GV experience or GG experience??

[Divinewhisper07]

Has anyone worked with some spirit in GV or GG?? Whats your experience???

 

[HoldAll]

You know, using such abbreviations in the heading makes it harder for other members looking for similiar information. They're also confusing for anyone not sharing your interest in grimoires.

@MorganBlack is our resident GV expert, btw.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

So "GG" is Grand Grimoire, and "GV" is Grimoire Verum, right?

 

[Divinewhisper07]

So "GG" is Grand Grimoire, and "GV" is Grimoire Verum, right?

Yes exactly

 

[A.Nox]

I worked . But ,,some spirit,, is very broad question. which one you mean and what exactly you try to accomplish?

GV is not really kind of grimoire where you just pick random spirit and go. It have whole structure and system behind it.
If you already worked through the book then probably you already have some framework in mind. Can discuss specifics if you want.

 

[MorganBlack]

Thank you for that @HoldAll !

I do consider myself a simple end-user, and really only encourage others to take up the practice just so I have more company. It was a very lonely practice until recently. Just read all the authors and take what you need.

Re: Sharing experiences. Hmmm, These are very sacred things, and an authentic practitioner is less likely to broadcast them on the internet in lurid technicolor. I'm always a bit torn on sharing more since they are specific to myself and my personal journey. As will be yours for you.

But can talk about whether we were effective or not, if our work to make changes in the world worked, so I encourage everyone to conjure them and tell them to bring about real-world effects (sorcery). Then you have a simple truth-test for whether your practice is being effective. Extreme manifestations, like those here and below, are also not required for sorcery. These are for you in other ways.

OK, If you want get a sense of the extreme, downright paranormal theophanic manifestations look like, see this thread.

Author - Jason S. Black’s notes from 'Pacts with The Devil' (1993)

The macro-level topic here might be 'Shifting into a Daimonic Universe.' More below. I'd been meaning to post these excerpts from the early 1990's book Pacts with the Devil (by S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt, Ph. D., New Falcon Press, 1993) as the evocatory bookend to the simple but...

wizardforums.com

----------------

I vouch for Mr. Jason Black here. My experiences mirror his, with some being even more extreme and personally beneficial.

I do not know exactly what triggers it, but I THINK is requires:

1. finding a balance of engaging deeply in the meaning of the work without cramping - by being open to the experience and without trying to over-explain it or lock it down too much.

2. Actually expecting them to show up. For me, "expectation" is a feeling akin to sitting down to watch a movie or concert you've been looking forward t - that distinct sense that you are about to witness something AMAZING! A little trepidation is fine, but avoid outright fear and terror.

Sharing specific details carries credibility issues. People lie and embellish too much, I feel. Back in the 2010s, a group of edgelords sold magic books full of tatoo flash by hyping up their mental visions as full physical manifestations, which only cheapens what should be deeply personal and sacred experiences.

But it's a Catch-22.

Reading about the experiences of others can help trigger your own - and there is an inner game at play here. While mental-evocation methods are probably fine, they also prime everyone's ritual expectations in specific ways, shaping you into a particular mold. Not to be too harsh, but from where I stand, it looks like everyone is being turned into New-Age-channelers-with-demons.

OK, in one of my most extreme occurrences, I was "abducted" by one of my allies, healed of a couple of maladies, and given some weird powers, which ultimately triggered my need to leave one of the biggest and most famous tech companies in the world where I was working. This is NOT typical or even that useful. The after effects here were extreme changes in my "lower" personality for the better. I think is just has to be that time in you persoanl journey.

This stuff also can be hard to process, but it is ultimately they;re meant to make you a bigger person. I don't "do" aliens, but I can thank Gordon White for introducing me to the UAP/UFO contactee community. They share a lot in common with this kind of experience, even if I feel they are interacting with a completely different class of daimon - and yes, the UAPs are daimons, as many in that community have noted recently (but said with some old langage, calling them"demons").

OK, Without giving the specific details here , those which are for me. You will have your own, and they will be in your own perssonal language and cultural expectations so some dgree. I split the difference can call it all "half you"

I mentioned this elsehere, but my GV ally appeared in my game room in Los Angeles. As solid as you or a refigerator. About 7 feel tall, and in the corner taking uip the floot to ceieling. It was in the late afternoon, and athe bright L.A. sun was streaming in. I was not scared, and rather facinated by his appearance. The shapes and colors his head were made of are things I now recognize as being "him," and a sort of call sign or shape language. . When I call him using the GV invocations as a simple cantrip they work as daimonic UI-UX to know it's him. My vision will begin swirling, forming a tunnel made of what his head looked like, there in my room.

I discoverd I can call him this way during an extreme case of food poisoning.

