Book Report Magick In Theory And Practice by Aleister Crowley

[Xenophon]

Oh...I would say sorry, but I lost too much face and can't talk. Expended half my wit composing that too. Which leaves me in dire straits indeed.

Post automatically merged: Oct 10, 2023

Wasn't sarcasm at all. I was actually genuinely saying 'Thanks, I needed that' as it made me laugh.

Actually, I should be thanking you. Your somewhat strident manner against gods reminds me that Evola claimed that religion started out as magic and gods only grew up as ways of working with the world's powers became ossified. He cited other sources that I can't go dig up now.
So I'm rethinking some of my magickal habits. To rephrase Tyler Durden, "Maybe a new pantheon isn't what we need."

 

[stratamaster78]

I’m not really sure if this is the best thread for this post but here goes..

Crowley’s Magick in Theory and Practice or Liber ABA has been on my physical wishlist forever it seems because I never could afford to buy it for $90-100

Well Amazon has is discounted and with an additional $16 coupon today!!

The Total Price is $67 before taxes.

I just jumped on that SO FAST!!

If anyone else had been wanting a physical copy like I have then now is probably the best chance to get a good deal so here is the link:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[pixel_fortune]

Even starting this thread is appreciated. Crowley's prose style irks me, which makes it harder to engage with. But I recognise its importance: hence happy to read another's walkthrough of it.

The trivial bit I can help with (I worked as a copyeditor for many years, consult me for all you grammar technicality needs)

The postulate he puts forth is:

ANY required Change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner through the proper medium to the proper object.

Essentially he's saying you need to follow the rules for the change you wish to affect. I'm pretty sure that should be "affected", which is a verb, not "effected", which is a noun, but what do I know?

Crowley's use is correct here. The verb/noun rule is a simple mnemonic that will fit most circumstances for most people, but it's not the whole story

Affect (verb): to change/influence something
Effect (verb): to make something happen, to put something into effect

So "the change you wish to effect" = the change you wish to make happen whereas "change you wish to affect" means "the change you wish to influence" which isn't quite right - it would mean a change is already happening and you want to change the way it changes

And then in the other direction:

Effect (noun): thing that happens as a consequence of a cause (bad definition but who cares)
Affect (noun, pronounced AFFect): demeanour, the external appearance of emotion

The more you know

 

[Roma]

I met Crowley a couple of times post-mortem. He was a grumpy sod so I left him to his problem with personal will

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I met Crowley a couple of times post-mortem.

Did you still have your wallet afterwards?

Post automatically merged: Dec 13, 2023

To remain on thread, it was Crowley's ideas about magic that encouraged me most when I was starting the occult part of my research. The idea that both 'normal' change and 'magickal' change were two sides of the same thing.

As I usually say to IT folks; "Magic is an edge condition of normal human consciousness"

 

[stratamaster78]

My copy just arrived and I'm crazy excited.

I've wanted a physical copy for about 8-10 years now.

It's a MASSIVE Tome for sure!!

I thought it was also really cool that when I opened it the 1st thing I saw was the Adoration that follows Liber Resh Vel Helios found in Chapter III of Liber Al Vel Legis sections 37-38 that starts with "Unity Uttermost Showed!" and ends with ".... Abide with me, Ra-Hoor-Khuit!"

That has always been a favorite of mine and most books on Magick that even teach Resh omit it for some reason. Now that I think about it Lon Milo Duquette may be the only author I can think of that for sure includes it with Resh.

But anyway this Book should keep me busy for a few decades...lol

Oh and as I post this my tablet is showing 93% charge on my battery (for those that remember my post about me seeing variations of 93 EVERYWHERE like ALL THE TIME) LOL.

 

[neilwilkes]

I’m not really sure if this is the best thread for this post but here goes..

Crowley’s Magick in Theory and Practice or Liber ABA has been on my physical wishlist forever it seems because I never could afford to buy it for $90-100

Well Amazon has is discounted and with an additional $16 coupon today!!

The Total Price is $67 before taxes.

I just jumped on that SO FAST!!

If anyone else had been wanting a physical copy like I have then now is probably the best chance to get a good deal so here is the link:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Tip appreciated - I just checked the UK Amazon and it is even cheaper for the hardcover there - under £30 including postage - so even though I have 'Theory & Practise' (Part 3) as well as 'The Law Is For All' and the Centennial Edition of Liber Al as well as all 10 volumes of The Equinox, I had to borrow your phrase and 'Jump all over it' in order to have all in one volume.
Yee-Ha!

