Jason Miller's courses

[Francesca]

Has anyone bought the "your first 30 days of magic" course? I'm thinking about buying it but wanted to get some opinions first!

 

[solxyz]

I haven't taken that course, and haven't even read its description. Overall, I'm a big fan of Jason's courses. I know he's a somewhat controversial figure, but I think he's one of the best teachers of practical magic out there. The courses I've taken from him have provided a very strong foundation for my further explorations and combine breadth, depth, and streamlined clarity, which is quite an accomplishment. That said, I'm a bit skeptical of his new material. He seems to be largely recycling his themes, which is pretty normal, and maybe this is a perspectival thing, representing the fact that I've already absorbed what I need to from him. In any case, if you're starting out I would consider his Strategic Sorcery course instead.

 

[Francesca]

I haven't taken that course, and haven't even read its description. Overall, I'm a big fan of Jason's courses. I know he's a somewhat controversial figure, but I think he's one of the best teachers of practical magic out there. The courses I've taken from him have provided a very strong foundation for my further explorations and combine breadth, depth, and streamlined clarity, which is quite an accomplishment. That said, I'm a bit skeptical of his new material. He seems to be largely recycling his themes, which is pretty normal, and maybe this is a perspectival thing, representing the fact that I've already absorbed what I need to from him. In any case, if you're starting out I would consider his Strategic Sorcery course instead.

Believe me that's the one I want! But $300 is a lot of money for an unemployed student

 

[Faria]

Has anyone bought the "your first 30 days of magic" course?

I have not, but his other courses have been leaked and I've given them a fairly thorough read-through after the auto-transcribe. Like I said about those, my main criticism is that it's stuff for you to do, not what he does.

Have you ever been fishing? Make a guide for new fishermen. You don't have to actually do any of the things you're teaching people, just make it make sense and be an approachable person, and charge $300 for it. Share your link with enough people, and boom! that's $300 per person in your pocket and all you had to do was talk about something you enjoy.

Why do you think Jason Miller has something to teach you that you need to learn? Do you really think you're going to get more out of a $300 Zoom call than discovering these things some other way? If you had to completely ignore the existence of books and classes, what stands out to you as a sign that Jason Miller is a magician?

I personally wouldn't take a "financial (anything)" class from someone who isn't rich. Same guy teaching Kali class, Hecate class, Christian class... I'm definitely seeing more about selling classes to whoever rather than consistency and something to show for it.

There are dozens of magic people out there doing stuff, many of them have useful things to say. JM happens to be out there on a daily basis trying to sell more classes, so you see them available. You aren't getting anything other than what you could get here or on YouTube for free. You are paying to say you paid and thereby become a part of the "group of people who took a Jason Miller class," or you just want some kind of personal attention, or (as is most likely) you just don't know where else to look.

As someone who has read just about everything, and who has heard all the gurus give their guru talks, and who knows all the secrets of all the secret people, I can tell you with absolute certainty that you will miss nothing by skipping the "learn for a fee" people. Magic is not like Kung Fu or Navajo Beading, because you can take a class in those and be sure that the teacher is competent and at the end you have something obviously real to show for it. If anybody ever tells you that magic is a skill, make them demonstrate that skill before you pay them to teach it.

 

[Frater M.M.]

Looking at his site, I see this?

YOUR FIRST 30 DAYS OF MAGIC

TODAY CAN BE YOUR FIRST DAY OF MAGIC!​

To too long ago the biggest problem someone wanting to study magic or witchcraft faced was finding any kind of information. Today the problem is the opposite: TOO MUCH INFORMATION and most of it bad.

This class separates the signal from the noise and gives you 30 pithy and practical lessons. One written e-mail lesson a day for thirty days.

Anyone that takes these lessons and does the exercises in them will have done more magic in one month than most manage in their first year.

All for Fifty Bucks!

This I wouldn't buy, personally. It's just looks like a load of pre-written emails? I'd just get a book.

------------

This potentially looks a bit more interesting. I guess it would be depend on what extra material you got aside from his books, who else was doing it, what the quality of discussion is like in the private forums, and how much actual input you got from Jason Miller in the forums:

The Strategic Sorcery Course​

The Strategic Sorcery Course consists of 52 lessons in practical magic arriving one each week.
It also gives you access to the Strategic Sorcery community, one of the most productive and supportive groups of occultists on the internet.

