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Hexagram Rituals .. Questions for those more proficient with them.

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Questions for the Adepts and above.
I've a few questions on the Hexagram Rituals.

"Invoke Often" is a phrase used in the Golden Dawn, with a few meanings. One, the Spirit Invoking LRP as opposed to the LBRP, Two, general personal or classic invocations, or, Three, the Invoking Hexagram Ritual.

Here is the issue with the Saturn Invoking vs Banishing. It is stated that Banishing Saturn LRH reduces premature aging, 8ncreases health and vitality etc. Yet, there is good reason to invoke .. to restore the administration of the planets in their normal order and function, baneful magic, and general Earth instruction. So to invoke or banish Saturn?

Third, I started on a Saturday of invoking the planet of the day. Felt fine Saturday and Sunday, but Monday got loopy, Tuesday got fearful, and by Wednesday lost my job. So, is this something I should reignite by the fact that I'm not currently working and have shelter?

Thanks in advance.
 

pixel_fortune

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So there's two schools of thought on this, both held by experienced, knowledgeable people who are worth listening to, but completely disagree. So there's probably no one right answer.

I won't give my own opinion because I'm not an adept, but I can give you competing arguments between adepts, so you can see the logic of both and decide which makes the most sense with your paradigm

Nick Farrell: GD, pro Saturn-banishing
When you perform a magical act, you are creating a change in the status quo and challenging the natural Saturnian force. Some of these limitations will exist in the magician, others from society and on a broader scale the natural flow of the universe. By rendering the space antagonistic to Saturnian inertia you are giving your magic a chance.

But it is important to realise that with the lesser banishing ritual of the hexagram you are creating chaos which allows the universe to be reassembled in the image that the magician wishes. For some types of magic a lesser banishing ritual of the hexagram beforehand would not be a good idea. If you are trying to use magic to take control of an already chaotic situation, it would be unwise to banish Saturn because you are making matters worse.

There is an additional point which applies more when you have made magic your life. That is that continual attempts to change the universe, or the move to do something significant creates a backlash from those Saturn forces which seek to keep things the same.
[...]
Performing a daily lesser banishing ritual of the hexagram would help prevent this backlash before it becomes too crippling, you will always face this particular issue (it is part of the natural way the universe works), but at least it will not harm you too much.
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- it's also in Helios Unbound

Scott Stenwick: Thelemite, advocates for LBRP+LIRH to create "operant field" -
"As far as I can tell from my entire history of working magick, the "Saturn backlash" discussed in Nick's article is not a real thing. I've never experienced it myself, so I don't see a need to banish it. I do magick all the time, and I use it to get an edge in as many situations as I possibly can. You would think if it was real I would have run into it by now.

I am equally convinced that the LRH is not "really" related to Saturn. The LRH is elemental, not planetary.

It's a general ritual for banishing and invoking macrocosmic elemental forces, complementing the microcosmic elemental forces called on the form of the archangels in the LRP.

Saturn rules limitations and the like, so you could maybe loosely associate it that way, but that's not where I think the power of the LBRH comes from. It comes from banishing all four elements in a macrocosmic arrangement. The elements, planets, and zodiac are three separate systems that operate at different "levels" or "scales" of reality and are complete in and of themselves. So all four elements includes everything. You're banishing everything, not a particular planet. Banishing Saturn would technically only banish forces and/or qualities specific to Saturn, and anyway you would use the GRH-Saturn for that in the Thelemic system, not the LRH.
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And then
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"From a Hermetic perspective the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram represents the psychological realm or microcosm and the Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram represents the physical realm or macrocosm. Together the rituals set up a space in which the relationship between microcosm and macrocosm is defined that I call a field.


Banishing Field (LBRP/LBRH): This is how most magicians begin their rituals when working with the Golden Dawn forms. It is, in effect, the "full shutdown" - it clears mental and spiritual forms from both the interior and exterior worlds. In can be used to completely cleanse a temple, banish spirits permanently, or neutralize a magical effect that is targeting the magician. What it also does, though, is shut down any ongoing spells that the magician has running unless they are bound to talismans or some anchor other than the magician's consciousness. If you are casting a spell that you want to work over the next week, don't end the ritual with this combination under any set of circumstances unless you're convinced you made a mistake and want to stop the spell. The effect that you just set in motion will be negated when the field goes up.

The operant field (LBRP/LIRH) clears the interior world and then merges it the with the exterior world, setting up a space in which thought can more easily become material reality. All of the energy of a spell cast within this field is targeted on the macrocosm so magick done this way influences the outside world better.