It was at home and was horrible , and it felt like I was being stabbed by shards of glass in my side. I really feared I would need to go to the hospital. After writhing on the floor for some time, steadingly mysrlf enough through the pain to say them clearly, I said the invocations from the GV, which I have memorized. After maybe thee rounds? I did not count - and then my vision clouded over with a swirling tunnel whose walls were made of a membrane that matched the pattern and color of his head that i saw in my game room. . There was no auditory contact, but in a few minutes, I was totally fine.

He is a disease daimon, whom I had originally called to destroy a Dark Triad predator executive that was harassing my wife at another famous game publisher (which he did). In the process I learned that he is also a health daimon. This makes sense. Spirits who are masters of a "domain" control both that domain's positive and negative aspects. Thus, he can blight a person's career, health, or relationship just as easily as he can heal them.

You can probably achieve this type of manifestation using other grimoires, but the GV is a pact-based rite. The pact-based grim are deeply chthonic. I will also add the GV rites inherently provide certain safety protocols. I really have not had any issues with it, compared to my early cobbled togehter Verum, from which I still have a few scars. I may write those up those one day, but I do not like spreading fear. Not useful.

While I can't speak to those other grimoires extensively, I will say that GV manifestations tend to be darker and much more solid. I really don't know why. I suppose it's just the "current," as the Thelemites call it.

Personally, I look at it as jumping into the "GV Server" when you use the grimoire. You are entering into the morphogenetic field of all the magicians, folk practitioners, and Cunning Folk who have worked with the GV across multiple countries and languages over the centuries. Good stuff.

The GV is not the only way, but it's a very solid one. And it's open source. with no High Priestess Jigglypuff lording over you, no Super Adeptus Anus Magicus, and none of that BLARG edge-lord fear.

Oh, and while the GV is very Catholic, it represents a very late medieval, early modern Catholicism which was never as mythically literal as most people make it out to be.

Alternatively, you can totally use the Jake Stratton-Kent PGM-Thelemic rites if you are more pagany-flavored. I have, and they work too. More good stuff. Read Jake's stuff but take it as mythically additive rather than subtrative. There is a new rash of "GV guys" around doing good work fleshing out the tradition.

One last thing. Just know that we had all we really needed 30 years ago - if you had even a smidge of courage - and long before the internet explosion of endless information and "explanations" - which can be a trap. I am not a fan of how every single damn thing, every open question, the freedom to dream, and our very imagination is being locked down into pointless esoteric "facts." And neither are the daimons, I feel. Don't make up historical fakelore (misinformation just makes us all stupid, and flag speculation as such), but after that, just throw yourself into it and be open to what comes.

 

[Divinewhisper07]

I worked . But ,,some spirit,, is very broad question. which one you mean and what exactly you try to accomplish?

GV is not really kind of grimoire where you just pick random spirit and go. It have whole structure and system behind it.
If you already worked through the book then probably you already have some framework in mind. Can discuss specifics if you wa

Thank you for that @HoldAll !

I do consider myself a simple end-user, and really only encourage others to take up the practice just so I have more company. It was a very lonely practice until recently. Just read all the authors and take what you need.

Re: Sharing experiences. Hmmm, These are very sacred things, and an authentic practitioner is less likely to broadcast them on the internet in lurid technicolor. I'm always a bit torn on sharing more since they are specific to myself and my personal journey. As will be yours for you.

But can talk about whether we were effective or not, if our work to make changes in the world worked, so I encourage everyone to conjure them and tell them to bring about real-world effects (sorcery). Then you have a simple truth-test for whether your practice is being effective. Extreme manifestations, like those here and below, are also not required for sorcery. These are for you in other ways.

OK, If you want get a sense of the extreme, downright paranormal theophanic manifestations look like, see this thread.

Author - Jason S. Black’s notes from 'Pacts with The Devil' (1993)

The macro-level topic here might be 'Shifting into a Daimonic Universe.' More below. I'd been meaning to post these excerpts from the early 1990's book Pacts with the Devil (by S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt, Ph. D., New Falcon Press, 1993) as the evocatory bookend to the simple but...

wizardforums.com

----------------

I vouch for Mr. Jason Black here. My experiences mirror his, with some being even more extreme and personally beneficial.

I do not know exactly what triggers it, but I THINK is requires:

1. finding a balance of engaging deeply in the meaning of the work without cramping - by being open to the experience and without trying to over-explain it or lock it down too much.

2. Actually expecting them to show up. For me, "expectation" is a feeling akin to sitting down to watch a movie or concert you've been looking forward t - that distinct sense that you are about to witness something AMAZING! A little trepidation is fine, but avoid outright fear and terror.

Sharing specific details carries credibility issues. People lie and embellish too much, I feel. Back in the 2010s, a group of edgelords sold magic books full of tatoo flash by hyping up their mental visions as full physical manifestations, which only cheapens what should be deeply personal and sacred experiences.