---

Lesson list
Below is a list of the lessons that you will be getting week to week:

1. Meditation Part 1
2. Subtle Bodies and Channels
3. Zone Rites
4. Thought management
5. Offerings
6. Offerings 2
7. Subtle Body Power Centers
8. Prayer
9. The Elements
10. The Elements Part 2
11. The Planets
12. The Planets Part 2
13. Azoth
14. Materia Magica
15. Materia 2
16. Materia 3
17. Amulets and Talismans
18. Tools
19. Magic of Place
20. Dream Sorcery
21. The Planes
22. Astral Projection
23. Astral Mechanics
24. Artificial Spirits
25. Spirits of Place
26. Necromancy
27. Necromancy 2
28. Grimoire Spirits
29. Grimoire Spirits 2
30. Grimoire Spirits 3
31. SS Mini Grimoire
32. Spirit Houses
33. Meditation 2
34. 10 Principles of Strategic Sorcery
35. Set Point and how to Move it
36. Tactical Timing
37. Will and Willpower
38. Intelligence Gathering
39. Information Sorcery
40. Persona and Influence Work
41. Time Management
42. Strategic Sorcery Group Work
43. Healing
44. Attack Magick
45. Causal Level Magick
46. Financial Sorcery 1
47. Financial Sorcery 2
48. Financial Sorcery 3
49. Working for others
50. Sex Magic
51. Advancing the art of Magic
52. The Strategic Sorcerer

Take My Money!​

Cost for the course is just $150 for the whole year – less than $3 a lesson!

 

[solxyz]

Like I said about those, my main criticism is that it's stuff for you to do, not what he does.

On what basis do you make that claim. My impression is exactly the opposite: he is teaching what he does. These are, by and large, understandings and systems that he has developed for himself and is now sharing with others.

Why do you think Jason Miller has something to teach you that you need to learn? Do you really think you're going to get more out of a $300 Zoom call than discovering these things some other way?

Yes, absolutely. His courses helped me in significant ways, establishing me on a firm foundation that I had failed to find after years of reading all kinds of books, forums, etc. Jason has a broad and incisive perspective on magic, and he puts the heart of it into his courses. You might be able to assemble a similar understanding after years of putting things together yourself, but why would you do that? Connecting with directly with living teachers is an incredibly valuable thing, and quite frankly I find this hostility to the idea to be an emotional defect.

If you had to completely ignore the existence of books and classes, what stands out to you as a sign that Jason Miller is a magician?

Maybe the fact that he also does sorcery for hire. But why would I ignore the books and classes? The fact that he is a magician is clear from the incisive way that he brings together the multiple traditions that he has learned and worked in. As a Vajrayana practitioner myself, I can tell you that the Vajrayana aspects of his work are accurate. He clearly did in fact go to India and practice ngakpa sorcery with several lamas there.

There are dozens of magic people out there doing stuff, many of them have useful things to say.

To some extent. But most of them haven't made it their business to develop the things they have to say into a coherent body of teachings that can take a person from newbie to journeyman. And of those who do offer courses, I personally find Jason's to be the richest and most valuable, but perhaps that is because I'm drawn to his cross-tradition syncretic approach.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 12:13 AM

This I wouldn't buy, personally. It's just looks like a load of pre-written emails? I'd just get a book.

There is some overlap between the material in his books and in his courses, but there is a lot of valuable stuff in his courses that he does not put in his books.

This potentially looks a bit more interesting. I guess it would be depend on what extra material you got aside from his books, who else was doing it, what the quality of discussion is like in the private forums, and how much actual input you got from Jason Miller in the forums:

The Strategic Sorcery course is great. Lots of material there that is not reproduced in a book. If he expanded on it a bit and published it as a book, it could be a modern version of Agrippa's Three Books. In general his courses involve alternating weeks of prepackaged lessons with Q&A sessions. I did not find the private forum discussions to be particularly instructive, but did help keep up motivation.

 

[Francesca]

On what basis do you make that claim. My impression is exactly the opposite: he is teaching what he does. These are, by and large, understandings and systems that he has developed for himself and is now sharing with others.



Yes, absolutely. His courses helped me in significant ways, establishing me on a firm foundation that I had failed to find after years of reading all kinds of books, forums, etc. Jason has a broad and incisive perspective on magic, and he puts the heart of it into his courses. You might be able to assemble a similar understanding after years of putting things together yourself, but why would you do that? Connecting with directly with living teachers is an incredibly valuable thing, and quite frankly I find this hostility to the idea to be an emotional defect.



