[Opinion] Thelema.. Is it worth studying?

[Accipeveldare]

I have recently began looking into the Thelemic works to see if I can incorporate any of it into my own practices. Does anybody have any experience with this particular system?

 

[Firetree]

I have recently began looking into the Thelemic works to see if I can incorporate any of it into my own practices. Does anybody have any experience with this particular system?

Yes , in study and practice .

One thing about it is , it is a fairly loose definition and basically depends on individual interpretation . It can be on many different levels as well . Ie. what constitutes a 'Thelemic system ' ? Again , there is no 'authority' to dictate that .

There is the basic Thelemic 'cosmology ' / 'magical view of the universe ' one might choose to ascibe to .

There is the Book of the Law that is wonderfully infamous for all sorts of reasons . . . and people 'winging it' resulting in all sorts of different results .

There are formal pathways related to expressions of Thelema ; Liturgical as in the E.G.C. Mass . There are (perhaps equivalent to Monks - those that undertake 'Holy Orders' ) 'Orders' and people in these in the initiatory bodies like the O.T.O.

There are some books and rituals that might relate to Thelema . There are some that I would specifically relate to it , eg 'Liber NV ' , but this is serious and experienced practice , better to start with (if you have the preliminary experience and understanding of what you are doing ) Liber Resh . Before that all the 'preliminary stuff'

I would say for the best results ; the O.T.O initiation system of graded levels of development , with accompanying ritual practices .


Some things about it that I am totally into is the Prime axioms ; 'True Will ' ( which is not original to Crowley , by the way , its a crucial part of all systems that the west seems to have lost ! Its in ancient Zoroastrianism as Khvarenah - basically, the whole reason you are here and what you are : 'Love is the Law ' : Every Man and every Woman is a Star ! : Ch 1 in the Book of the Law ( me being a 'Goddess type of guy ' ) .

Here is a sample teaching document (its actually lifted from G.D. but its still used )

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- cool stuff , IMO .

 

[BitterToSweet]

Im also new to the thelema magickal system, i started my study of Thelema last year. But.. i can say that thelemic morality and ethics alone improved my life by a lot. It made a huge difference in how i perceive myself and the world around me.

And yes, you can study and incoporate it into your own practices, thats totally fine. I mean, If you accept the law of thelema you are already a thelemite

chapter 1.
31. "But she said: the ordeals I write not: the rituals shall be half known and half concealed: the Law is for all"

 

[sahgwa]

I have recently began looking into the Thelemic works to see if I can incorporate any of it into my own practices. Does anybody have any experience with this particular system?

Yes for sure - but it is ultimately about renouncing your current incarnation's ego, in favour of the Higher Self.
I am in A.:.A.:.
We have our 'feet in the Hells and our heads in the Heavens'
Nothing is forbidden but everything is to be ultimately renounced in a little will versus big Will fashion.
I call it a mix of LHP and RHP

 

[Accipeveldare]

Yes for sure - but it is ultimately about renouncing your current incarnation's ego, in favour of the Higher Self.
I am in A.:.A.:.
We have our 'feet in the Hells and our heads in the Heavens'
Nothing is forbidden but everything is to be ultimately renounced in a little will versus big Will fashion.
I call it a mix of LHP and RHP

Sounds like my cup of tea. I will look into it further

 

[sahgwa]

Sounds like my cup of tea. I will look into it further

Let me know if you have any questions, it would be good for me too

 

[Accipeveldare]

Let me know if you have any questions, it would be good for me too

Could you tell me some about the Cosmology and how Ego-Softening/Death is achieved within the framework?

 

[sahgwa]

Could you tell me some about the Cosmology and how Ego-Softening/Death is achieved within the framework?

It follows the format of the Tree of Life, which includes 10 sephiroth and 'grades' in the system. In my humble opinion the average uninitiate is not really on the tree, they are 'next to' Malkuth. You could place the Student and Probationer both there.
Upon initiation and completing your 2 exams and studies for the 2 preliminary 'grades' you assume the first Grade of Neophyte at Malkuth , 1=10
That is to say at 'first /lower' sephiroth and controlled by Kether (tenth/last sephiroth). The traditional sign has a degree and a square. 1o=10[]

As you 'refine' your vibrations using meditation/mysticism, yoga, and ritual, transmuting your daily life into something 'higher', into a higher frequency, closer to a more Divine or Creator frequency your 'baseline frequency' raises and your 'home' sephiroth would move up the Tree.

At Tiphareth 5=6 you 'meet' your Higher Self/Holy Guardian Angel and have Knowledge and Conversation of/with them.
This is where you are to discover your True Will but your journey is not over.

After this you will eventually attempt to Cross the Abyss , often said to be at Daath, the 11th and 'non' or 'hidden' Sephiroth.
The Abyss is phrased nicely in the wikipedia ' a metaphysical concept that signifies the great chasm or void separating the manifest world from its divine source'

You would only truly be ready to 'cross' if you feel all of your hard Work and practises have delivered you from 'lust of result' and from 'clinging' , from identification with any and any other thing.
All opposites must be reconciled.

Its largely Daoist and about finding Harmony and Harmonics.

Hopefully this makes some kind of sense, i am just improvising my answer based on my understanding and experience.

 

[Firetree]

Yes for sure - but it is ultimately about renouncing your current incarnation's ego, in favour of the Higher Self.
I am in A.:.A.:.
We have our 'feet in the Hells and our heads in the Heavens'
Nothing is forbidden but everything is to be ultimately renounced in a little will versus big Will fashion.
I call it a mix of LHP and RHP

I am a little confused as to why its LHP as it also was called 'The Holy Magick of Light ' and designated 'white school' .

