Pacts with unconventional spirits

[FireBorn]

Y'all make magick really interesting with your rules.

Here is the quiet part out loud: The rules that you say exist, only exist because you canonized them with your belief. Read that again.

 

[MorganBlack]

Y'all make magick really interesting with your rules.

Agreed. I have never gotten the impression pacts are even required for most entities.

The G.V. is chthonic and has House rules from the Hellenically-inspired Catholics who made it (and long use). In ancient Greek magic all this binding, coercing, and contractual exchange were almost exclusively the domain of underworld entities, spirits of the dead , and lower daimones. The classical Greek lead curse tablets - which were buried in graves, wells, or underground sanctuaries - were very much structured as a legal contract (pacts) between the living magician and the chthonic powers of Hekate, Hermes Chthonios, Persephone, and/or the unquiet dead. Then they had the chthonic oaths, Horkoi. Even the Olympian gods were bound by oaths sworn upon the River Styx as a chthonic pact. It's how we roll.

I'm not saying that this is objectively true outside of local chthonic / or GV House Rules / realities. If you and the spirits you interact with don't require it, all good. AbammonTheGreat is also right you might as well take advantage of the hierarchy that is there to enforce good manners, behavior, and contacts.

In general I tend agree , it's not 00% required 100% of the time, and is can be reserved for formal diplomatic protocols when just meeting a new spirit contact. it goes a long way to establish trust with them that you are not just some flake or tourist. That said, according to the folk sorcerers of the GV tradition, you are always making a pact if you interact with a spirit. Be sure to negotiate for the best deal.

 

[PinealisGlandia]

Djinn and fae and elemental and nature spirit are four ways of saying the same thing in different dialects. I have made some form of pact with an entity I've called out to under one of these names, so with that said, here are my thoughts on the subject of spirits.

In majiq, I find there are basically two categories of entity, and they're in all meaningful ways impossible to separate. There are internally generated phenomena that come across as entities in the mind, and there's stuff that's genuinely external, but nearly imperceptible. Like, people who have done a lot of work with summoning will attest that there's things that happen like the room suddenly feeling warmer or hotter, and this happens to groups of people too. But that's easy to brush off as imperfect air currents from the heating/cooling system of the building. After dozens of experiences, you stop thinking you're being fooled by a draft, but it certainly doesn't make for persuasive evidence to a dabbler or materialist.

I think what is really happening is it's like two soap bubbles merging in the bottom of the kitchen sink. They merge, pop, separate, but it's the same amount of air, just a tiny barrier creating the sense of division to create the idea of "a bubble". That's incarnation. All the soul energy is everywhere all the time, and the creatures and objects we sense are the divisions of that soul energy that creates "souls" (or "discrete packaged units of spirit-energy" if you're allergic to the word soul). In my view, "God" is the term used to describe all the soul energy in the current system, whatever its bounds are (i.e the multiverse), without barriers. In my metaphor, "God" is all the air on Earth, while "me" and "my djinn companion" are two bubbles in my kitchen. There's a lot of air (and bubbles) out there in the world.

That sense of an entity being in your presence is, metaphorically, the moment when one bubble splits into two, or when two bubbles merge and become one. It's a re-drawing of lines of division, but it's the same stuff inside, the same stuff making the barrier. The size and shape (that is, the expression of the thing) changes, but not its essence.

Even if you're on wifi right now, it's called an "air interface" in the telecom industry because it's doing the exact same stuff as a hardline, just with air as the conductor instead of a cable. Our devices are connected, and so are we. This is the moment where bubbles touch, merge and separate. I have a body now, but if I got hit by a train tomorrow, this post would remain. My spirit would remain in this post, to influence those who pass by and read it. That's the nature of spirit, it is enduring and expanding. With this post and my others on this site, my 'body' expands beyond the human form to include the servers WF is hosted on. Our shared body, the body of work of all the posters on WF.

I have done some arguably dumb shit in my pursuit of greater understanding of the nature of reality and consciousness. I spent a winter in Las Vegas meditating under 5G towers in an attempt to spread my consciousness through the connected devices to the cell grid and thereby gain experience from more than one body at a time. While I did have some pretty sweet visions that correlated to my goals and made it feel like a success, I also got cooked by the 5G and had something resembling a sunburn despite sitting in the shade the whole time, so I don't really advise others follow in my footsteps and instead just accept my takeaway that yes, the internet is kind of a branch-off community "organ" that facilitates telepathy. That was my druidic pilgrimage to LV where I attempted to communicate with the wifi spirits, which I fully believe exist as a modern class of nature spirit. See also my post on The Machine Spirit.

