrealistic dreams. Ask yourselves honestly: which practitioner has actually gained the vast golden treasures promised in the ancient grimoires? The truth is, these entities do not grant you rank or power unless they intend to make you a slave in their own machine.

I see the "Prince of this World" today manipulating humanity through the veils of modern media and consumption, driving the soul toward collapse and the sale of the self for hollow fame. In the world of magic, this path literally erodes the soul. A practitioner who drowns in curses and malice lives without true protection, trapped in parasitic attachments that gnaw at their core, no matter how much they pretend to be solid. However, let me share a truth with you: no demon can truly "buy" your soul. Those blood-signed contracts are nothing more than human and historical inventions used to terrify the masses; the soul belongs to its Creator alone. If these entities had the power to create a soul, they wouldn't need a contract to own it. The real danger after death lies in "delegation." By collaborating with them, you choose to become a partner in their work and their fate. The price isn't just "karma"; it is a finality where you share their station in the afterlife—not because they will torture you, but because you will be with them in the same density and darkness.

In the end, remember that one is inevitably affected by their surroundings. If you walk the path of darkness with manipulative entities, do not expect to become anything other than a part of that world. Frequent evocations drive away the luminous and angelic presence from your life. As a Bishop once said at a wedding I attended—words that stayed with me deeply: "You cannot negotiate at two tables: the table of the Lord and the table of the Devil." Over time, you will find that your soul adopts the habits of the dark world; your judgment will be clouded, and you will find yourself growing in greed or cruelty. This journey has a heavy price that the practitioner will pay, no matter how clever they think they are at the start. This is the truth I believe in... what is it that you believe in?

My soul doesn't belong to a creator or anything. My soul belongs to me, for I am the only creatrix. If I decide to not create anymore, my soul flows back to the big nameless soup of energy. But only if I decide to do so. My soul is my creation.

 

[Sabbatius]

First, magic is a tool. Nothing more.
Like the art of fencing, we utilize the tool of magic in differing forms. Some choose the ceremonial form- others choose traditional witchcraft, etc.
The tool does nothing to change or alter your being.
You do. It is you who determines your being. Good or Evil is all on you.
It is all your choice. Not magic. Not the screwdriver. Not the crescent wrench.
Just you.

 

[Nerone]

It is fairly well known that the Greek word for soul is "Psyche". So, notwithstanding whatever beliefs, speculations, theories and experiences one may have of the afterlife, let's re-frame the question to something more tangible and less spooky: "Does practising dark magic, or traditions, have an effect on ones psyche?". The answer, depending on the type of operation, is different gradations of yes; some operations are more external, go-get-shit-done mercenary like, while others are of a more internal, change-my-constitution, two-way-street kind of deal.

Most of the ideas we carry are not our own. There is a lot that we absorb passively, without ever questioning it, by cultural osmosis. Collective memes. Specifically, the idea that all daemons are wholly evil and meant to keep us away from the Light of God is attributed to one of the early Christian Church Fathers, Justin Martyr. Whereas some pagans allowed for daemons to be of a mixed nature - that is, good, evil and in between - he considered ALL daemons to be WHOLLY evil. This idea rang out and stuck around through the centuries, to the point that it's the default view of most people, whether engaging in the occult or not; and when engaging in the occult, this presupposition remains unchecked and becomes a source of fear, anxiety and guilt.

First of all. Please pick up a classical Grimoire like the Grimorium Verum or the Key of Solomon and read through the entry for what office each spirit rules and what they can grant/accomplish/teach. Example from the Key of Solomon, 71st Spirit, Duke Dantalion: "His office is to teach all arts and sciences..."

Very spooky.

