Sartael Comes to Collect

[Eldros]

Imagine this:

You have three wishes from a demon. Let’s call him Sartael.
He guarantees that you get exactly what you ask for, so you can ask for anything. No flaws, no tricks, and no "you could have said it differently" He fulfills his promises.
Sounds excellent, doesn't it?
There is only one catch..
He wants you to do him a small favor in return.
When you ask, he won't tell you what it is. He assures you that it won't instantly endanger your life and that it will be something "modest."
The thing is that, well, you know it's a demon. For one small favor, why would he give you three wishes?/
Would you accept the proposal?
What would you want, and how much would you be prepared to risk, if you did?

 

[Aeternus]

Imagine this:

You have three wishes from a demon. Let’s call him Sartael.
He guarantees that you get exactly what you ask for, so you can ask for anything. No flaws, no tricks, and no "you could have said it differently" He fulfills his promises.
Sounds excellent, doesn't it?
There is only one catch..
He wants you to do him a small favor in return.
When you ask, he won't tell you what it is. He assures you that it won't instantly endanger your life and that it will be something "modest."
The thing is that, well, you know it's a demon. For one small favor, why would he give you three wishes?/
Would you accept the proposal?
What would you want, and how much would you be prepared to risk, if you did?

I for one would never risk any desire to be fulfilled by the Demons, no matter which one is (by means of name), or any sigil whatsoever.

Especially if we talk about Sartael, which although a minor demon, still it is worth noting how his name is also related to Sathariel / The Concelears in the Qliphoth. I would not risk my soul, or anything else related to Faustian bargain style for any wishes, no matter how flawless that wish would be.

And, as a conclusion, dare I ask this question: If the Demon told you to do anything harmful or spread lies, etc, would that thing be worth any of your dignity / relations / general life?

 

[Eldros]

I for one would never risk any desire to be fulfilled by the Demons, no matter which one is (by means of name), or any sigil whatsoever.

Especially if we talk about Sartael, which although a minor demon, still it is worth noting how his name is also related to Sathariel / The Concelears in the Qliphoth. I would not risk my soul, or anything else related to Faustian bargain style for any wishes, no matter how flawless that wish would be.

And, as a conclusion, dare I ask this question: If the Demon told you to do anything harmful or spread lies, etc, would that thing be worth any of your dignity / relations / general life?

Well, dear colleague, I can only thank you for taking the time to answer - and perhaps even more so because you were the only one who did.
With so many topics being thrown around in the tavern, I suppose I should point out that some of the greatest ideas and works were born in taverns, among friends, over a glass of something strong.
Writers and thinkers have always found a little inspiration there.
To answer your question, I would never sell my soul or bend my morals or principles for a wish.
The whole thing was simply a thought experiment - I was curious how people would approach a deal where the wishes are guaranteed, but the price is unknown..
And yes, if the favor involved harming someeone or acting against my values, I'd simply refuse.
No wish would be worth that.

 

[Nembra]

I mean, this would be a very dumb demon since you can easily use one of the wishes to get out of giving him anything. Unfortunately I've never met one that stupid.

 

[12RelayT10]

I think you overlooked one thing: if you don’t take the deal, all your loved ones and all your descendants will suffer forever. So, what do you do?

 

[Eldros]

I mean, this would be a very dumb demon since you can easily use one of the wishes to get out of giving him anything. Unfortunately I've never met one that stupid.

Well, but you're thinking that one of my wishes can end the deal entirely.
I didn't say he lets me change the terms of our agreement; in fact, I said he does exactly what I ask for.
Also, that would be the most absurd aspect of the case if the demon's only defense was "you could wish your way out of it."
The true problem is why is he willing to grant me three unrestricted wishes in exchange for my small favor...

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:37 AM

I think you overlooked one thing: if you don’t take the deal, all your loved ones and all your descendants will suffer forever. So, what do you do?

Then I’m probably not taking the deal.
If a demon has to threaten my loved ones just because I said no, that tells me pretty much everything I need to know about his idea of a “modest” favor.

 

[Nembra]

Well, but you're thinking that one of my wishes can end the deal entirely.
I didn't say he lets me change the terms of our agreement; in fact, I said he does exactly what I ask for.
Also, that would be the most absurd aspect of the case if the demon's only defense was "you could wish your way out of it."
The true problem is why is he willing to grant me three unrestricted wishes in exchange for my small favor...

I can wish to know that. In fact I can wish to both read and control his thoughts. That's the problem with wishes, you can always break the system.

 

[Eldros]

I can wish to know that. In fact I can wish to both read and control his thoughts. That's the problem with wishes, you can always break the system.

I get it…If wishes are really infinite, you can just wish to know exactly what the favor is, what Sartael wants, whether he’s lying, etc.
.At that point you have almost broken the dilemma.
My idea is, before I use a wish to get rid of all the uncertainty, I'd be asking myself why a demon is offering me three unlimited wishes in return for one "modest" favor in the first place./
But yeah, you've found the obvious loop hole. You got me on that one..

 

[Nembra]

I get it…If wishes are really infinite, you can just wish to know exactly what the favor is, what Sartael wants, whether he’s lying, etc.
.At that point you have almost broken the dilemma.
My idea is, before I use a wish to get rid of all the uncertainty, I'd be asking myself why a demon is offering me three unlimited wishes in return for one "modest" favor in the first place./
But yeah, you've found the obvious loop hole. You got me on that one..

I mean, if we do want to go down that route, giving someone what he wants will inevitably ruin him one way or another, so it might be just that.

 

[Eldros]

I mean, if we do want to go down that route, giving someone what he wants will inevitably ruin him one way or another, so it might be just that.

Yeah, that's a lot more interesting. Then the wishes themselves are the trap, and the favor is almost irrelevant..
But now I'm curious - do you mean getting everything I want would actually ruin me, or that I'd just end up becoming someone I don't like?/

 

[Nembra]

Yeah, that's a lot more interesting. Then the wishes themselves are the trap, and the favor is almost irrelevant..
But now I'm curious - do you mean getting everything I want would actually ruin me, or that I'd just end up becoming someone I don't like?/

One of the core problems of being a human being is that nobody has a good idea what's good for them, that is: what would make them happy. Normally the world pushes back against our mistaken projects, confronting, revealing and refining our self-perceptions. To grant a wish is to smash someone face-first against their own deficiency at terminal velocity, and there is no one who would survive that impact.

 

[12RelayT10]

Then I’m probably not taking the deal.
If a demon has to threaten my loved ones just because I said no, that tells me pretty much everything I need to know about his idea of a “modest” favor.

You might be right to “pretend” you don’t understand. What I’m pointing at is the fact that you are already too late. It was never about a small favor, you see, that is how magicians work.

 

[Eldros]

One of the core problems of being a human being is that nobody has a good idea what's good for them, that is: what would make them happy. Normally the world pushes back against our mistaken projects, confronting, revealing and refining our self-perceptions. To grant a wish is to smash someone face-first against their own deficiency at terminal velocity, and there is no one who would survive that impact.

So the demon's real trick is just taking us at our word.
He gives us exactly what we ask for and lets us figure out, usually too late,, that we didn't really know what we wanted in the first place.
Which makes me wonder if the really dangerous wish isn't - give me everything I want, but - give me what I actually need.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:18 PM

You might be right to “pretend” you don’t understand. What I’m pointing at is the fact that you are already too late. It was never about a small favor, you see, that is how magicians work.

I see... I'm obviously already involved by the time I understand there was a deception.

OK. Still, I believe I will still reject the offer. It's probably best to avoid playing certain games.