For those who work with spirits…what do you prefer?

[Fr. Maximagus]

Do you prefer the traditional grimoire/Solomonic route of full evocation OR do you prefer instead the method known as pathworking?

the latter is much simpler and more accessible for most people. It’s also overall easier to connect with the spirits as you are essentially “going to them” rather than dragging their asses into the physical realm. They also tend to be more chill this route And it’s considered overall a safer route.

the former however has many purists who would claim it’s “the only true way”.

Im curious to hear from those of you who have perhaps tried both and which you prefer and why.

 

[Evara]

the former however has many purists who would claim it’s “the only true way”.

Never listen to these people. They don't understand the veil.
The veil is co-created. It's like memory foam that many cultures have pushed their souls into.
At one point in time... incense and candles didn't mean jack shit to the veil other than their natural, undefined properties.

The veil can evolve. It might give a pantheon, culture or cult side eye while it's evolving though... and it can reject what doesn't serve it and humanity. So it really comes down to you and what the veil can parse.
So use whatever feels natural/best. Just... you know... don't try inventing something entirely new unless you're in a group and everyone is doing it...
Otherwise the veil is just going to scratch its metaphorical head, look at you and go, "you're not trying to talk to me... right?"

It's best to pick and choose and culturally appropriate systems from the traditions that resonate with you the most.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 11:11 PM

And if I'm trying to invoke a spirit or deity... it's going to be a tailor made ritual.

Usually the best thing to use is a sigil. You want to work within the archetypal currents of whoever you are trying to contact.

I'll give you an example.
I wanted to contact Ix Chel from the Mayan pantheon. I wanted to talk to her about a few things...

The Mayan pantheon likes to work within certain sequences. You only do certain things at certain moments. The cycle that Ix Chel is tied to is the moon. So on August 28th I contacted her on the waxing crescent.
I used a silver bowl of moon water and blue cotton string in the invocation.
Bowl= womb, bowl of water= mirror (moon resonance), moon water and string to honor who domain of weaving.
I offered her hot chocolate, use a brazier for an oil fire and the burnt herbs and resins in it for her (I don't remember what).
I also ritually tied the string with her.

But it worked very well, and things went as I had hoped.

 

[MorganBlack]

There's no such thing as grimiore purists.

Maybe back in 2004 for a little bit with Dr. Joseph Lisiewski. Seriously, avoid his stuff.

But it's also true that's a strawman made by authors trying you simplified magic books - or people posing as 20th Lev. Big Magus Hufflepuff who Works Empty Handed.

For the record: The grims are Rites of Contact. (i.e, getting their attention) .

After you make contact the spirts will give you simple cantrips, a symbol, maybe a song, to call them without the formal protocols.

We all edit and modify them to make them our own , but you have to know why all that weird and old medieval stuff is in there in the first place.

 

[Fr. Maximagus]

There's no such thing as grimiore purists.

Maybe back in 2004 for a little bit with Dr. Joseph Lisiewski. Seriously, avoid his stuff.

But it's also true that's a strawman made by authors trying you simplified magic books - or people posing as 20th Lev. Big Magus Hufflepuff who Works Empty Handed.

For the record: The grims are Rites of Contact. (i.e, getting their attention) .

After you make contact the spirts will give you simple cantrips, a symbol, maybe a song, to call them without the formal protocols.

We all edit and modify them to make them our own , but you have to know why all that weird and old medieval stuff is in there in the first place.

Any thoughts on pathworking? ever tried it?

 

[MorganBlack]

Pathworking... which we might call "transvocation" style conjuring totally works, I hear! I was skeptical at first but many say it works,

I will add also hang on Demonolatry forums (love those guys) and they say it does not always work , so YMMV.

From a spirit-based animist perceptive it's because they have not gotten their attention yet. So If you have any connection issues, I'd say spam them until they come, over 3 consecutive days or more until they do.

Use a pendulum or other form of divination to ping them. This way your communication in less tied to your conscious personality.

