How would you approach transforming a narcissist?

[Axolotl]

Mainly out of curiosity, though not without a wish to act, I’m asking everyone here who has experience practising any form of spiritual manipulation of reality (be it magick of any kind or religion, I’d love to hear a diverse range of opinions) what your approach would be when dealing with a narcissistic person.

This person has very low empathy and is destroying lives through lies and careless actions. He operates through emotional manipulation and constantly shapes his personal reality by claiming things that never happened, essentially believing his own tales. By the time people realise his true nature, it’s always too late, the damage has already been done.

I do not wish harm on this person. What I would like to know is how you, as someone wielding hidden knowledge, would try to force him to act with empathy.

I’m not sure whether he is an empty vessel governed by something dark, or whether there is a soul in there that has been defeated and is in deep slumber. So either taking away the damaging part of his free will, or rescuing the soul, are things I would personally consider.

Since I am new to anything in this realm, I first want to consult all of you and listen to your preferred rituals and opinions on the topic, without judgement.

All the usual, natural ways of dealing with him have been exhausted. Simple verbal tactics and ordinary psychology are not enough for this level of malicious self-love and zero empathy. No protection has proven strong enough against his constant attacks. Apart from the obvious mental-health intervention and legal prevention, what would you do to induce change against a force so actively destructive?

 

[RobCorvid]

This is totally opinion. I'm an older guy and have seen people like this....was married to a borderline.

In my experience you can't fix this. Sure there's ways to cause blowback to him but I think the best option is to just remove this person from your life.

If he is as you describe, even having his schemes blowback on him will not bring about true change. Perhaps he might adjust his behavior but will likely just play the victim and "poor me, everyone is out to get me" his way into more devilry.

Warn who will listen but otherwise please just try to cut this person out of your life and the lives of those you love.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 4:44 PM

There's also the option of workings that make this person, and others like him, see you as someone not to be toyed with. That way you aren't doing anything "to" anyone else. You're working on yourself.

 

[Oceanic]

Hello, in recent months I've found a deeper understanding for myself in the guidance I've been getting in my life, often unknowingly or intuitively. I've been able to connect to my spirit guides through the use of a pendulum. What they've told me is that they are connected to other guides. I have been successful in asking my guides to pass on in the most loving manner and from a loving place, wishes to the person's guides to help them in a more positive and loving life journey. Often also asking them if they can give them insights into what their behaviours are doing to others etc., and help them reflect and heal, so being quite specific.
It sounds like you are coming from a caring loving place to be asking this question, so if you put it forward like that, and ask in a similar manner, I'm sure your wishes will be heard and conveyed.
I generally just ask for my guides out loud or talk in my head to them. When you ask for them they'll be there to listen.
However, ultimately we are all on our own life journey and some of us will continue choosing a negative hurtful path to self and others. Therfore, as much as we try to influence them with words or spirit, we cannot change them. It's up to the person to do so. If they don't change, then often the only thing we can do, and which may eventually bring about some reflection or change, is to stop all contact with that person, even when they are family. If they keep hurting you, no matter what you do or change in your contact with them, then it's the right thing to protect yourself from further manipulation and pain. I wish you and that person all the best and a positive and loving life journey.

 

[Tryp]

I don't think that you can transform a core aspect of someone else's personality with magical workings. Nor I think you should, in any case, but let's not derail the thread.

You could try, if anything, to exert an influence in circumstances and outcomes that would bring someone closer to confront their own issues. But even that would require you to have a deep understanding of these issues, and anyway that does not sound like material for magical operations either, just plain old intervention.

Toxic narcissism is often paradoxical. The lack of empathy and the self-centered behavior may hide actually an extremely weak ego, that the person desperately tries to uphold and validate. Thus a route to fix that involves acceptance, which is often in the opposite side of what the person is doing; accepting the source of their behavior is not something they are willing or even ready to do.

In my opinion, keep a distance and spend your energy working on yourself and, if working on others, focus on people willing to change.

 

[RobCorvid]

Toxic narcissism is often paradoxical. The lack of empathy and the self-centered behavior may hide actually an extremely weak ego, that the person desperately tries to uphold and validate.

In my experience this is very true. Thank you for pointing out that aspect.

 

[r4zorenigma]

The best way to deal with a narcissist is usually to cut them out of your life, binding them and then banishing them from your reality.

Oddly enough, yesterday would have been the perfect time for a ritual to take care of this.. was a full moon on Saturn's day.. a working in the hour of Saturn --while both the moon and Saturn were in Aries.

Saturn teaches karmic lessons, harsh lessons, and is a very authoritarian type energy.. it can break things down, cause people to change, restrict and bind people from harming others, etc.. Saturn is quite mysterious..

Otherwise, working with energies of Venus and Mercury can help create more of a loving energy wihtin him and one that is open to communicating and receptive to communication..

If you can't tell, I focus alot on planetary magick because to me its the most effective and its a system that doesn't require any religious or spiritual dogmas!

