satanism

[nunaphael]

The pleasure is mine. Now I know why your posts always have this beige, hazy quality to them. I don't see why would you want to do others such a disserveice though.

Neither do I. I leave that up to you, and them.

 

[Accipeveldare]

what’s ur personal opinion on the back ground/history of anticosmic satanism

Its an offshoot of gnosticism. But not a great one. Its just crappy, misinterpreted gnostic principles mixed with edgy imagery.

 

[Frater M.M.]

My understanding of the TotBL material is that they are really about that true Gnostic escape from creation into the pre-Cosmic condition. They don't seem to value individual existence and are fully set on reuniting with Ain. In brief it's Gnosticism married to modern anti-natalist thought.

I like it. People claiming it's edgy are being narrow-minded, frankly. They see it as dualistic, so they reject what they dont understand. It's not dualistic whatsoever. It is perhaps one of the few non-dualistic currents that exist today. It is going beyond picking sides in anything that occurs in this world, and it only depresses those who see it as depressing because they are attached to their ego. Simple as. No shame in being attached to your ego, I am not saying this to try and sound superior. It just is what it is. World affirming versus world denying. People who affirm this world have absolutely no choice but to obey the rational daimon in their heads that compells them to denounce anti-cosmic currents. Because they are a threat. They are completely polar. But "dualism" is one end of that polarity, and it only exists here, in this time and place, in this ego, in this reality. It does not exist "outside" or "beyond" this universe. The goal is to reach that state of non-being and become transformed by it into something "else" that is not part of this world and bares no resemblance to anything within it.

Ok, so what is exactly this complaint about the cosmos or creation tho?

Let's say we have a male called Bob. He's a firefighter, 6' tall with red hair, married with 2 kids, has a parent dying of cancer, likes to go to baseball games. What are his complaints as an anti-cosmic satanist?

[1] This universe is unfair. Ppl shouldn't get sick and die or be able to be burned alive in fires?

[2] Society is limiting. Ppl should be able to be fire fighters one day and accountants the next? Ppl should be able to be married one day, but have a night off the next and go to singles bars (if these still exist) and pick up women? Ppl should be able to walk nude in public, smoke crack in Chuckie Cheese or steal things from shops with no consequences?

[3] The programmed mind is limiting. Ppl's minds/behaviours or even personalities shouldn't be programmed by TV/internet, advertisers, politicians, religions etc. Ppl should be allowed to follow their innate natures or even go back to being blank slates (if that's an option) and choose to get married or become firefighters on a whim?

[4] Universal physical laws are limiting. Ppl should be able to float/fly or teleport or travel FTL.

[5] Universal logic is limiting. Ppl should be able to simultaneously have red/black/brown/blonde hair, be 6'/5'/4' tall, be male and female, have children and not have them.

[6] Differentiation is limiting. There shouldn't even be a Bob or hair or color or wives or children or fires or planets or anything for Bob to complain about. There should just be a return to some kind of undifferentiated "Ainic condition" prior to creation differentiating it into beings and things?

 

[Soror Epihania]

Ok, so what is exactly this complaint about the cosmos or creation tho?

Let's say we have a male called Bob. He's a firefighter, 6' tall with red hair, married with 2 kids, has a parent dying of cancer, likes to go to baseball games. What are his complaints as an anti-cosmic satanist?

[1] This universe is unfair. Ppl shouldn't get sick and die or be able to be burned alive in fires?

[2] Society is limiting. Ppl should be able to be fire fighters one day and accountants the next? Ppl should be able to be married one day, but have a night off the next and go to singles bars (if these still exist) and pick up women? Ppl should be able to walk nude in public, smoke crack in Chuckie Cheese or steal things from shops with no consequences?

[3] The programmed mind is limiting. Ppl's minds/behaviours or even personalities shouldn't be programmed by TV/internet, advertisers, politicians, religions etc. Ppl should be allowed to follow their innate natures or even go back to being blank slates (if that's an option) and choose to get married or become firefighters on a whim?

[4] Universal physical laws are limiting. Ppl should be able to float/fly or teleport or travel FTL.

[5] Universal logic is limiting. Ppl should be able to simultaneously have red/black/brown/blonde hair, be 6'/5'/4' tall, be male and female, have children and not have them.

[6] Differentiation is limiting. There shouldn't even be a Bob or hair or color or wives or children or fires or planets or anything for Bob to complain about. There should just be a return to some kind of undifferentiated "Ainic condition" prior to creation differentiating it into beings and things?