Now, lets turn the tables around and look at the planetary hymns of the Picatrix, a Grimoire that specifically calls upon the Celestial, Angelic Intelligence of the planets. Here's an example for Mars:

"... I ask you by the light, strength, and power placed in you by God, the Lord of all the world, that you may send one from among your furies against this my enemy so that he may be separated from me, and direct his thoughts so that he may not remember me or think of me, and send against him pains and miseries and great vengeance and harm of such a kind that I will be able to receive from him what he took from me, and that his hands and feet may be cut off by me, and that he may receive every evil and misery from me, as well as the wrath and fury of the king; that his body and his wealth alike be given by me to thieves and robbers; and let him suffer in his body from sores and fevers and blindness of his eyes and deafness of his ears; and let all his senses be destroyed so that he is made blind, deaf, and mute, and contracted in all his limbs; and give to him pains and protracted miseries, and spoil food and drink and every flavor for him; and let him be deprived of life, and inflict on him every kind of misery and pain; and on his body, wealth, children, and associates inflict vengeance, and the wrath and fury of the king; pour out on him the enmity of his neighbors and his parents, and let thieves have his lordship and lands, and pursue him wherever he goes by land or sea. Let all the aforesaid be effectually accomplished, that he may be hurled down from his office and estate..."

Now THAT is pretty grim.

It's very simplistic to believe that Heaven = Good and Underworld = Bad, but reality isn't that black and white. Thomas Karlsson has an interesting section in his "Qabalah, Qliphoth and Goetic Magic" that discusses the ontological notion of evil among the various traditions. It's a worthwhile read-through.

Anyhow. Just like your company influences your character, so does the spirits we keep around. "Tell me with whom you consort and I will tell you who you are". Another way to look at it is if you're doing much of Saturnine invocation, that the effects of Saturn will make a mark upon your character, upon your mood, upon your thoughts, attitude, your relations and so forth. So you would need a counterbalance to the Dry and Cold qualities of Saturn by working with the Wet and Hot nature of Jupiter, for example.

There is indeed a danger of being excessively influenced by working with Chthonic spirits, but it hasn't so much to do with any potential damnation of the soul in eternal darkness from the light of God as I see it, but more a question of imbalance down the road. It can go wrong other ways, but when done right, there is still an effect that is worthwhile to pay attention to. David Crowhurst in his "Stellas Daemonum" had a rather brilliant remark that this is part of the reasoning behind the very pious approach of the Grimoires, with the long prayers, fasting and sexual abstinence - this acting as a Celestial counterbalance, an anchorage so to speak, against working with strong Chthonic currents.

From the perspective of classical Demonology, besides the influence of Justin Martyr, there is the notion that the Chthonic spirits, due to their proximity to this our Earth are closer to human passions and indeed participate in them. It is important to note that, due to the Neoplatonic influence on Christian praxis and the Grimoire tradition, passions, being of Earth, were considered contrasting and detrimental to reason, being of Heaven. It would eventually lead the poet Edward Young to sing: "Are passions, then, the Pagans of the soul? Reason alone baptized?"

In this vein, there's a cool cat haunting these forums going by "MorganBlack" who once described them, in the language of New World sorcery, as being very "petwo", or "hot". This echoes what my own teacher said, describing most of them as being potentially very volatile and emotionally extreme in their response. It's seems a fairly common sentiment amongst some circles.

I have likewise seen a handful of practitioners going off the deep end psychologically by working with the Chthonic currents too frequently and exclusively without any counterbalance. It would be like working with Saturnine currents extensively and wondering where the world renunciating asceticism and preoccupation with death comes from, why your aren't jolly and the life of the party, or why you have anger issues after prolonged exposure to Martial currents.

You are free to speculate about any karmic retribution or divine justice being done for working with such spirits, that's another can of cultural meme worms, but in this life, this potential of imbalance is something I think worthwhile keeping in mind and something I rarely see mentioned

 

[Angelkesfarl]

I agree with some of your views and disagree with others. However, let us find common ground on a crucial point: even if we consider the Goetia to be solely for dealing with the Left-Hand Path, dark magic, or demons, the entire trajectory of the subject is built upon an important principle. When you deal with the spirits of Venus, for instance, you tend toward sensuality and total immersion. As noted in books on planetary magic, one must immerse oneself in the planet's details. For example, when evoking a spirit of Venus, you must surround yourself with 'Mardan' (an allusion to certain sensualities), women, silk garments, specific foods, songs, and music. How do we interpret this total immersion during the union with these spirits? Can we apply this as a governing law for everything below it, considering it the essence behind anything reliant on planets and stars?