But it's a Catch-22.

Reading about the experiences of others can help trigger your own - and there is an inner game at play here. While mental-evocation methods are probably fine, they also prime everyone's ritual expectations in specific ways, shaping you into a particular mold. Not to be too harsh, but from where I stand, it looks like everyone is being turned into New-Age-channelers-with-demons.

OK, in one of my most extreme occurrences, I was "abducted" by one of my allies, healed of a couple of maladies, and given some weird powers, which ultimately triggered my need to leave one of the biggest and most famous tech companies in the world where I was working. This is NOT typical or even that useful. The after effects here were extreme changes in my "lower" personality for the better. I think is just has to be that time in you persoanl journey.

This stuff also can be hard to process, but it is ultimately they;re meant to make you a bigger person. I don't "do" aliens, but I can thank Gordon White for introducing me to the UAP/UFO contactee community. They share a lot in common with this kind of experience, even if I feel they are interacting with a completely different class of daimon - and yes, the UAPs are daimons, as many in that community have noted recently (but said with some old langage, calling them"demons").

OK, Without giving the specific details here , those which are for me. You will have your own, and they will be in your own perssonal language and cultural expectations so some dgree. I split the difference can call it all "half you"

I mentioned this elsehere, but my GV ally appeared in my game room in Los Angeles. As solid as you or a refigerator. About 7 feel tall, and in the corner taking uip the floot to ceieling. It was in the late afternoon, and athe bright L.A. sun was streaming in. I was not scared, and rather facinated by his appearance. The shapes and colors his head were made of are things I now recognize as being "him," and a sort of call sign or shape language. . When I call him using the GV invocations as a simple cantrip they work as daimonic UI-UX to know it's him. My vision will begin swirling, forming a tunnel made of what his head looked like, there in my room.

I discoverd I can call him this way during an extreme case of food poisoning.

It was at home and was horrible , and it felt like I was being stabbed by shards of glass in my side. I really feared I would need to go to the hospital. After writhing on the floor for some time, steadingly mysrlf enough through the pain to say them clearly, I said the invocations from the GV, which I have memorized. After maybe thee rounds? I did not count - and then my vision clouded over with a swirling tunnel whose walls were made of a membrane that matched the pattern and color of his head that i saw in my game room. . There was no auditory contact, but in a few minutes, I was totally fine.

He is a disease daimon, whom I had originally called to destroy a Dark Triad predator executive that was harassing my wife at another famous game publisher (which he did). In the process I learned that he is also a health daimon. This makes sense. Spirits who are masters of a "domain" control both that domain's positive and negative aspects. Thus, he can blight a person's career, health, or relationship just as easily as he can heal them.

You can probably achieve this type of manifestation using other grimoires, but the GV is a pact-based rite. The pact-based grim are deeply chthonic. I will also add the GV rites inherently provide certain safety protocols. I really have not had any issues with it, compared to my early cobbled togehter Verum, from which I still have a few scars. I may write those up those one day, but I do not like spreading fear. Not useful.

While I can't speak to those other grimoires extensively, I will say that GV manifestations tend to be darker and much more solid. I really don't know why. I suppose it's just the "current," as the Thelemites call it.

Personally, I look at it as jumping into the "GV Server" when you use the grimoire. You are entering into the morphogenetic field of all the magicians, folk practitioners, and Cunning Folk who have worked with the GV across multiple countries and languages over the centuries. Good stuff.

The GV is not the only way, but it's a very solid one. And it's open source. with no High Priestess Jigglypuff lording over you, no Super Adeptus Anus Magicus, and none of that BLARG edge-lord fear.

Oh, and while the GV is very Catholic, it represents a very late medieval, early modern Catholicism which was never as mythically literal as most people make it out to be.

Alternatively, you can totally use the Jake Stratton-Kent PGM-Thelemic rites if you are more pagany-flavored. I have, and they work too. More good stuff. Read Jake's stuff but take it as mythically additive rather than subtrative. There is a new rash of "GV guys" around doing good work fleshing out the tradition.

One last thing. Just know that we had all we really needed 30 years ago - if you had even a smidge of courage - and long before the internet explosion of endless information and "explanations" - which can be a trap. I am not a fan of how every single damn thing, every open question, the freedom to dream, and our very imagination is being locked down into pointless esoteric "facts." And neither are the daimons, I feel. Don't make up historical fakelore (misinformation just makes us all stupid, and flag speculation as such), but after that, just throw yourself into it and be open to what comes.

Hmm interesting like tell me your experience with the specific figure like scrilin mentioned in the GV??? Like some editions has missing seal of the intermediate figure as mentioned in the GV... Btw I did had a experience related to this figure... Preparing parchment as well it's seal sounds like meticulous intense work... I had experienced heaviness as well strange then while evocation i really felt clarity for sure... I didn't understood btw felt presence of this intermediate figure mentioned in the GV as the messenger of higher beings like lucifer... Then I did perform the dismissal of the spirit later few times untill the vibes had gone away.... Later the place I was performing the operation felt normal again as well finally felt everything went normal and calm like before everything was normal again....