I mean, I'm with you guy. I think this rage against the structure of reality ignores the fact that limitation and negation of endless potential is a necessary prerequisite to manifestation. We can only get together and discuss these thoughts about return to undifferentiation because we've all been limited by embodiment in creatures that have capacity to reason. The limitations of language give us agreed-upon structures with which to communicate with each other. I think the kind of total negation the anti-cosmic goes for has a hugely valid apophatic value that can be directed towards mystical work but to carry that forward as the end goal in-itself seems like a contradiction.

@nunaphael Isn't wrong, our point of divergence is that I think Life and manifestation are holy and worth affirming and they don't, fair enough. We're different people with different paths.

 

[Frater M.M.]

I mean, I'm with you guy. I think this rage against the structure of reality ignores the fact that limitation and negation of endless potential is a necessary prerequisite to manifestation. We can only get together and discuss these thoughts about return to undifferentiation because we've all been limited by embodiment in creatures that have capacity to reason. The limitations of language give us agreed-upon structures with which to communicate with each other. I think the kind of total negation the anti-cosmic goes for has a hugely valid apophatic value that can be directed towards mystical work but to carry that forward as the end goal in-itself seems like a contradiction.

@nunaphael Isn't wrong, our point of divergence is that I think Life and manifestation are holy and worth affirming and they don't, fair enough. We're different people with different paths.

Good reply. I guess what I was trying understand was if AC satanism was prescriptive/diagnostic like Buddhism was. That is, life is unfair and dissatisfying, etc. [1] - [5], therefore solution is [6].

If AC satanism just leaps straight to [6], I guess there's not a lot left to say other than let's agree to disagree (for my part).

It reminds of the discussion on the post-nihilism thread:

In reality, it seems similar to your [nunaphael's] post-nihilism - "There's no intrinsic meaning, so you have to find a way to come to terms with that and carry on"

Why do I, though? What value is there in carrying on? Could I not arbitrarily choose to value rotting in place then?

My response to Nembra was I have tried many times to behave against my nature in the past. My resulting experience has taught me that it has certain values at bedrock that are counter to rotting in place and it makes me miserable when I go against them. I don't personally need a cosmic commandment or universal meaning in order to value not rotting away.

 

[MorganBlack]

I was pretty Luciferian when in my early 20's - not that I took him literally, being raised pretty secular.

But that material was what just what was around that I could use to deal with my situation. I also grew up a pretty in a harsh and violent time and place, and I still value the quality of existence we call variously Horus / Lucifer / the "pagan" warlord spirit (as mode, archetype) to give me the drive I needed to go out into the world and find my place in it. In the video game industry, in tech.

There is a spiritual path to the Daimonic / Underworld / Chthonic / Land of the Dead, but it doesn't need all this inverted "Satanic" symbolism attached to it. It is already spooky. The Underworld does not need cartoonish inverted Christian symbolism to be dark. It is the Dark.

You can make a False Self out of true things just as much as false things.

The Anti-Cosmic LHP is still transcendentalist underneath and full of Manichaean dualism. They are trying to escape the Daimonic as they steal their imagery from the witches, brujos, and sorcerers who live this path. The Daimonic often manifests as the raw forces of nature themselves. Not as spirits who command those forces, but as the forces in their personal, embodied, and volitional, Sublunar image-creating aspect.

They are closer to the Greek daimon than to the Christian "demon." And this path is also closer to the pre-modern experience of nature, where generation, decay, necessity, will, and strife are not symbolic abstractions arrayed up or down a Kircher Tree of Life diagram. They are powers, forces you meet, negotiate with, and are subject to some of them.

It started out fine. Anton was in on the joke. None of the LHP theater comes from the traditions they appropriate from. It is stolen valor.

Poets, artists, creators, lovers - and all who are touched or driven by passions - are people of he Daimonic. We are all a bit fae and strange. Not these internet normies wearing our personalities as a pose. Just ask them what art they have made? What symphonies they have composed? Where are their painting they must make. What poems they have written? What new dishes or software they have invented? Usually none. Or badly. They honestly don't give a shit enough to care, and so can flop around with no spine or anything they truly love.

The Daimonic in nature is the compulsion to become. It is the oak forcing itself out of the acorn, the species driving itself forward, the body insisting on its own appetites. Fate is the allotment assigned to each being.