I did work in the woods to merge my identity with Oberon, King of the Fae, and my wife can attest we have fairies in our house. We leave them traditional offerings like the first and last crumbs and every now and then they repay us with a favor.
I have a complicated relationship with the elementals, which in my practice the air and water elementals are the weather spirits. I've been taking and integrating laypeople's suggestions for the weather for about seven years and I already understand why the spirits care so little about what humans want for weather, it's all over the place! Everyone has their own favorite season, their own favorite weather in it. I've merged and separated and remerged with the weather spirits so many times I take their attitude to the weather and create little games out of my rituals to keep it fun for me, like "summer ends when my fly kill average drops below 1/day" and keeping a running tally. I have a big stick I go out and shake at the sky to demand rain, knowing full well the only reason it rains after I do it is because the spirits find it hilarious to watch a modern man shake a stick at the sky in the middle of the city.

In my practice, I treat about half my dreams as being some sort of past/alternate life recollection. I view my body as a kind of filter, like a living sponge, that processes experiences that flow through as memories living within soul-particles that enter and leave my body at will. Part of my bargain with the fae was that I would trade a memory with them at the door every time I went between this world and theirs, and it sure as shit has happened. Mundanely it's explained by the fact that I have seizures and lose recall with them, but majiqally, it only started happening after I started thinking of myself as a real-life D&D wizard who forgets his spells after he casts them and has to reread his notes to remember how to cast the spell. After I bargained with the fae to trade memories for wisdom.

I can't recall the name of the elemental king of fire, I'm sure he has a few, but I did a thing where I burnt a lot of my notes as an offering to him. Like, whole notebooks full of writing. I was invoking that scene from Acts 19:19, the idea was essentially that because I didn't have a bunch of money to use as an offering, I could use my notes, which were worth a lot of money.

It wasn't formal because of the nature of the entity, but I've been working with Eris as the face of The Goddess since I was a preteen. The principia discordia's description of Eris and Aneris explains the world so clearly, a greco-american take on the , order by nature makes order out of chaos, and chaos by nature makes chaos out of order, and the world expands because these orders and chaoses are different from the ones that came before, increasing the variety of information in the world and preserving it against stagnation through this mechanism. Nothing makes for a relentless optimist quite like devoting yourself to chaos. It teaches you to enjoy the good times while they last because nothing lasts forever, and to shrug off the bad times because nothing lasts forever. It teaches you not to be upset when the world knocks down your pile of blocks because it used some blocks to knock it down and gave those to you when it did so.

I guess the best way to wrap this post up is to say, you're full of pacts with other spirits, every interaction with your environment is a subtle agreement with it. The planet orcus in astrology is considered the planet of oaths, and you can look at your placement and its transits to consider how your own personal approach to oaths guides your life philosophy or should be reshaped. Consider the ways you treat your coworkers, family, friends and property as subtle reflections of agreements you have with other pieces of Creation, and therefore, as expressions of YOU as an immortal spirit. If you break your video game controller in a rage, that's who you are forever. If you cut someone off in traffic, that's how your immortalized forever in their mind, and it is a subtle "contract" with that person. If you don't change the oil in your car, you've broken your side of the vow you made with your car when you purchased it, to take care of it. There's life in all things, and you'll prove it when you kill your car if you ignore the oil until your engine blows, you understand? And that car is a piece of you, an extension of you, so take care of your things like you're taking care of your own body.

 

[Jade]

Y'all make magick really interesting with your rules.

Here is the quiet part out loud: The rules that you say exist, only exist because you canonized them with your belief. Read that again.

Didn't say it was necessary to make pacts just wondered if you could with specific types of spirits. people often speak of pacts with demons but what about everything else. this was just to hear people thoughts not to make rules.

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:55 AM

Djinn and fae and elemental and nature spirit are four ways of saying the same thing in different dialects. I have made some form of pact with an entity I've called out to under one of these names, so with that said, here are my thoughts on the subject of spirits.

In majiq, I find there are basically two categories of entity, and they're in all meaningful ways impossible to separate. There are internally generated phenomena that come across as entities in the mind, and there's stuff that's genuinely external, but nearly imperceptible. Like, people who have done a lot of work with summoning will attest that there's things that happen like the room suddenly feeling warmer or hotter, and this happens to groups of people too. But that's easy to brush off as imperfect air currents from the heating/cooling system of the building. After dozens of experiences, you stop thinking you're being fooled by a draft, but it certainly doesn't make for persuasive evidence to a dabbler or materialist.