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:41 AM

I worked . But ,,some spirit,, is very broad question. which one you mean and what exactly you try to accomplish?

GV is not really kind of grimoire where you just pick random spirit and go. It have whole structure and system behind it.
If you already worked through the book then probably you already have some framework in mind. Can discuss specifics if you wa

Thank you for that @HoldAll !

I do consider myself a simple end-user, and really only encourage others to take up the practice just so I have more company. It was a very lonely practice until recently. Just read all the authors and take what you need.

Re: Sharing experiences. Hmmm, These are very sacred things, and an authentic practitioner is less likely to broadcast them on the internet in lurid technicolor. I'm always a bit torn on sharing more since they are specific to myself and my personal journey. As will be yours for you.

But can talk about whether we were effective or not, if our work to make changes in the world worked, so I encourage everyone to conjure them and tell them to bring about real-world effects (sorcery). Then you have a simple truth-test for whether your practice is being effective. Extreme manifestations, like those here and below, are also not required for sorcery. These are for you in other ways.

OK, If you want get a sense of the extreme, downright paranormal theophanic manifestations look like, see this thread.

Author - Jason S. Black’s notes from 'Pacts with The Devil' (1993)

The macro-level topic here might be 'Shifting into a Daimonic Universe.' More below. I'd been meaning to post these excerpts from the early 1990's book Pacts with the Devil (by S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt, Ph. D., New Falcon Press, 1993) as the evocatory bookend to the simple but...

wizardforums.com

----------------

I vouch for Mr. Jason Black here. My experiences mirror his, with some being even more extreme and personally beneficial.

I do not know exactly what triggers it, but I THINK is requires:

1. finding a balance of engaging deeply in the meaning of the work without cramping - by being open to the experience and without trying to over-explain it or lock it down too much.

2. Actually expecting them to show up. For me, "expectation" is a feeling akin to sitting down to watch a movie or concert you've been looking forward t - that distinct sense that you are about to witness something AMAZING! A little trepidation is fine, but avoid outright fear and terror.

Sharing specific details carries credibility issues. People lie and embellish too much, I feel. Back in the 2010s, a group of edgelords sold magic books full of tatoo flash by hyping up their mental visions as full physical manifestations, which only cheapens what should be deeply personal and sacred experiences.

But it's a Catch-22.

Reading about the experiences of others can help trigger your own - and there is an inner game at play here. While mental-evocation methods are probably fine, they also prime everyone's ritual expectations in specific ways, shaping you into a particular mold. Not to be too harsh, but from where I stand, it looks like everyone is being turned into New-Age-channelers-with-demons.

OK, in one of my most extreme occurrences, I was "abducted" by one of my allies, healed of a couple of maladies, and given some weird powers, which ultimately triggered my need to leave one of the biggest and most famous tech companies in the world where I was working. This is NOT typical or even that useful. The after effects here were extreme changes in my "lower" personality for the better. I think is just has to be that time in you persoanl journey.

This stuff also can be hard to process, but it is ultimately they;re meant to make you a bigger person. I don't "do" aliens, but I can thank Gordon White for introducing me to the UAP/UFO contactee community. They share a lot in common with this kind of experience, even if I feel they are interacting with a completely different class of daimon - and yes, the UAPs are daimons, as many in that community have noted recently (but said with some old langage, calling them"demons").

OK, Without giving the specific details here , those which are for me. You will have your own, and they will be in your own perssonal language and cultural expectations so some dgree. I split the difference can call it all "half you"

I mentioned this elsehere, but my GV ally appeared in my game room in Los Angeles. As solid as you or a refigerator. About 7 feel tall, and in the corner taking uip the floot to ceieling. It was in the late afternoon, and athe bright L.A. sun was streaming in. I was not scared, and rather facinated by his appearance. The shapes and colors his head were made of are things I now recognize as being "him," and a sort of call sign or shape language. . When I call him using the GV invocations as a simple cantrip they work as daimonic UI-UX to know it's him. My vision will begin swirling, forming a tunnel made of what his head looked like, there in my room.

I discoverd I can call him this way during an extreme case of food poisoning.

It was at home and was horrible , and it felt like I was being stabbed by shards of glass in my side. I really feared I would need to go to the hospital. After writhing on the floor for some time, steadingly mysrlf enough through the pain to say them clearly, I said the invocations from the GV, which I have memorized. After maybe thee rounds? I did not count - and then my vision clouded over with a swirling tunnel whose walls were made of a membrane that matched the pattern and color of his head that i saw in my game room. . There was no auditory contact, but in a few minutes, I was totally fine.