Maybe the fact that he also does sorcery for hire. But why would I ignore the books and classes? The fact that he is a magician is clear from the incisive way that he brings together the multiple traditions that he has learned and worked in. As a Vajrayana practitioner myself, I can tell you that the Vajrayana aspects of his work are accurate. He clearly did in fact go to India and practice ngakpa sorcery with several lamas there.



To some extent. But most of them haven't made it their business to develop the things they have to say into a coherent body of teachings that can take a person from newbie to journeyman. And of those who do offer courses, I personally find Jason's to be the richest and most valuable, but perhaps that is because I'm drawn to his cross-tradition syncretic approach.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 12:13 AM

There is some overlap between the material in his books and in his courses, but there is a lot of valuable stuff in his courses that he does not put in his books.


The Strategic Sorcery course is great. Lots of material there that is not reproduced in a book. If he expanded on it a bit and published it as a book, it could be a modern version of Agrippa's Three Books. In general his courses involve alternating weeks of prepackaged lessons with Q&A sessions. I did not find the private forum discussions to be particularly instructive, but did help keep up motivation.

This is definitely a new type of opinion and I appreciate it so much! Of course I appreciate too the other ones ive received, but it's nice to hear good things too, ive found his book really helpful and guiding and that's why I wanted to try one of his courses, it's also very nice to hear the opinion of someone who's a practitioner and has experience on the type of work Jason does and to hear you validate it. I appreciate it

 

[Faria]

On what basis do you make that claim. My impression is exactly the opposite: he is teaching what he does.

I have observed him for decades and read his materials. I don't currently have access to his class lessons, but there's a lot of stuff in there that I guarantee he wrote for the class and has never used or intended to use but just thought it was cool. The Cerberus thing comes to mind as an example. And it is cool, but it's something made for you, not for himself.

Connecting with directly with living teachers is an incredibly valuable thing, and quite frankly I find this hostility to the idea to be an emotional defect.

Living teachers, yes, that is great.

Living teachers who charge money to teach? Ignore them.

Come on, Alice, back me up: "It is the strict and inviolable rule of the Order that members of A∴A∴ never accept payment or other consideration for initiation or other services, on pain of irredeemable expulsion."

I regard all people who charge for teaching as permanently expelled from consideration as legitimate magicians.

Maybe the fact that he also does sorcery for hire. But why would I ignore the books and classes?

"Sorcery for Hire" is usually a scam. Participating in a field that is overstuffed with fraud is not an indicator of success, to me.

I suggest that ALL magicians be evaluated on what they do or have done, what they gain from it, and not at all from what they say or teach. The most powerful magicians I've known were all batshit crazy or illiterate and the friendly-talkers were all full of crap. Anybody can talk. If a guru/teacher never wrote anything, never taught anyone, never talked about magic at all or even mentioned it... would you look at their life and career and still say they're a wizard? If a person is worthy of the title, whether witch or wizard or any other sort of magic practitioner, they will get called that even if they never say anything remotely related to it.

 

[solxyz]

Living teachers, yes, that is great.

Living teachers who charge money to teach? Ignore them.

I regard all people who charge for teaching as permanently expelled from consideration as legitimate magicians.

Ah, now we come to the heart of it: entitlement. You think everything should be given to you for free, and you're letting your reactivity on this matter cloud your judgement about the value of what is actually being offered.

The truth of the matter is that basically every field of human activity, including both hobbies and professions, has people who make money as teachers of that field. Magic is no different, nor should it be. Teaching takes time and effort and brings value to the pupil. For the field to thrive teachers need to be compensated.

I suggest that ALL magicians be evaluated on what they do or have done, what they gain from it, and not at all from what they say or teach.

Conveniently for you, this is something that one can never definitively prove one way or the other. However, if we look at the big picture, it seems that Jason is in fact an effective magician. His financial situation has improved dramatically over the course of his life, and undoubtedly he was working magic to that end. That fact that he can support a family fairly comfortably doing something that he loves sounds like quite an accomplishment to me. Furthermore, my own experience is that his stuff works. I have had great success with the practices he teaches.

But even if Jason couldn't do shit for himself magically, I would still value his teachings for the way they have oriented me to the field of magic and enabled my own magical growth. Understanding, organizing, and teaching are valuable skills in themselves, and should be recognized as such. Of course I would want my teacher to have some grounding in actual practice, otherwise understanding can turn into misguided speculation, but it is clear that Jason does in fact have this grounding in real practice.

Are you sure that you're not just jealous?