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[Help] Having trouble with lust in creating my Inner Guardian

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Judas_aurelius

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Not sure if anybody has experience with this, not to doubt people do. Anyway, arbitrary but, I've been doing a lot of meditation and work in creating the Inner Ruler described in Rudolf Steiner's Knowledge of Higher Worlds. It's been going great, with lots of progress. The only main issue is regarding my Lust, which I can't seem to place or fit in my mind. It exists in a way outside of what I concieve should be judged by my Inner Ruler. Not to say it's exempt from being deemed, I just can't really seem to place it.

Also, moreso maybe figuring out what to do with things like lust, or desire when working in the Occult. I've considered looking for a patron, but from my readings I don't think I'm equipped to at this moment. Any help would be appreciated.

 

HoldAll

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I think your intuition is correct. Some systems (as well as most religions) just don't know how to deal with sexuality properly, and Steiner's Inner Ruler was probably not conceived of as being able to deal with it either. I get the same feeling when reading Dion Fortune - she had studied psychology and psychoanalysis, and after Freud, there was no way of putting the sex genie into the bottle again. Accordingly, she very well knew that repression was out but the subject probably made her uncomfortable. In Steiner's day, people still saw sexuality as an anarchic force with a disruptive potential for society which didn't seem to fit into sophisticated spiritual systems. Spirituality and sex simply didn't go together back then, and excluding it from spiritual systems made perfect sense for the time - as it does now when working with them.

To my mind, sexual desire can never be just a kind of disembodied 'energy' to be exploited for any old purpose. It's lust for a specific person or for the entire gamut of sexual experiences, and that includes touch, smell, and taste as well, not simply orgasmic release. The notion of trying to 'integrate' it is problematical as well because it's such an integral part of us already.

Maybe it's not such a bad thing that various spiritual systems don't address sexuality at all. Buddhism, for example, considers all types of craving for sensual delights as an expression of greed (and thus unwholesome) but doesn't single out sexual urges specifically. Here, all lust and desire originate from the mind rather than the body. It's not our sex organs that get us into trouble, it's our imagination, hangups, and secret yearnings, and these are all potential starting points for meaningful self-development work - within modern systems, that is.
 
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Not sure if anybody has experience with this, not to doubt people do. Anyway, arbitrary but, I've been doing a lot of meditation and work in creating the Inner Ruler described in Rudolf Steiner's Knowledge of Higher Worlds. It's been going great, with lots of progress. The only main issue is regarding my Lust, which I can't seem to place or fit in my mind. It exists in a way outside of what I concieve should be judged by my Inner Ruler. Not to say it's exempt from being deemed, I just can't really seem to place it.
That's because his exercises are only preliminary. I'd just call them ways of disciplining yourself, not transforming in a profound way.

Also, moreso maybe figuring out what to do with things like lust, or desire when working in the Occult.

Lust is an energy, and all energies can be manipulated. Ceaseless experimentation is the way to go. Personally I've done seminal retention, celibacy, indulgence, meditative sex, extensive energywork, and more.
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Buddhism, for example, considers all types of craving for sensual delights as an expression of greed (and thus unwholesome) but doesn't single out sexual urges specifically. Here, all lust and desire originate from the mind rather than the body. It's not our sex organs that get us into trouble, it's our imagination, hangups, and secret yearnings, and these are all potential starting points for meaningful self-development work - within modern systems, that is.
It may be worth pointing out that there are (not highly publicized) sexual practices in some schools of Buddhism. It's not just the Hindu Tantrics who use physical sex.
 
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Morell

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I assume you speak about sexuality... and @HoldAll says it right. Most systems do not deal with sexuality right.
I think that this developed a lot by Christian monks... in fact, Buddhists send missionaries into roman empire to spread Buddhism, they probably made few Buddhist temples that were later replaced by Christians, though their tradition of study, prayer and such remained. In Buddhists temples back then the monks were forbidden sex with girls, so they simply took boys, the places were filled with knowledge of homo sex. Christians later tried to suppress that one too. And we all know that this doesn't really work.

Love this quote: if you won't shit naturaly, the shit will come out sideways and it won't be pretty.

Sexual energy simply is, our body generates it, because it is evolved for mating and breeding. The body won't obey you in stopping to produce it. But this energy, this desire (I prefer term desire to lust) can be directed. Besides, desire is not only for sex, but also for beauty and other stuff. Find things to desire that are acceptable for you, also for things that are useful to you. We need to control our body desires in a way that they don't harm anyone, but we need to also blow up that steam from time to time. To put proper time, place and target for it is how you make it work... I think.
 

AbammonTheGreat

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I have a dual system for "goddess" appropriate work. Divine Feminine and Worldly Feminine. Both are important. Divine Feminine would be your Isis, Mary/Sacred Virgin, Luna, etc etc you get the picture. But Worldly Feminine is going to be specifically the occult and spiritual forces that relate to human womanhood. Mars and raw masculine ambition fall into the Worldly Masculine and have a part in sexuality and lust in men but this is very much an unchecked dominant and thoroughly masculine type of lust. When we are dealing with lust in a male towards women this is desire and classically would fall in the realm of Venus, Aphrodite, Astarte adjacent types of feminine god-forms.