 

[Firetree]

The best way to deal with a narcissist is usually to cut them out of your life, binding them and then banishing them from your reality.

Oddly enough, yesterday would have been the perfect time for a ritual to take care of this.. was a full moon on Saturn's day.. a working in the hour of Saturn --while both the moon and Saturn were in Aries.

Saturn teaches karmic lessons, harsh lessons, and is a very authoritarian type energy.. it can break things down, cause people to change, restrict and bind people from harming others, etc.. Saturn is quite mysterious..

Otherwise, working with energies of Venus and Mercury can help create more of a loving energy wihtin him and one that is open to communicating and receptive to communication..

If you can't tell, I focus alot on planetary magick because to me its the most effective and its a system that doesn't require any religious or spiritual dogmas!

My 'one' (long term problematic narcissist - see your other thread ) , went too far and put his foot in it , now the authorities will act .

That seems to be the only option as they are 'incurable ' ( I previously dealt with him by fronting him face to face , he would not pick on me as I am strong and competent ; he prefers the weak ; women, children , etc to dominate .. however I have had to watch and see the damage he causes others )

 

[Ohana]

Mainly out of curiosity, though not without a wish to act, I’m asking everyone here who has experience practising any form of spiritual manipulation of reality (be it magick of any kind or religion, I’d love to hear a diverse range of opinions) what your approach would be when dealing with a narcissistic person.

This person has very low empathy and is destroying lives through lies and careless actions. He operates through emotional manipulation and constantly shapes his personal reality by claiming things that never happened, essentially believing his own tales. By the time people realise his true nature, it’s always too late, the damage has already been done.

I do not wish harm on this person. What I would like to know is how you, as someone wielding hidden knowledge, would try to force him to act with empathy.

I’m not sure whether he is an empty vessel governed by something dark, or whether there is a soul in there that has been defeated and is in deep slumber. So either taking away the damaging part of his free will, or rescuing the soul, are things I would personally consider.

Since I am new to anything in this realm, I first want to consult all of you and listen to your preferred rituals and opinions on the topic, without judgement.

All the usual, natural ways of dealing with him have been exhausted. Simple verbal tactics and ordinary psychology are not enough for this level of malicious self-love and zero empathy. No protection has proven strong enough against his constant attacks. Apart from the obvious mental-health intervention and legal prevention, what would you do to induce change against a force so actively destructive?

There's some really basic occuIt recommendations I have like do a tarot spread/reading asking about this specific person. If you don't have tarot cards going online for tarot like websites that let you draw cards can help or videos for what to do in this situation like whether to completely cut them out, find a way to help, or something in the middle.

I like asking for signs in dreams too. So maybe ask your higher self, guides, whatever beIief you prescribe to to get a dream about what you shouId do in this situation. Then journal about the dream to find out what you shouId do here.

There's also asking someone to help like a professionaI tarot reader or something similar. Asking for signs something to that end can help too. There's probably more you can do occuIt wise but those are the first things that came to my mind.

Now Iooking at my own opinions for this I reccomend reading the book "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Barcroft to get more in depth into the reasons why peopIe like that do what they do. The generaI labeI of narcissist doesn't do much good in this particular case because he sounds more like a pathological Iiar than a narcissist (cannot diagnose though since not a pyschologist). Its not a catch-aII term for everyone despite the sociaI media side of pyschology want peopIe to beIieve so they can make money off demonizing random mentaI health probIems. I wonder what new one they'II choose once narcissism wares off maybe they'II spin a wheeI to see.

Rant aside to reaIIy transform a "narcissist" peopIe like that means it takes constant work and is usually due to unchecked power and peopIe not saying "no" to them. If you have stabIe support groups and you think they can't do too much damage to your Iife maybe confronting them about their behavior and seeing if they want to get heIp for it can work. If it is too much trouble then there might not be much you can do but that doesn't mean you can't ask help from someone who you think can confront them.

Completely transforming someone Iike that might take a qualified pyschologist, Iife coach or someone whose job it is to do that since it wouId be Iike a job basicaIIy. It wouId take a Iot of work, a Iot of pyschologicaI know how, a Iot of expierence and a Iot of time. Also they have to be willing to change too. There's no easy soIutions and thats why situations Iike this are hard. PeopIe are complicated and need a Iot of support so thats my advice for you.

 

[HoldAll]

It's difficult enough to transform yourself willingly but another person? Attempting to alter somebody elses's entire personality against their will is basically a curse, no matter how nobly you may dress it up. His narcissism may be repugnant to others but it's all he has to get through life successfully, how he coped through all these years, how he perceives reality.

You're proposing to destroy the very foundations of his being. Take for example excessive self-confidence and charisma - why would you want to give up your gift of convincing others to fulfill your needs against their own best interests? You may think you're doing society at large a favour by reforming an obviously bad apple but once you start meddling supernaturally (which is worse than just mundane emotional manipulation, in my book), anything can happen. He might become more aggressive and lash out because he feels that his powers are waning. His whole life he's seen polite social behaviour as a weakness, and now he feels like he's slipping. He may develop an addiction. He may become even more of an asshole. Anything is possible once you decide to interfere with the free will of another person just so that you and your friends can enjoy a smoother social life, it's one of those things where every tiny nudge can result in unintended consequences because of the impossible level of complexity involved.