 

[stratamaster78]

Tip appreciated - I just checked the UK Amazon and it is even cheaper for the hardcover there - under £30 including postage - so even though I have 'Theory & Practise' (Part 3) as well as 'The Law Is For All' and the Centennial Edition of Liber Al as well as all 10 volumes of The Equinox, I had to borrow your phrase and 'Jump all over it' in order to have all in one volume.
Yee-Ha!

@neilwilkes I just wanted to give you a heads up or at least clear up for others that you are looking at the UK exclusive Skinner Edition by Watkins.

That version does have the Notes by Stephen Skinner BUT the quality is MUCH worse than that of the US Edition by Red Wheel/Weiser.

For some reason they decided to go with a print on demand model for the book and the binding is very cheap and just about every one's reviews I've read or watched by video say that the binding begins to give way almost immediately.

It's a real shame too because I would like to read Skinner's notes but not bad enough for this edition.

I'm hoping it will be reprinted in the future in a more deluxe and well made edition.

 

[neilwilkes]

@neilwilkes I just wanted to give you a heads up or at least clear up for others that you are looking at the UK exclusive Skinner Edition by Watkins.

That version does have the Notes by Stephen Skinner BUT the quality is MUCH worse than that of the US Edition by Red Wheel/Weiser.

For some reason they decided to go with a print on demand model for the book and the binding is very cheap and just about every one's reviews I've read or watched by video say that the binding begins to give way almost immediately.

It's a real shame too because I would like to read Skinner's notes but not bad enough for this edition.

I'm hoping it will be reprinted in the future in a more deluxe and well made edition.

Really? There was no indication of this at all on the page, but I must admit it seemed to be incredibly cheap (which is why I jumped on it immediately) and now I know why - I thank you for this information very much.
That's a shame - but Amazon USA will not ship to me in the UK - I get told I must either use a different address or else log in to the UK site, which is a bit of a bastard as I used to buy a lot of books from the US site that are simply not sold in the UK at all - the latest translation of Dee's Monas Heiroglyphica for one on Orobouros Books, which is infuriating to put it mildly.
It's also a sod if the binding is that poor - the reason I buy hardcover is because paperbacks fall apart too easily, and if this looks too grafile then Amazon will get it back along with a user review explaining why it was returned - that will probably be deleted, as most over critical reviews seem to be these days in case some silly bastard gets offended.

 

[stratamaster78]

Really? There was no indication of this at all on the page, but I must admit it seemed to be incredibly cheap (which is why I jumped on it immediately) and now I know why - I thank you for this information very much.
That's a shame - but Amazon USA will not ship to me in the UK - I get told I must either use a different address or else log in to the UK site, which is a bit of a bastard as I used to buy a lot of books from the US site that are simply not sold in the UK at all - the latest translation of Dee's Monas Heiroglyphica for one on Orobouros Books, which is infuriating to put it mildly.
It's also a sod if the binding is that poor - the reason I buy hardcover is because paperbacks fall apart too easily, and if this looks too grafile then Amazon will get it back along with a user review explaining why it was returned - that will probably be deleted, as most over critical reviews seem to be these days in case some silly bastard gets offended.

I'm going by the price you quoted of £30 and I went and looked at Amazon UK and the Black Hardcover was listed for £28 and that's the UK exclusive Skinner Edition.

The reason you guys have that is because the OTO has all of Crowley's copyrights tied up in courts here claiming it belongs to the Order and that's also why so many of his books are OOP in the US.

But in the UK they basically put all of Crowley's works in the Free Domain 70 years after his death in 2017.

So yeah you guys have to either import a US copy or buy an older OOP US Copy or Go with a UK print on demand or paperback.

It's a mess.

It's really difficult for us to even import that Skinner Edition because of the copyright laws.

Magick without Tears and Liber Aleph have both especially been OOP for a long time and the OTO just will not reprint them for some reason.

But yeah if you get the Skinner edition in from Amazon and it's breaking from the binding right away send it back and see if you can get the Weiser Edition off eBay at some point.