 

[sahgwa]

I am a little confused as to why its LHP as it also was called 'The Holy Magick of Light ' and designated 'white school' .

Crowley was often confused about his own creation, as anyone would be with such a responsibility. But I recall not just the quote I used above, but also in his essay on the Three Schools of Magick he states that Thelema is a yellow school as it uses pieces of everything .
There is in his philosophy, white, yellow, and black.
You could also view it as the evolution of a human (?) from Black/animalistic/malkuthian to Yellow/humane/going to angelic to White/divine/godly. ?
hmm
This is all off the top of my head, but this letter is useful I cannot read right now:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Firetree]

It follows the format of the Tree of Life, which includes 10 sephiroth and 'grades' in the system. In my humble opinion the average uninitiate is not really on the tree, they are 'next to' Malkuth. You could place the Student and Probationer both there.
Upon initiation and completing your 2 exams and studies for the 2 preliminary 'grades' you assume the first Grade of Neophyte at Malkuth , 1=10
That is to say at 'first /lower' sephiroth and controlled by Kether (tenth/last sephiroth). The traditional sign has a degree and a square. 1o=10[]

As you 'refine' your vibrations using meditation/mysticism, yoga, and ritual, transmuting your daily life into something 'higher', into a higher frequency, closer to a more Divine or Creator frequency your 'baseline frequency' raises and your 'home' sephiroth would move up the Tree.

At Tiphareth 5=6 you 'meet' your Higher Self/Holy Guardian Angel and have Knowledge and Conversation of/with them.
This is where you are to discover your True Will but your journey is not over.

After this you will eventually attempt to Cross the Abyss , often said to be at Daath, the 11th and 'non' or 'hidden' Sephiroth.
The Abyss is phrased nicely in the wikipedia ' a metaphysical concept that signifies the great chasm or void separating the manifest world from its divine source'

You would only truly be ready to 'cross' if you feel all of your hard Work and practises have delivered you from 'lust of result' and from 'clinging' , from identification with any and any other thing.
All opposites must be reconciled.

Its largely Daoist and about finding Harmony and Harmonics.

Hopefully this makes some kind of sense, i am just improvising my answer based on my understanding and experience.

I'll use this opportunity to ask ;

are there any good 'Tree of Life' threads about here ? I did a search , nothing really popped up ?

 

[sahgwa]

I'll use this opportunity to ask ;

are there any good 'Tree of Life' threads about here ? I did a search , nothing really popped up ?

Honestly not sure, i only joined recently cuz my other magick forums were very dead. Start a thread or maybe piggy back off a close-ish one?

 

[Firetree]

Crowley was often confused about his own creation, as anyone would be with such a responsibility.

But I recall not just the quote I used above, but also in his essay on the Three Schools of Magick he states that Thelema is a yellow school as it uses pieces of everything .

Certainly , and so is mine ( 'Yellow' in that it is an approach that is best suited by Daoist methods ) but primarily I see it as 'white Gnosticism' , in that it accepts 'direct knowledge / communication' and celebrates life as a positive choice for incarnation . Whereas the back school Gnostic sees life as a lower dirty crass 'fall' that was some unfortunate cosmic event that we are now trapped in and need to escape from .

But, as you say , nothing is wholly one thing only .

There is in his philosophy, white, yellow, and black.
You could also view it as the evolution of a human (?) from Black/animalistic/malkuthian to Yellow/humane/going to angelic to White/divine/godly. ?
hmm
This is all off the top of my head, but this letter is useful I cannot read right now:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

... and , by the way , why is Wizard forum's logo the Taijitu ?

 

[Accipeveldare]

Honestly not sure, i only joined recently cuz my other magick forums were very dead. Start a thread or maybe piggy back off a close-ish one?

Did you come from E-Cauldron too?

 

[sahgwa]

Did you come from E-Cauldron too?

No, originally LAShTAL but that is closed and it never should have been.

Post automatically merged: 32 minutes ago

Certainly , and so is mine ( 'Yellow' in that it is an approach that is best suited by Daoist methods ) but primarily I see it as 'white Gnosticism' , in that it accepts 'direct knowledge / communication' and celebrates life as a positive choice for incarnation . Whereas the back school Gnostic sees life as a lower dirty crass 'fall' that was some unfortunate cosmic event that we are now trapped in and need to escape from .

But, as you say , nothing is wholly one thing only .



... and , by the way , why is Wizard forum's logo the Taijitu ?

Yes I really abhor the recent 'weakness' and 'giving up' of a lot of kids who say they know Gnosticism, and agree with it, when it's really only a tiny parcel. Life is precious and everything points to that. Even if the material creator of our particular planet was an 'idiot'
It begs to debate but i dont ascribe to a negative defeatist escapist world view. its not productive for one thing.

 

[Accipeveldare]

No, originally LAShTAL but that is closed and it never should have been.

Post automatically merged: 32 minutes ago

Yes I really abhor the recent 'weakness' and 'giving up' of a lot of kids who say they know Gnosticism, and agree with it, when it's really only a tiny parcel. Life is precious and everything points to that. Even if the material creator of our particular planet was an 'idiot'
It begs to debate but i dont ascribe to a negative defeatist escapist world view. its not productive for one thing.

Life is just as important as whatever comes after death, no matter what it is. That is a fact, not an opinion. Every system i have come across has pointed to that same universal truth. I am not a master of the occult or at the level of a monk by any means. But I have gained a lot of insight from the exploration i have done so far