He is a disease daimon, whom I had originally called to destroy a Dark Triad predator executive that was harassing my wife at another famous game publisher (which he did). In the process I learned that he is also a health daimon. This makes sense. Spirits who are masters of a "domain" control both that domain's positive and negative aspects. Thus, he can blight a person's career, health, or relationship just as easily as he can heal them.

You can probably achieve this type of manifestation using other grimoires, but the GV is a pact-based rite. The pact-based grim are deeply chthonic. I will also add the GV rites inherently provide certain safety protocols. I really have not had any issues with it, compared to my early cobbled togehter Verum, from which I still have a few scars. I may write those up those one day, but I do not like spreading fear. Not useful.

While I can't speak to those other grimoires extensively, I will say that GV manifestations tend to be darker and much more solid. I really don't know why. I suppose it's just the "current," as the Thelemites call it.

Personally, I look at it as jumping into the "GV Server" when you use the grimoire. You are entering into the morphogenetic field of all the magicians, folk practitioners, and Cunning Folk who have worked with the GV across multiple countries and languages over the centuries. Good stuff.

The GV is not the only way, but it's a very solid one. And it's open source. with no High Priestess Jigglypuff lording over you, no Super Adeptus Anus Magicus, and none of that BLARG edge-lord fear.

Oh, and while the GV is very Catholic, it represents a very late medieval, early modern Catholicism which was never as mythically literal as most people make it out to be.

Alternatively, you can totally use the Jake Stratton-Kent PGM-Thelemic rites if you are more pagany-flavored. I have, and they work too. More good stuff. Read Jake's stuff but take it as mythically additive rather than subtrative. There is a new rash of "GV guys" around doing good work fleshing out the tradition.

One last thing. Just know that we had all we really needed 30 years ago - if you had even a smidge of courage - and long before the internet explosion of endless information and "explanations" - which can be a trap. I am not a fan of how every single damn thing, every open question, the freedom to dream, and our very imagination is being locked down into pointless esoteric "facts." And neither are the daimons, I feel. Don't make up historical fakelore (misinformation just makes us all stupid, and flag speculation as such), but after that, just throw yourself into it and be open to what comes.

Hmm interesting like tell me your experience with the specific figure like scrilin mentioned in the GV??? Like some editions has missing seal of the intermediate figure as mentioned in the GV... Btw I did had a experience related to this figure... Preparing parchment as well it's seal sounds like meticulous intense work... I had experienced heaviness as well strange then while evocation i really felt clarity for sure... I didn't understood btw felt presence of this intermediate figure mentioned in the GV as the messenger of higher beings like lucifer... Then I did perform the dismissal of the spirit later few times untill the vibes had gone away.... Later the place I was performing the operation felt normal again as well finally felt everything went normal and calm like before everything was normal again

Thank you for that @HoldAll !

I do consider myself a simple end-user, and really only encourage others to take up the practice just so I have more company. It was a very lonely practice until recently. Just read all the authors and take what you need.

Re: Sharing experiences. Hmmm, These are very sacred things, and an authentic practitioner is less likely to broadcast them on the internet in lurid technicolor. I'm always a bit torn on sharing more since they are specific to myself and my personal journey. As will be yours for you.

But can talk about whether we were effective or not, if our work to make changes in the world worked, so I encourage everyone to conjure them and tell them to bring about real-world effects (sorcery). Then you have a simple truth-test for whether your practice is being effective. Extreme manifestations, like those here and below, are also not required for sorcery. These are for you in other ways.

OK, If you want get a sense of the extreme, downright paranormal theophanic manifestations look like, see this thread.

Author - Jason S. Black’s notes from 'Pacts with The Devil' (1993)

The macro-level topic here might be 'Shifting into a Daimonic Universe.' More below. I'd been meaning to post these excerpts from the early 1990's book Pacts with the Devil (by S. Jason Black & Christopher S. Hyatt, Ph. D., New Falcon Press, 1993) as the evocatory bookend to the simple but...

wizardforums.com

----------------

I vouch for Mr. Jason Black here. My experiences mirror his, with some being even more extreme and personally beneficial.

I do not know exactly what triggers it, but I THINK is requires:

1. finding a balance of engaging deeply in the meaning of the work without cramping - by being open to the experience and without trying to over-explain it or lock it down too much.

2. Actually expecting them to show up. For me, "expectation" is a feeling akin to sitting down to watch a movie or concert you've been looking forward t - that distinct sense that you are about to witness something AMAZING! A little trepidation is fine, but avoid outright fear and terror.

Sharing specific details carries credibility issues. People lie and embellish too much, I feel. Back in the 2010s, a group of edgelords sold magic books full of tatoo flash by hyping up their mental visions as full physical manifestations, which only cheapens what should be deeply personal and sacred experiences.