 

[neilwilkes]

Whilst I have to agree it's a complete mess, I think a lot of the trouble are the copyright laws that allow material to go public source automatically after 75 years - whilst there will be a lot of people say this is a good thing I am not at all sure it is because it means anybody can use anything at all & profit from someone else's work and the end result is editions that are not quality controlled, and often either inaccurate or downright misleading with footnotes and so on and making a book if not at best a poor imitation of what it used to be through a bad edit and worse translation right the way to the floor at downright dangerous in it's outright ignorance of the subject the author professes to be proficient in (with apologies for the plagiarized rant).
So I can see the OTO's point in a lot of ways - as long as they are not equally prone to, shall we call it 'rampant revisionism' like oh, so many others these days of course, and I wish there were a way to actually get worldwide unified, authorized (preferably by someone who either has the rights or the knowledge, ideally both) and above all competently done and still at the same time not getting lawyers dragged in world wide either or all the poor publisher will get is a sharp lesson in real swindling at that point - the world would be if not a better place then at least a better informed place.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

So back on topic...what are the main differences between Crowley Book4, and Magick in Theory and Practice?

 

[Vandheer]

So back on topic...what are the main differences between Crowley Book4, and Magick in Theory and Practice?

Liber ABA is made of 4 parts.

Meditation is book one, in it he takes you through various key concepts of Yoga, up until Samadhi. This right here may be his best work if you ask me.

Magick (Theory) is book two. You will learn about various tools for the ceremonial magician and how to consecrate them.

Magick in Theory and Practice is the third book of Liber ABA, to answer your question.

Equinox of the Gods is the last book, its about Thelema, it includes Liber AL as well.

That is the main difference. Liber ABA is 4 books conpiled into one.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Okay. It must be Book4 where he drives into the meanings of the weapons and implements and has a few pages of wisdom, and MiTaP must be the the where he associates nursery rhymes as coded Qabalistic and magical messages.

 

[Vandheer]

Okay. It must be Book4 where he drives 8nto the meanings of the weapons and implements and has a few pages

Its in Liber ABA indeed. Second book is solely about this.

and MiTaP must be the the where he associates nursery rhymes as coded Qabalistic and magical messages

That is in The Equinox.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Wow. I am not a Crowley follower apparently.

 

[Rowena]

Whilst I have to agree it's a complete mess, I think a lot of the trouble are the copyright laws that allow material to go public source automatically after 75 years - whilst there will be a lot of people say this is a good thing I am not at all sure it is because it means anybody can use anything at all & profit from someone else's work and the end result is editions that are not quality controlled, and often either inaccurate or downright misleading with footnotes and so on and making a book if not at best a poor imitation of what it used to be through a bad edit and worse translation right the way to the floor at downright dangerous in it's outright ignorance of the subject the author professes to be proficient in (with apologies for the plagiarized rant).
So I can see the OTO's point in a lot of ways - as long as they are not equally prone to, shall we call it 'rampant revisionism' like oh, so many others these days of course, and I wish there were a way to actually get worldwide unified, authorized (preferably by someone who either has the rights or the knowledge, ideally both) and above all competently done and still at the same time not getting lawyers dragged in world wide either or all the poor publisher will get is a sharp lesson in real swindling at that point - the world would be if not a better place then at least a better informed place.

Well, since the official OTO/Weiser edition has some of the worst translations of Crowley's Latin that I've ever seen - apparently keeping control of copyright materials also results in misleading & bad translations, especially when the editor intentionally ignores much better translations by OTO members, simply because they were not of a high-enough degree.

Other than that though - this book should be considered essential reading as a historical document, given the influence it had on so many later authors and magical traditions.

 

[neilwilkes]

Well, since the official OTO/Weiser edition has some of the worst translations of Crowley's Latin that I've ever seen - apparently keeping control of copyright materials also results in misleading & bad translations, especially when the editor intentionally ignores much better translations by OTO members, simply because they were not of a high-enough degree.

Other than that though - this book should be considered essential reading as a historical document, given the influence it had on so many later authors and magical traditions.

I agree completely.
Bad Latin translations are sadly all too common though - Dee's work suffered in the same way, although that said Casaubon also screwed up his edition of 'A True & Faithfull etc' somewhat chronically too....shame really, given that was the main basis of the whole Golden Dawn system and a large part of the knowledge lectures too, yet Casaubon's errors were copied....