This is Iamblichus again: the daimon assigned at nativity is your Fate, your portion, the thread measured out for you. To meet the Daimonic is to meet the forces that make your soul, that sustain your soul, and that will consume you. You do not escape them. You learn their names. You learn to work with them. And if you are lucky, you come back with something worth bringing.

But The Daimonic is not a costume and it is is not an identity. And I fucking swear it is not a rebellion against a God they claim not to believe in. It is the raw force of Sublunar reality itself. As far as I have been able to map them into : Nature, Fate and Necessity, Generation and Decay, Need and Strife, Eros, Time, Chance / Fortune, Will / Thumos, and then Silence - to not forget who you are, and find your way back to God.

So you do not escape it except through Silence, peace, and calm, and for fucks sake, do not invert it and call it liberation. You meet it. You learn its names, and you negotiate with it. You are subject to some of it. And if you are lucky - if you have done the work, if you have not clung - then you might come back with something worth bringing.

The rest of that stuff is just for failed theater kids who were never true creatives to begin with.

 

[Soror Epihania]

My response to Nembra was I have tried many times to behave against my nature in the past. My resulting experience has taught me that it has certain values at bedrock that are counter to rotting in place and it makes me miserable when I go against them. I don't personally need a cosmic commandment or universal meaning in order to value not rotting away.

I agree. I posted elsewhere on this forum that life is its own meaning.

I was pretty Luciferian when in my early 20's - not that I took him literally, being raised pretty secular.

But that material was what just what was around that I could use to deal with my situation. I also grew up a pretty in a harsh and violent time and place, and I still value the quality of existence we call variously Horus / Lucifer / the "pagan" warlord spirit (as mode, archetype) to give me the drive I needed to go out into the world and find my place in it. In the video game industry, in tech.

There is a spiritual path to the Daimonic / Underworld / Chthonic / Land of the Dead, but it doesn't need all this inverted "Satanic" symbolism attached to it. It is already spooky. The Underworld does not need cartoonish inverted Christian symbolism to be dark. It is the Dark.

You can make a False Self out of true things just as much as false things.

The Anti-Cosmic LHP is still transcendentalist underneath and full of Manichaean dualism. They are trying to escape the Daimonic as they steal their imagery from the witches, brujos, and sorcerers who live this path. The Daimonic often manifests as the raw forces of nature themselves. Not as spirits who command those forces, but as the forces in their personal, embodied, and volitional, Sublunar image-creating aspect.

They are closer to the Greek daimon than to the Christian "demon." And this path is also closer to the pre-modern experience of nature, where generation, decay, necessity, will, and strife are not symbolic abstractions arrayed up or down a Kircher Tree of Life diagram. They are powers, forces you meet, negotiate with, and are subject to some of them.

It started out fine. Anton was in on the joke. None of the LHP theater comes from the traditions they appropriate from. It is stolen valor.

Poets, artists, creators, lovers - and all who are touched or driven by passions - are people of he Daimonic. We are all a bit fae and strange. Not these internet normies wearing our personalities as a pose. Just ask them what art they have made? What symphonies they have composed? Where are their painting they must make. What poems they have written? What new dishes or software they have invented? Usually none. Or badly. They honestly don't give a shit enough to care, and so can flop around with no spine or anything they truly love.

The Daimonic in nature is the compulsion to become. It is the oak forcing itself out of the acorn, the species driving itself forward, the body insisting on its own appetites. Fate is the allotment assigned to each being.

This is Iamblichus again: the daimon assigned at nativity is your Fate, your portion, the thread measured out for you. To meet the Daimonic is to meet the forces that make your soul, that sustain your soul, and that will consume you. You do not escape them. You learn their names. You learn to work with them. And if you are lucky, you come back with something worth bringing.

But The Daimonic is not a costume and it is is not an identity. And I fucking swear it is not a rebellion against a God they claim not to believe in. It is the raw force of Sublunar reality itself. As far as I have been able to map them into : Nature, Fate and Necessity, Generation and Decay, Need and Strife, Eros, Time, Chance / Fortune, Will / Thumos, and then Silence - to not forget who you are, and find your way back to God.

So you do not escape it except through Silence, peace, and calm, and for fucks sake, do not invert it and call it liberation. You meet it. You learn its names, and you negotiate with it. You are subject to some of it. And if you are lucky - if you have done the work, if you have not clung - then you might come back with something worth bringing.

The rest of that stuff is just for failed theater kids who were never true creatives to begin with.

Damn...that's fire. Though I will say some of the Black Metal from the anti-cosmic guys is excellent.