But it's a Catch-22.

Reading about the experiences of others can help trigger your own - and there is an inner game at play here. While mental-evocation methods are probably fine, they also prime everyone's ritual expectations in specific ways, shaping you into a particular mold. Not to be too harsh, but from where I stand, it looks like everyone is being turned into New-Age-channelers-with-demons.

OK, in one of my most extreme occurrences, I was "abducted" by one of my allies, healed of a couple of maladies, and given some weird powers, which ultimately triggered my need to leave one of the biggest and most famous tech companies in the world where I was working. This is NOT typical or even that useful. The after effects here were extreme changes in my "lower" personality for the better. I think is just has to be that time in you persoanl journey.

This stuff also can be hard to process, but it is ultimately they;re meant to make you a bigger person. I don't "do" aliens, but I can thank Gordon White for introducing me to the UAP/UFO contactee community. They share a lot in common with this kind of experience, even if I feel they are interacting with a completely different class of daimon - and yes, the UAPs are daimons, as many in that community have noted recently (but said with some old langage, calling them"demons").

OK, Without giving the specific details here , those which are for me. You will have your own, and they will be in your own perssonal language and cultural expectations so some dgree. I split the difference can call it all "half you"

I mentioned this elsehere, but my GV ally appeared in my game room in Los Angeles. As solid as you or a refigerator. About 7 feel tall, and in the corner taking uip the floot to ceieling. It was in the late afternoon, and athe bright L.A. sun was streaming in. I was not scared, and rather facinated by his appearance. The shapes and colors his head were made of are things I now recognize as being "him," and a sort of call sign or shape language. . When I call him using the GV invocations as a simple cantrip they work as daimonic UI-UX to know it's him. My vision will begin swirling, forming a tunnel made of what his head looked like, there in my room.

I discoverd I can call him this way during an extreme case of food poisoning.

It was at home and was horrible , and it felt like I was being stabbed by shards of glass in my side. I really feared I would need to go to the hospital. After writhing on the floor for some time, steadingly mysrlf enough through the pain to say them clearly, I said the invocations from the GV, which I have memorized. After maybe thee rounds? I did not count - and then my vision clouded over with a swirling tunnel whose walls were made of a membrane that matched the pattern and color of his head that i saw in my game room. . There was no auditory contact, but in a few minutes, I was totally fine.

He is a disease daimon, whom I had originally called to destroy a Dark Triad predator executive that was harassing my wife at another famous game publisher (which he did). In the process I learned that he is also a health daimon. This makes sense. Spirits who are masters of a "domain" control both that domain's positive and negative aspects. Thus, he can blight a person's career, health, or relationship just as easily as he can heal them.

You can probably achieve this type of manifestation using other grimoires, but the GV is a pact-based rite. The pact-based grim are deeply chthonic. I will also add the GV rites inherently provide certain safety protocols. I really have not had any issues with it, compared to my early cobbled togehter Verum, from which I still have a few scars. I may write those up those one day, but I do not like spreading fear. Not useful.

While I can't speak to those other grimoires extensively, I will say that GV manifestations tend to be darker and much more solid. I really don't know why. I suppose it's just the "current," as the Thelemites call it.

Personally, I look at it as jumping into the "GV Server" when you use the grimoire. You are entering into the morphogenetic field of all the magicians, folk practitioners, and Cunning Folk who have worked with the GV across multiple countries and languages over the centuries. Good stuff.

The GV is not the only way, but it's a very solid one. And it's open source. with no High Priestess Jigglypuff lording over you, no Super Adeptus Anus Magicus, and none of that BLARG edge-lord fear.

Oh, and while the GV is very Catholic, it represents a very late medieval, early modern Catholicism which was never as mythically literal as most people make it out to be.

Alternatively, you can totally use the Jake Stratton-Kent PGM-Thelemic rites if you are more pagany-flavored. I have, and they work too. More good stuff. Read Jake's stuff but take it as mythically additive rather than subtrative. There is a new rash of "GV guys" around doing good work fleshing out the tradition.

One last thing. Just know that we had all we really needed 30 years ago - if you had even a smidge of courage - and long before the internet explosion of endless information and "explanations" - which can be a trap. I am not a fan of how every single damn thing, every open question, the freedom to dream, and our very imagination is being locked down into pointless esoteric "facts." And neither are the daimons, I feel. Don't make up historical fakelore (misinformation just makes us all stupid, and flag speculation as such), but after that, just throw yourself into it and be open to what comes.

Do Tell me the logic behind the mentioned heliotrope or bloodstone in the grimore... Wht could necessity of having a bloodstone during a operation or so... Does it has any kinda control or power to attract such figures like beelzebub or astraoth or so...

 

[MorganBlack]

It’s meticulous but not all that hard.