A balanced stance is best to hold: believe, but not too much.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 2:50 AM

Funny thing. In my early rites of Goetia I used self-hypnosis I taught myself. But I had them appear in my physical space, with all the attendant poltergeist phenom.

Which, is totally not necessary for practical sorceous results. Meh, I was very young, it was the 1990's. And everybody knew nothing.

 

[Wintruz]

Conjuration is on pause in my current work but the most effective method by miles (for me at least) was neither, but the traditional witchcraft route of befriending through resonance (this also fit in well with Trika - my underlying "system"). Here you're enticing rather than commanding. Go to a liminal place (woods, thresholds, crossroads, etc.), cook up some scents and items linked to who you're befriending (a cauldron is useful for this) and speak with sincerity. Pre-written rhyming chants are useful, both as offering and to put the mind into a receptive state.

When they arrive, you'll know.

 

[Mannimarco]

the most effective method by miles (for me at least) was neither, but the traditional witchcraft route of befriending through resonance

Agreed, 100%.

 

[Sabbatius]

I work with "spirits" which are the manitou. Though I dabbled, quite deep actually- into Solomonic work, it never provided anything as intense and as much depth as the work I have been doing for over three decades now.

Honestly, I delved into Solomonic work mainly because the texts themselves interested me. Seals, sigils, circles and tools are, to virtually anyone who likes the arcane, are extremely cool- to look at, to research and to use. It is a child-like state of euphoria when you just know the practice, shaving just enough off the handle for the best grip from the willow rod you decided to use instead of rowan.

But in the overall practice, I implement both with my tribal practices, to summon to my designated location prepared for ceremony, and I travel to the other worlds- for retrieval, for soul work, for the journey- much depends on what is asked of me by other family, friends, tribal or not. Both are used and both have their purposes. Pathworking, or journeying- is performed by ritual whereas summoning- or as the term I prefer to avoid- evoking, is used for ceremonial gathering.

 

[MorganBlack]

Right on! Goetia becomes very "witchy" once contact is made.

Jake Stratton-Kent , who has done much of the historical spadework on this spooky end of trad magic, made the point historical European witchcraft is literally Goetia.

On the more Michael Harner-esque 'Core Shamanism ' side of things, I agree there is still work to do going to meet spirits in the landscape.

 

[Fracula]

Conjuration is on pause in my current work but the most effective method by miles (for me at least) was neither, but the traditional witchcraft route of befriending through resonance (this also fit in well with Trika - my underlying "system"). Here you're enticing rather than commanding. Go to a liminal place (woods, thresholds, crossroads, etc.), cook up some scents and items linked to who you're befriending (a cauldron is useful for this) and speak with sincerity. Pre-written rhyming chants are useful, both as offering and to put the mind into a receptive state.

When they arrive, you'll know.

can this be done to ally with incubus and succubus or mullo and vampire type spirits? would love to know how to do it!

 

[Wintruz]

can this be done to ally with incubus and succubus or mullo and vampire type spirits? would love to know how to do it!

Yes.

I will post a separate "How to" thread so as to not derail this one.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Both. Or is often the case in a lot of practices, a hybrid of the two.

ime evocation is the best way to assure the results you seek, especially when you first start working with an entity or when what you want is a heavy lift. But to the point that Morgan was making, it isn’t necessarily required once a working relationship has been established. Also as they pointed out, as your practice evolves the difference between the two becomes more…pliable.

-Eld

 

[MorganBlack]

Yep yep.

Nahu Native American on my mom's side, here.
Not flexing, just signaling I'm not appropriating , if that matters to you:

In the New Word indigenous "shamanic" understanding we need myths, stories , for us to even become visible to the spirit world. And in return these are thought-beings who need a structure from us to have forms we can perceive.

I know people want to go find the Pure Religion, without any myth, - but brujos and magicians consecrate ourselves , our ritual gear, candles, etc. and offerings so they and we becomes visible , and interdimensional diplomacy can commence.

From Beyond: Flip that Resonator switch! Do it!