 

[MorganBlack]

Though I will say some of the Black Metal from the anti-cosmic guys is excellent.

Oh neat!

In ceremony when I move from entreating the Above to down into the Below, I find my invocations always seem to slide into a Peter Murphy sneer. But I'm Gen-X, and it's probably a bit of a holder-over from my wayward youth.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Soror Epihania]

Oh neat!

In ceremony when I move from entreating the Above to down into the Below, I find my invocations always seem to slide into a Peter Murphy sneer. But I'm Gen-X, and it's probably a bit of a holder-over from my wayward youth.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

That's great. Love Bauhaus.

Jon Nodtveidt of Dissection was one of the original MLO guys. Absolutely beastly guitarist. His compositions are brilliant. Check it:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

But I think your point holds. Dissection was fired by the passion he felt for Satanic chaos, a passion that required the limitation and embodiment Nodtveidt attempted to escape from, to the point of taking his own life in 2007.

 

[nunaphael]

Ok, so what is exactly this complaint about the cosmos or creation tho?

I have no complaint. I'm not like other anti-cosmic satanists. Frankly, I'm not even a satanist. I don't worship Lucifer or give a shit about Satan. I mean, don't get me wrong, Milton wrote a really good book. Paradise Lost was great, better than most of the Holy Bible for sure. But my world is colored by norse mythology and scandinavian folk lore mostly. Think "Ragnarok" and "Odin's hubris" leading to his own inevitable demise and that sort of thing. I see a purpose for existence, but part of that implicit purpose is it's constant destruction and renewal. I don't see that as a bad thing, and I don't "hate" the world. I don't "hate" anything, which actually bothers a lot of people. I mildly dislike certain things, or take mild pleasure in other things, but otherwise I'm extremely ambivalent to almost everything. Especially geopolitics and anything having to do with AI. I have no skin in any game, so you can talk to me about pretty much whatever you want and I can just process it and bounce back off of whatever I've encountered in my life without filtering any of it. If I "hate" anything in life, it's picking sides in conflicts. Most of the time, I'm not even trying to be reasonable, in fact, I'm not even trying to be helpful. I'm an artist, I just want to make art, man. I cope by practicing caligraphy, painting, drawing, singing, dancing, and going to improv acting nights on saturdays. I just want to hear what people have to say, genuinely, because it adds to my own experience of life in general, gives me another piece of the puzzle to contemplate.

Like, I thought all of this was just a conversation, not a court room.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:34 PM

This is Iamblichus again: the daimon assigned at nativity is your Fate, your portion, the thread measured out for you. To meet the Daimonic is to meet the forces that make your soul, that sustain your soul, and that will consume you. You do not escape them. You learn their names. You learn to work with them. And if you are lucky, you come back with something worth bringing.

Funny you mention Iamblichus in this context, I made a post, one of the first posts I ever made on this forum actually, naming him as one of my biggest influencers in my life, in his book De Mysteriis. Thank you for once again echoing and validating things I've been feeling for a long time and confirming my decision to join this community was a good move.

Book Discussion - Do you believe in life changing books in the occult

While walking this path, i found some books that was very interesting and i can call as life changing, in terms of results not wishful thinking and imagination, such as reality transurfing very good book. but in relation to Magic and working with Demons i still did not come across an impressive...

wizardforums.com

 

[MorganBlack]

Absolutely beastly guitarist. His compositions are brilliant. Check it:

Daaaamn! Great stuff.

Totally agreed.

All creatives know we don't 'transcend' Saturn / Necessity / the Demiurge (in my mythic framework) / Limitation / Boundaries / Discipline . We need to work with "him" to manifest and crystalize our inner creativity into the world.

"The more art is controlled, limited, worked over, the more it is free.
Igor Stravinsky

"Art consists in limitation. The most beautiful part of every picture is the frame."
G.K. Chesterton

Basically if you draw a giraffe, you must draw him with a long neck. If you want to "free yourself " from the tyranny of the giraffe, and want to draw them with a short neck ,or no neck, or three necks to "liberate the neck" , you will really find that you are not free to draw a giraffe at all.

 

[Frater M.M.]