OK, this will probably sound VERY pretentious, so I apologize ahead of time. I don’t want to reduce Scirlin to a GV waiter or busboy.

The process IS the ritual. You're taking a mythic journey, and I would not recommend skimping on it. The daimons respect sincerity, and the GV is very specific about making the whole kit so they know and who their friends are.

I will say the full ritual is not necessary for useful magical results (what I prefer to call 'sorcery'), but you will be missing out on the deep mysteries that nobody can really talk about and you can only discover for yourself.

So, in general, Scirlin is a gatekeeper who is sort of the face for the GV, a crossroads spirit who opens up the Verum system. We appeal to him for authority, and if you form a deep relationship with him, he can become a teaching spirit. We also appeal to the Three Chiefs for what in New World sorcery is called a " license" - basally, a mark or your permission slip to enter the Underworld without being mauled. They are all usually not conjured, but appealed to. (No to set any hard rules here.)

You can modify the system to bypass him and make "off-brand" Verum, and some do, but I can tell that many famous magical authors are not getting very interesting manifestations. Maybe that is them, and maybe it is them trying to find too many shortcuts. Dunno.

OK, this borders on very personal ( and super pretentious-sounding)

While there is a figure/intelligence and force we call Scirlin, he is pretty complex and MAY be much bigger than his office in the GV. He MIGHT be a lower manifestation of Duke Syrach, the Angel of the Abyss Uriel, and similar forces-become-persons.

But the bigger point here is not to mythically cyber-stalk them, or do GV perfectly by treating it like an intellectual puzzle - but rather it's to engage with it fully. Engaging with it sincerely is the point, not hitting all the marks while dragging your feet the entire time. It's supposed to be fun. Have fun, and a few scares. Take the haunted ride at a Daimonic Circus of the Sublunar world.

I know this sounds like hand-waving. In the end, the most important thing is just to do it and see what happens. ALL of this mythic language is finding a way to describe the living experience of you engaging with the Daimonic Reality.

Scirlin, and all the daimons, and how they appear and what they do, is dependent on the fact that they are the living embodiment of your relationship with three things: the Infinite/the Numinous, Matter (in all its beauty, meaning, and terror), and where you specifically sit in the timeline of your personal journey in life. ALL of this IS the thing we call a daimon.

Scirlin is YOUR relationship with the GV. Yes he is a person too, but all the names are also Offices.

I hope that is not too high-minded and helps some . Know that none of this is required for magic (as basic sorcery), but the bigger mysteries are called "Mysteries" for this reason. You will discover them as you engage with the system, which is bigger than it appears in the grimoire itself, which is just a key - Clavicula - to open up the bigger experience I am hinting at above.

 

[Divinewhisper07]

It’s meticulous but not all that hard.

OK, this will probably sound VERY pretentious, so I apologize ahead of time. I don’t want to reduce Scirlin to a GV waiter or busboy.

The process IS the ritual. You're taking a mythic journey, and I would not recommend skimping on it. The daimons respect sincerity, and the GV is very specific about making the whole kit so they know and who their friends are.

I will say the full ritual is not necessary for useful magical results (what I prefer to call 'sorcery'), but you will be missing out on the deep mysteries that nobody can really talk about and you can only discover for yourself.

So, in general, Scirlin is a gatekeeper who is sort of the face for the GV, a crossroads spirit who opens up the Verum system. We appeal to him for authority, and if you form a deep relationship with him, he can become a teaching spirit. We also appeal to the Three Chiefs for what in New World sorcery is called a " license" - basally, a mark or your permission slip to enter the Underworld without being mauled. They are all usually not conjured, but appealed to. (No to set any hard rules here.)

You can modify the system to bypass him and make "off-brand" Verum, and some do, but I can tell that many famous magical authors are not getting very interesting manifestations. Maybe that is them, and maybe it is them trying to find too many shortcuts. Dunno.

OK, this borders on very personal ( and super pretentious-sounding)

While there is a figure/intelligence and force we call Scirlin, he is pretty complex and MAY be much bigger than his office in the GV. He MIGHT be a lower manifestation of Duke Syrach, the Angel of the Abyss Uriel, and similar forces-become-persons.

But the bigger point here is not to mythically cyber-stalk them, or do GV perfectly by treating it like an intellectual puzzle - but rather it's to engage with it fully. Engaging with it sincerely is the point, not hitting all the marks while dragging your feet the entire time. It's supposed to be fun. Have fun, and a few scares. Take the haunted ride at a Daimonic Circus of the Sublunar world.

I know this sounds like hand-waving. In the end, the most important thing is just to do it and see what happens. ALL of this mythic language is finding a way to describe the living experience of you engaging with the Daimonic Reality.