I think what is really happening is it's like two soap bubbles merging in the bottom of the kitchen sink. They merge, pop, separate, but it's the same amount of air, just a tiny barrier creating the sense of division to create the idea of "a bubble". That's incarnation. All the soul energy is everywhere all the time, and the creatures and objects we sense are the divisions of that soul energy that creates "souls" (or "discrete packaged units of spirit-energy" if you're allergic to the word soul). In my view, "God" is the term used to describe all the soul energy in the current system, whatever its bounds are (i.e the multiverse), without barriers. In my metaphor, "God" is all the air on Earth, while "me" and "my djinn companion" are two bubbles in my kitchen. There's a lot of air (and bubbles) out there in the world.

Great metaphor

I have done some arguably dumb shit in my pursuit of greater understanding of the nature of reality and consciousness. I spent a winter in Las Vegas meditating under 5G towers in an attempt to spread my consciousness through the connected devices to the cell grid and thereby gain experience from more than one body at a time. While I did have some pretty sweet visions that correlated to my goals and made it feel like a success, I also got cooked by the 5G and had something resembling a sunburn despite sitting in the shade the whole time, so I don't really advise others follow in my footsteps and instead just accept my takeaway that yes, the internet is kind of a branch-off community "organ" that facilitates telepathy. That was my druidic pilgrimage to LV where I attempted to communicate with the wifi spirits, which I fully believe exist as a modern class of nature spirit. See also my post on The Machine Spirit.

Wow, Wifi spirits huh, very interesting. have you ever had full contact?

I guess the best way to wrap this post up is to say, you're full of pacts with other spirits, every interaction with your environment is a subtle agreement with it. The planet orcus in astrology is considered the planet of oaths, and you can look at your placement and its transits to consider how your own personal approach to oaths guides your life philosophy or should be reshaped. Consider the ways you treat your coworkers, family, friends and property as subtle reflections of agreements you have with other pieces of Creation, and therefore, as expressions of YOU as an immortal spirit. If you break your video game controller in a rage, that's who you are forever. If you cut someone off in traffic, that's how your immortalized forever in their mind, and it is a subtle "contract" with that person. If you don't change the oil in your car, you've broken your side of the vow you made with your car when you purchased it, to take care of it. There's life in all things, and you'll prove it when you kill your car if you ignore the oil until your engine blows, you understand? And that car is a piece of you, an extension of you, so take care of your things like you're taking care of your own body.

That is a great way of explaining thank you

 

[Amadeus]

But is everything Orthodox and Islamic so 'hot'?

No not exactly everything. The islamic stuff divides into hot, balanced and cold. Something with a power name in there is considered to be hot. The salawats which are about the prophet, they are not hot, some are. People also divide into those who like the fierce majestic jalali verses and those who do only cold jamali salawats, maybe the DK dalayl khayrat too. Some try to go for a balanced approach. The servants of the hot verses are more fierce.
Anything that is hot and gets often recited will have strong spiritual effects. They start clearing the central channel from within, light blasts through. Then the energy sensitivity will start unlocking. The blockades dissolve and burn away and the light cuts in like a hot knife through butter.
If it all comes through unfiltered then the recitations will make you supremely high, total ecstasy but that is also somewhat of a problem. For the maximum it would have to penetrate straight through. The pineal gland inside starts heating up and then the magic happens.
There are some ultra strong texts over there, so strong that your head will start humming, especially if it all goes right through.

take it if everything was always so hot

If you do the same thing every day the effects will change. You will be processing it until it becomes more and more natural. You unite with the main energy stream behind it. This is also why it is a bit difficult to use 2 streams at once, one will take over another.

Which spirits get mad/jealous though?

Switching between the systems. Maybe you work a lot with some verse servant and suddenly decide to go for x Buddhist deity. The first one will definitely not like that. Seems to be especially so with those from the sufi practices.

what do you recommend asking for in terms of spiritual growth

If you are actively doing such practices then the growth will happen naturally anyway. Everyone has their own goals.

Post automatically merged: Today at 6:25 AM

Orthodox

These practices are hot and crazy yes.

@Jade One of the problems with the agreements. You might mentally notice that the practices make you too hype. Especially if something is recited over and over again rapidly. Too fast, too long sessions and mentally you go out of order. A strange hype mode kicks in. This happens the most with speed-reading 1-2 word mantras.

Post automatically merged: Today at 6:44 AM

The GV daimons, the Astrachios prayer, the Four Demon Kings, the Headless Rite

With the headless rite I can remember some weird effects. The GV invocations (I memorized 3 of them) for a while I think the invocation to Lucifer from there (8-10 years ago) it had destabilizing effects)
Astrachios. I have to experiment with this one, can't remember what happened with it. I don't think I've read it much.