Another example: look at the Goetia. In every book I have consulted—and I thank modern machine translation for allowing me to see this—they seem to be written based on Solomonic instructions that clearly identify 'demons' and do not define them otherwise. They differentiate them from angels. Furthermore, all these texts urge the testing of the present spirit and distinguish clearly in attire and form (e.g., 'without deformity' for angels, while describing deformity for demons and sensory perfection for angels). All of this serves as a glaring warning that there is something significant behind the word 'demons.'

In Eastern sciences—upon which the books of Goetia or even the Shem HaMephorash are based via their Jewish origins—connecting with angelic spirits and entities requires fasting, physical and moral purity, and a reduction in food. It is a clear and explicit matter: angels are extremely pure creatures. You do not 'force' them into your service, so to speak; rather, you must become like them so that the 'Name' sanctifies you, allowing you to rise to their level, for they do not descend to yours. Does this not signal something important? I believe it does.

Finally, in the Eastern classification, there are no spirits of the dead that can do anything for you without the Creator's permission. This path contradicts another path in Arabic, Islamic, and global Sufism, which suggests that the spirits of the righteous can hear you, overflow upon you, or guide you toward the path of Light. Furthermore, the rest of the world is divided into 'Jinn.' In the Arabic definition, Jinn are choice-making creatures like us; they possess their own will and perceptions that exceed human capabilities in many aspects, yet they are diverse. There are pagan Jinn, Muslim Jinn, Jewish Jinn, Christian Jinn, and those who worship planets or their own leaders. Among them is a distinct branch called 'Taghut.' The Arabic word Taghut means 'Satan' (Shaitan). In the Arabic definition, he was the first to call for idolatry, appointing himself a god and naming himself the Morning Star and the sun Helios. This is the Arabic definition of Satan. In our tradition, Satan also has female consorts, procreates, and begets demons. They are originally of the same fiery race as the Jinn, but they differ from the rest in that they all owe loyalty to Iblis and consider him the god of the black, dark world. They are in a war with the True God—not a war of physical battles, but an intellectual war based on the idea that they want all humans to be embroiled in any religion or group, no matter how different or distant, as long as they support any human thought with their magical power. The essential condition is that it opposes the idea of the Oneness of God. The burden of proving the existence of any other deity is built upon their assistance in that regard, and they have absolute freedom in how and how much they assist.

Therefore, in the Dark Path, I see that the matter must inevitably affect the person involved in their trajectories. As for the existence of geniuses—and the word 'Genius' (Abqari) in Arabic refers to the 'Valley of Abqar' and is attributed to the Jinn—the word in Arabic means a 'wise Jinn.' Naturally, the Jinn possess vast kingdoms; not all are classified as demons, nor do they all care about this 'Satanic war.' They can also connect with certain humans, befriending them or forming covenants and agreements to perform mutual services. Many of our scholars and sages warn of a simple idea: 'Do not be deceived by yourself.' Your lifespan compared to theirs is like the difference between the life of a fruit fly and a tortoise. If a fruit fly looks at a tortoise, it seems eternal and immortal. Likewise, when we look at entities that can live for thousands of years, you will not be able to perceive their plan based on your limited analysis or thought, which is constrained by your short lifespan relative to theirs; they will bypass you easily.

What I mean is that 'immersion,' as many have warned, will transform you into the likeness of those you deal with. Therefore, I believe the human mind, when dealing with entities from other worlds, requires great wisdom, firm faith, and intense alertness to answer one simple question: Am I changing, and where will this change lead me?

Thank you all. I appreciate your role in enriching this discussion. Happy holidays.

 

[Nerone]

Therefore, I believe the human mind, when dealing with entities from other worlds, requires great wisdom, firm faith, and intense alertness to answer one simple question: Am I changing, and where will this change lead me?

There's a really curious passage in the Grimorium Verum. In one part, it says:

"The spirits, who are powerful and exalted, serve only their confidants and intimate friends..."

And later:

"Whoever makes a friend his superior, makes himself an enemy"