Scirlin, and all the daimons, and how they appear and what they do, is dependent on the fact that they are the living embodiment of your relationship with three things: the Infinite/the Numinous, Matter (in all its beauty, meaning, and terror), and where you specifically sit in the timeline of your personal journey in life. ALL of this IS the thing we call a daimon.

Scirlin is YOUR relationship with the GV. Yes he is a person too, but all the names are also Offices.

I hope that is not too high-minded and helps some . Know that none of this is required for magic (as basic sorcery), but the bigger mysteries are called "Mysteries" for this reason. You will discover them as you engage with the system, which is bigger than it appears in the grimoire itself, which is just a key - Clavicula - to open up the bigger experience I am hinting at above.

Guland plays minor role in the GV so i think you know him very well then... If I'm not wrong...

 

[MorganBlack]

so i think you know him very well then... If I'm not wrong...

Yep yep! You nailed it. He is one of my GV allies, and I really don't have that many.

In my view, each relationship itself is a deep mythic journey. I am not sure I could integrate more of them!

I don't like sharing on the internet specific details of what he looks like and does, except to say he is very Lovecraftian-looking. While I have my own company now, I worked in video games as a concept artist and art director for many years, and I think he simply rummaged around in my mind/soul for things to wear that spoke to me. It's kind of an in-joke.

I've been worried for many years that in sharing too many specifics that it would turn the GV into another Lesser Key and encourage the idea of collecting them like they're 72 Pokemon.

I was also worried sharing over-personal imagery would spawn a bunch of egregores so future magicians would have to get past to make deep contact with the "GV Current."

But I am less worried about that now.

One well-known magician online, Rufus Opus, has worked with Bune since 2006, long before the Demonolators showed up in large numbers. He mentioned somewhere Bune comes through even stronger now.

Whatever Bune is, he appears to be sucking up these alternate selves, their collective energy and attention, or whatever, and using them to be even more Bune-y. RO has not made any mention of Bune acting differently, so I take that as supporting the idea that this is all a collaboration rather than a competition for who gets astral mind-share - like it's a limited resource in a capitalistic attention economy.

Speaking of not having many allies, I'm not sure how it would even be possible from a time perspective, let alone a mythic journey.

While anecdotal, the excellent Brother Moloch on his Yahoo forums many years ago mentioned a very powerful magician he knew who worked with only one spirit. An undine. The depth of the relationship he had with the intelligences and forces behind that undine was so profound she could do most things.

And I think that this is a good lesson to keep in mind. In a sense, she became his Personal Daimon. I know everyone wants to keep these as separate categories, but again, trying to force fluid, deeply personal spiritual relationships into sterile, hyper-categorized filing cabinets, I feel, is both narrow-minded, being over-prescriptive, and mechanically reductive or deterministic.

From personal experience engaging with them, you "go" somewhere. Into "The Story" of our Imagined reality we are in now, in my view. The benefit of the GV is that it is part of The Story that has been written by many, many people over a long time, piggybacking on even older stories. And it's highly flexible. Daimons are always "half you" (as I like to say) and they speak to where you are sitting now. The nature of our relationships and their manifestations will also change as you change and grow.

I usually do not share too much - people need more freedom to explore - but for what deep Story immersion might look like:

Now, I am aware are all this can be seen just as "UPG visions", but even if that is true, they are very useful. (UPG is kind of the point, but there are layers of immersion)

When you are "there" you can do amazing things, like overnight magic. Things I can't do on my own very well - okay, sometimes, as I am still learning and tweaking Neville Goddard-ian methods. The usual, slower conjure methods work just fine too, if you're not in a rush.

One day a few years ago I was saying my morning prayers and invocations when I was swept "up" into one of the "places." . This happens frequently enough I really don't place much importance and meaning on it, except to pay attention and make a note along my mythic journey. I usually don't dwell on these much and take it as the visionary part of the practice (FYI this is not like the vastly more extreme "being abducted," but more like being in a dream)

That morning I was feeling very irritated with some meddling in-laws. So in the midst of the vision very I casually raised my physical hand, palm up, and waved it in circular patterns in their direction, feeling it to be a kind of shield, and stating the intent for them to be distracted and to leave me alone in peace. The next day, while they were away on vacation, a waterline broke and flooded their house, destroying all their wooden floors. This gave me many, many months of peace as they were occupied with repairs, taking out the flooring and having it all replaced.

So once you have allies and are engaged on the "Story level" of reality, you have to be careful. As we say in Vodou, "You never know who's listening." Magicians are terribly dangerous, which is why we historially y we wre so marginalized. We ARE things of myth and legend, and the fear of magic is not as so unfounded as the New Age pagans like to get offended over.

Anyway, can I just wave my hand and make things happen anytime I want? Nope. It is this getting "caught up" that I feel is what's important. The GV current helps here. There may be other "current" on equal footing, but I really have no idea. I try to be ecumenical. Even them there is still a lot of imsersion for the magican to enage with.