 

[MorganBlack]

invocation to Lucifer from there (8-10 years ago) it had destabilizing effects)

Man, good stuff, Amadeus! I

I hope in time we on WF can put all our heads anf experience together and see if we can help newcomers with some solid general recommendations. I hope this next bit is even helpful for someone.

---------------
For background context:

My first cobbled-together GV ritual was to Lucifer. It was dramatic, but then terrible. (My fault. ) But it put me on the underworld road as I figured out what I was doing. Took some time to get my bearings. I was very secular-brained to start, which has limitations. I should have taken more cues from Folk Catholicism early on (and just chatted more with my curandera aunt, but I was intellectually arrogant), and it took a fair amount of time in the Vodou community to get a better opertive ritual framework.

Oh, Astrachios, also called the "Prayer for Success" goes "Astrachios, Asac, Acra Bedrimuliel, Silat, Arabonas..." and is basically a long list of demon names. The most dramatic manifestations have happened after I basically treated it like an extended mantra and would just say it for a couple of weeks on the hour's drive to the studio and back each day.

I disagree with people who say you can just say whatever you like. GV House Rules, as I understand them, say no. But you can go make your own House, all by yourself, and do this magic stuff all alone. You be you, backaroos.

GV magicians, inspired by JSK and the Catholic Liturgy of the Hours (Lauds, Sext, Vespers, Compline), have taken to using it as a daily Resh and tying it to the solar quarters, which I try to do, but I' super lazy.

-------------------

Ok ,that i just the background trivia to get to where I can say I totally agree about the temporary destabalization and bio-pychic strain.

Totally agreed minor uptick in chaos and weirdness tends to subside after a few performances (But watch out for phycial accidents for a little while! Seriously folks!) - and then things tend to move more smoothly. The daily repitions mitigate this, I have noticed. Full rituala are still intense but are mercifully less common once you have " haunted" your life (and occasional the lives of others) with an ally.

The GV "is" Saturn and Mars coded. Astrachios as litany of demon names and Saturnian and Martial angels .

I THINK it is just how the whole GV / Grand Grim / Black Dragon current rolls, and it breaks things up a bit at first, then it all flows better for some reason. I have to disagree with the person who said demons want to destroy you totally. They want to break apart your 'little you' so more of the divine comes thorugh.

I think they benefit from us doing this, but that is my personal gnosis. They can be prety insistant about our person thesosis (divinzation), but again, I not saying you daimonic contacts will do this,or require it. There are infinte daimons, and they are not all the same.

In my personal gnosis, and from what I can see now of other GV magicians (now that we have more), the entities that respond to the GV are more like Neoplatonic Wrathful Buddhas, who can act plenty demonic if you push them.

So the GV 'tribe', or those that travel along with the GV (and I THINK the other chthonic grims) I have found to be more like the Headless One, Shiva, or Christ in that they want to destroy everything that is not your connection to the Divine. So watch out. We like a lot of our little vanities and sugary bon-bons. There will be more of those later, after the work is done.

What I can't tell right now if any person can just pluck then names and seals out of the process, and wander out into the back alley or woods and make it safely through the underworld to meet them. Maybe? There are "things" that live there too that are not you freind, and you benefit for havng a solid agreement with a demonic ally. A "big bad"to seal with the little bads.

I have found to work with 'hot" things while very "cold" and Saturn is a good guide here. Be cold as ice. Dead inside. I leanred this in Vodu from my dealing with Met Kalfu who is very hot, like all Petwo lwa.

Since I'm all holy now (snort - long story) I have also found other "trick" is to embody divine love and grace . Agape as a universal compassion is "cool" and turns out, from a purely practical socerous stance, is a fine alternative to being a Dead Man. I have found. Not that I am recommending being so mercenary and utilitarian as a permanent stance etiher.

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For more of what this Orphic burning off of the "soot" (nee "Original Sin", in the TradCath mythic framework) the GV daimons can bring , see Mat Hatfield's Substack , whic covers many fine points of a Grimorium Verum practice from a more JSK Thelemic mythic framework (FYI, the more Catholic GV peeps and the Thelemic GV peeps get along just fine, and support each other. )

he "Ordeal" (to use the Book fo the Law term) Matt is went through is reported often enough that it's a feature not a bug. I am a vastly better person for having gone through it. But it's not fun. The Demonalotry community calls it the 'Tower Card' and they have learned it helps you grow your soul. A couple of GV magican's want to try to mitigate the this 'Forced Growing-Up' effect but I am not sure that is even possible or desirable. I guess you could stick with party daimons?

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