----
Again I'm not giving an opinion - I use my own weirdo triangular prism rite for invoking macrocosmic energy - I just put Nick Farrell's first because Scott responds directly to it
 
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Interesting. Thank you.
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It seems then that Christopher would be wise, Saturn to be invoked on Saturdays only, banished the rest of the time while doing invoking elements via the LRP, or LIRP as some might term it, while banishing Saturn via the LRH the rest of the week.
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The operant field bit is interesting as well.
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So due to my hexagram post questions, I'm considering doing the planet of the day on point with the exception of Saturn on Saturdays, banishing Saturn first, invoking the planet of the day, and then Invoking the Four Powers of Earth LRP. Then a Middle Pillar to draw in the energy.
Normally the bull Kerubic is drawn in the LIRP, but what about Capricorn instead, as it's nearly the transit from Sol in Sagittarius (Thursday, Jupiter ruler) to Sol in Capricorn. Only problem I see besides working outside the lines is Saturn rules Capricorn.
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However, I'm probably wrong, and overthinking it at that.
So ... Do Zelator Formula as usual, and if not Saturday, banish Saturn LRH ,and invoking planet of the day LRH, then continue with Zelator Formula to completion. If Saturday, then invoke Saturn and do remainder of Zelator Formula.
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An additional question, besides speed and condensing the Sol Hexagram down to one, what should one use the unicursal hexagram vs the traditional form?
 
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stratamaster78

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@pixel_fortune beat me to the punch on this one.

Though just from my own opinion I will go ahead and say that Scott Stenwick is 100% right on this.
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@Diluculo_DelFuego

I was going to try and give you a thorough answer on the Hexagram rituals but I swamped in work today.

But my view is exactly like Scott's

I would recommend you checking out his blog as he covers all the ceremonial rituals VERY well as well as showing you a course on how to initiate yourself through the Elements, Planets, and Zodiac.

He also teaches practical low magick with the Elements, Planets, and Zodiac.

Here is a link to his Magical Instruction page an I recommend you reading his main posts on the Hexagram rituals as well as the comment sections of those posts where he elaborates further....

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I think you will get your answers there.
 
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@pixel_fortune beat me to the punch on this one.

Though just from my own opinion I will go ahead and say that Scott Stenwick is 100% right on this.
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@Diluculo_DelFuego

I was going to try and give you a thorough answer on the Hexagram rituals but I swamped in work today.

But my view is exactly like Scott's
I agree, I dont see a problem with my idea of invoking the planet of the day, or invoking Saturn every day in the Earth grade; however there were chaotic incidents that occurred while invoking Saturn every day of my Zelator grade at first, rather than following instructions per Thomas L Christopher, who advises banishing particularly to let the elementals come forth via the Invoking Four Powers of Earth ritual.
I would recommend you checking out his blog as he covers all the ceremonial rituals VERY well as well as showing you a course on how to initiate yourself through the Elements, Planets, and Zodiac.

He also teaches practical low magick with the Elements, Planets, and Zodiac.

Here is a link to his Magical Instruction page an I recommend you reading his main posts on the Hexagram rituals as well as the comment sections of those posts where he elaborates further....

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I think you will get your answers there.
Thanks, will check it out!
 

pixel_fortune

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More from Scott Stenwick, this clarified his position a bit better for me

"You might think that if you were working with Saturn, and Saturn rules "works of malediction and death," that the way to eliminate delays, obstacles, negative influence, and the like is to do Saturn banishings. I believed this myself twenty years ago until I developed a better understanding of planetary magick. In fact, the best way to deal with anything in the sphere of Saturn is to do a Saturn invocation because Saturn governs the process by which such things arise. All magical aspects have a positive and a negative side - they can either increase or decrease whatever is in their sphere of influence.

Another example - Jupiter is generally considered a benefic and rules "political and other ascendancy." But Jupiter invocations can also be used to, for example, "curse" a politician you don't like such that they lose an election. Jupiter rules "political ascendancy" and that means it can bestow such ascendancy or take it away."

(He is responding here to Lyam Thomas Christopher's claim that regularly Saturn-banishing increases your longevity, which seems a lot more dubious than Farrell's position, but it's broadly relevant)
 
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Nice. I will read the articles :)

Hopefully using "The Big Voice" will be just as effective as the spoken word, since the gestures and visualization will accompany the focused mind on the words spoken in the mind.
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Yeah, love the operant field article, will read and consider Farrell's page tomorrow. Thanks again!!
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Used the LBRP and LBRP in the morning. It was slightly chaotic in part, so perhaps Farrell is somewhat correct.
Doing the LBRP and LIRH did seem to balance things or start fresh anyway.
 
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