Now the appropriate and developed expression of this type of lustful desire towards the feminine and in some cases the masculine but coming from this feminine expression of lust is working with the worldly feminine aspect of the self. And while Jungian camps might deem this the Anima, the Anima is more the soul. The best way for an occultist or magician to work with and specifically bring this lust into its rightful order is direct engagement in the forces of the Worldly Feminine. Venus/Aphrodite devotional. This is going to be an initiatory proceeding. The rectification of lust is lust as passionate intimacy with a partner. The ill-dignified lust is so incredibly ingrained in the modern male mind that most men are unconscious of it and view it as normal. During this process you should be finding this "Worldly Feminine Goddess" in every single woman in your life. It is the goddess within the human woman. And the human woman as a hylemorphe of the goddess. Through this process you recognize the goddess within yourself and how all people are hylemorphic expressions of her. Now something begins happening in this process if you are performing it correctly. You begin to view masturbation, porn, and the sexualization of women with clear eyes. In most men, even those that do not have lust issues, fetishes, or consider themselves misogynists, this is absolutely latent because of the normalization in society of women's bodies as commodities. It is in every single piece of media we consume in our culture, and it damages our relationship with all women, when our relationships with external women are broken, the relationship with our feminine selves is broken. even those we don't have sexual proclivities towards. This is the subtle objectification of women and women's bodies that damages the male capacity to have close meaningful relationships with our mothers, sisters, coworkers, and partners. This is not a unique problem to porn addicts and misogynist incels, most modern men have this influence subconsciously and their lust gets misplaced and ill-dignified.

If you are performing this correctly you will notice yourself satisfied with your intimate relationships, no longer checking out women on the street or at work, your desire to masturbate and watch porn will diminish significantly most likely to 0, and you will not be wanton of women. Your relationships with all women will improve drastically, and your lust will be dignified in a way that may increase your appetite for sex but intimate and passionate relations with your partner or a partner. You will no longer be tortured by lust and instead experience lust and desire in a way that does not feel degrading to you or the other person.

The whole point of this work is finding the goddess within you, through that recognizing the goddess as expressed in all human women, reconciling your lust as healthy, and through this process realizing how society has trained you to objectify women. This is why lust gets out of control, feels degrading, or develops into unrealistic fantasies. It is your soul telling you something is wrong, you have been neurologically programmed to treat sex and other people's bodies as operative dopamine procedures.

The point of your work is not to toss out the full spectrum of experience, you are supposed to exalt these things by finding the divinity in it. Then integrate that into your inner ruler. There is a divine desire and lust, and it is a direct gift from God.
 

Judas_aurelius

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Are you certain it's lust? What if it's an aversion? Both are potent forms of arousal. Each is often confused for the other.
To answer without the Wikipedia article. I don’t think it’s aversion. I want to embrace this energy, to the point where I feel a pull towards patrons of similar elements.

More so, within my inner guardian which I want to deem thoughts, feelings, emotions that enter me. I’m just unsure how to deem desire/lust. But after reading what the others had to say (which I have procrastinated my reply) I think I’ve come to view it a bit differently. What HoldAll said about sexuality fitting into that framework definitely makes sense.
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The lady doth protest too much, methinks

Also you linked to nothing, sorry…
 
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More so, within my inner guardian which I want to deem thoughts, feelings, emotions that enter me. I’m just unsure how to deem desire/lust. But after reading what the others had to say (which I have procrastinated my reply)
What do you mean by deem?

The reason I say experimentation in a wide array of modalities is key is that otherwise you're just taking one person's say=so how to view and more importantly interact with sex.

Rather than create an inner judgment which will be biologically and culturally conditioned and reflect moral prejudices (deem?), much more effective is to establish your center and be awake with your inner I. And then approach sexuality energetically and see in its various forms, trace its results within your person. As I said, anything else is just adopting another person's views and very likely their limitations.

Additionally, what might be appropriate for one stage of your development might be detrimental in another. Particularly this can be the case for more celibate approaches. Only the individual can assess such things for themselves.
 

Judas_aurelius

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What do you mean by deem?

Deem or Judge in my mind in regards to the Inner Guardian is passing the thought over the guardian. If I or I guess the Guardian "Deems" it fit to enter me, then I let it through. Sometimes the thoughts are something I need to sit and ponder over.

In regard to desire in that sense, thoughts of it or more often just feelings don't really fit. "Morally" or placing myself in the role of Guardian I just don't seem to be able to understand where they go. They aren't thoughts I find reprehensible, It's not out of hand or something I have qualms with, but they are unlike most.

I totally agree with you and over my meditations and waking hours these past few days I've been thinking about the comments you guys made. Steiner's framework is only one of many. Although I haven't looked into the history yet, HoldAll says that Sexuality and Spirituality were not too encroached upon. Also, looking at the work itself and going through the initial stages. (Unless I missed it) Desire, or in my case moreso Lust, is not talked about. Although I have not read past the point I am in training to complete.

My thoughts are pretty in line with what you said actually now. I can only deem this myself through thoughtful experimentation with the thoughts, energies and feelings I receive from Lust. If I were to just ignore it, choose complete celibacy, or one of the many options of trying to Jam this into Steiner's framework at my stage, like you said I'd probably just hurt myself in a capacity.
 
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