It would be much easier to use a spell or sigil in order to shut the guy out of your social life, make him move, or quit his job if it's a workplace situation. If he seems irreplaceable for some reason, the problem may lie elsewhere but you won't make a saint out of him.

 

[Axolotl]

First of all, thank you for your comment. I respect your point of view, but not your tone. I realise this is coming from personal pain and examples from your own life, so I hope you heal.

no matter how nobly you may dress it up

I never attempted to dress anything up or appear noble. I was quite clear about my intention: to gather opinions so I can see how different people might approach this problem. I merely stated that I do not intend to harm him. That does not mean I am unwilling to, nor that I will definitely do so.

it's all he has to get through life successfully

Absolutely not.

You're proposing to destroy the very foundations of his being

I never proposed anything. I am seeking opinions on the topic. Proposing something implies a definite plan to take action.

self-confidence and charisma

That is not what he has at his core, but I do not blame you. You lack a serious amount of context here.

You may think you're doing society at large a favour

It is not just about society. First and foremost I am trying to save my own life and a loved one’s.

just mundane emotional manipulation

It is not “just mundane emotional manipulation.” You seem to be filling in the gaps with quite specific ideas of your own. I don’t appreciate the patronising tone.

His whole life he's seen polite social behaviour as a weakness

Not exactly. You don’t know this person. I do, down to the core. I never asked anyone to profile him. With the tools, opportunities, love and help he was always surrounded with, and with zero reason for such personality traits to develop, one might even think he is possessed. But I digress.

just so that you and your friends can enjoy a smoother social life

The people I have seen get hurt were not friends of mine. Just poor, innocent souls who got caught in his trap. Way too many of them. I keep my friends away from him, which is not hard because they already know how he is. If anything, they would hurt him for everything he has done and continues to do. I enjoy a smooth social life; that is not what he is corrupting or damaging. Again, you are injecting very specific ideas. I wonder what makes you so determined to defend someone like him by presenting your personal assumptions as facts.

It would be much easier to use a spell or sigil in order to shut the guy out of your social life, make him move, or quit his job if it's a workplace situation. If he seems irreplaceable for some reason, the problem may lie elsewhere but you won't make a saint out of him.

I highly doubt spells and sigils would work on a person and a bond like this, but I am not practising any form of magick (or similar), so I could be wrong. This is far more complex than a workplace situation or a simple “move out.” It encompasses those things and much more. It is not just financial, not just mental. It is life-altering. He is not irreplaceable, he is unavoidable and persistent like cancer. Otherwise I would not be asking about things like this.

At this point I am reluctant to give the full context, because despite being a staff member you have been quite disrespectful and self-righteous. I appreciate the other comments, people can communicate opposing views and personal experiences without being either hostile or sugar-coating things.

Just for further clarification: my long-term goal is definitely to cut him out of our lives completely, as others recommended. That is of course the ultimate goal, but it is impossible at this time and will remain so for quite some time, hence my questions. All legal and medical options have been exhausted. There are no resources left to strategise with. This is not a minor inconvenience, and it is not my first time dealing with abuse, pain or difficult situations. I am not looking for charity; simply for points of view on how others would deal with a situation like this.

 

[HoldAll]

Just for further clarification: my long-term goal is definitely to cut him out of our lives completely, as others recommended. That is of course the ultimate goal, but it is impossible at this time and will remain so for quite some time, hence my questions. All legal and medical options have been exhausted. There are no resources left to strategise with. This is not a minor inconvenience, and it is not my first time dealing with abuse, pain or difficult situations. I am not looking for charity; simply for points of view on how others would deal with a situation like this.

Ok. Suit yourself.

 

[r4zorenigma]

@Axolotl Narcissists relish off control. this is because they usually have had weak sense of personal power growing up due to other narcissists in their life controlling them in many ways.. To diminish a narcissist, you take away their power over you by removing yourself from their life.. The more people that remove themselves from that persons life-- the more the Narc starts to feel helpless.. and start looking inward and trying to better themselves.

Narcissists usually feed off of everyone giving them energy.. thats why they are closely related with the idea of "energy vampires". They have an issue with accountability.. so the more people who try to make them feel accountable for their actions, usually does help a bit-- but they will still feel empowered often.. as painting them as the villain also energizes their ego.. they can then play like they ar e powerful "its me vs everyone!" --- but when there is no everyone, or anyone.. and they are by themselves.. they start realizing, reflecting, finally taking accountability..

consequences are a narcsisists worst enemy.. ie: ending up in prison for somethinng they did wrong usually finally causes them to reflect for a long time.. when they no longer have the aura of power over others..