I have no complaint. I'm not like other anti-cosmic satanists. Frankly, I'm not even a satanist. I don't worship Lucifer or give a shit about Satan. I mean, don't get me wrong, Milton wrote a really good book. Paradise Lost was great, better than most of the Holy Bible for sure. But my world is colored by norse mythology and scandinavian folk lore mostly. Think "Ragnarok" and "Odin's hubris" leading to his own inevitable demise and that sort of thing. I see a purpose for existence, but part of that implicit purpose is it's constant destruction and renewal. I don't see that as a bad thing, and I don't "hate" the world. I don't "hate" anything, which actually bothers a lot of people. I mildly dislike certain things, or take mild pleasure in other things, but otherwise I'm extremely ambivalent to almost everything. Especially geopolitics and anything having to do with AI. I have no skin in any game, so you can talk to me about pretty much whatever you want and I can just process it and bounce back off of whatever I've encountered in my life without filtering any of it. If I "hate" anything in life, it's picking sides in conflicts. Most of the time, I'm not even trying to be reasonable, in fact, I'm not even trying to be helpful. I'm an artist, I just want to make art, man. I cope by practicing caligraphy, painting, drawing, singing, dancing, and going to improv acting nights on saturdays. I just want to hear what people have to say, genuinely, because it adds to my own experience of life in general, gives me another piece of the puzzle to contemplate.

Like, I thought all of this was just a conversation, not a court room.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify your position. I was mainly trying to understand AC satanism better, and I thought you and Soror Epihania had more insight into it than I did, so I may have been treating some of what you said as more representative of 218 etc. than you actually intended.

I wasn't trying to put you personally on trial. Apologies if I came across like that. If anything, I tend to ask people lots of questions when I find them or their perspective interesting.

 

[nunaphael]

Thanks for taking the time to clarify your position. I was mainly trying to understand AC satanism better, and I thought you and Soror Epihania had more insight into it than I did, so I may have been treating some of what you said as more representative of 218 etc. than you actually intended.

I wasn't trying to put you personally on trial. Apologies if I came across like that. If anything, I tend to ask people lots of questions when I find them or their perspective interesting.

Nah, you're good. I always appreciate your posts and enjoy reading them by the way. And a lot of it if my fault for even throwing my lot in with a sub-culture that gets a lot of flak. It is what it is, I was prepared for it, but it's always a little shocking that it gets such an intense reaction from people right away. It's my own inexperience really, I may be 43, but that's not that old. I'm "middle-aged" not old. I'm not that wise yet. The only reason I'm not getting into as much trouble as I did when I was a kid is because I have health problems now and I'm too tired for that crap anymore. Like I said, I just wanna create artwork and improve as an artist. I feel like my artwork is the portal through which the entities I have formed a relationship with over these past 17 years can be a deeper part of my life and it's a nice feeling. When I'm painting, I sometimes imagine I can actually hear them whispering suggestions to me, or even guiding my brush and moving my hand for me. Then again, I'm schizophrenic so, obviously I'm supposed to believe I'm "crazy" and should just be taking my Seroquel every day. Even though I've been off of it for 6 years now and doing better than ever before.

That's what I was trying to emphasize in my post before about like, I really believe you have to be a person who is deeply disturbed, hurt, traumatized, labeled crazy, abused, or whatever, to even be of the sort of mentality where you would have any reason to be interested in anything "anti-cosmic" in the first place. I was in a really dark place when I was younger, and that's what brought me to this stuff. And initially, I was the text-book clown you guys are describing. I took it way too seriously, and it was all an act, a license to get my "revenge" on the world, like the childish, hurt, animal that I was. And it took me a long, long time to really mellow the fuck out and move past that. I had a near death experience I have described in detail in my journal post "Building Characters", which I won't get into here. It was a suicide attempt that I somehow survived, and that was my wake up call. I needed that experience to really be transformed and break out of the rut I was in before. I ws letting my mental illness define me, letting the sexual and physical abuse and abandonment of my childhood control my body, my mind, my dreams, everything about me was in the grip of those events and the entities that were involved in them. It literally cost me my "life", in a sense. my old life. My old self had to die, and it did.

So that's what "nothingness" is to me. It's the near death experience I had to go through because I was so fucking stupid and so mixed up and so lost that it was either that or not coming back at all. So I guess I decided to "come back" because this place isn't so bad after all, and there's a purpose for me here, and that's what took me a long time to grasp. Now I get it, and I can look back at my past behavior and even see the context for why it had to happen, why everything has been following this particular sequence, and I don't feel so lost anymore. I feel like I receive guidance from the spirits I work with now, so I don't worry about everything as much. I feel a peace in my life that's hard to describe. Sometimes I smile for no reason at all when I'm sipping my coffee and reading this forum.

I'm smiling right now and I'm not even sure why.