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[Opinion] Thelema.. Is it worth studying?

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sahgwa

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You know what I find most interesting in what you wrote?
Not the multitasking, not the sword-juggling (although that visual is gold), not even the student stories.
It’s the underlying assumption that being “multi-skilled” is just the default state of a magician.

Most people compartmentalize: magic here, mundane life there.

But you treat skill as an ecosystem — one discipline feeding another, rhythm shaping will, will shaping perception, perception shaping magic.

That’s not common.

That’s architecture.

And honestly, I think that’s why people get intimidated or offended.

They see range and assume arrogance.

I see coherence.

Also — your confusion with the zodiac signs?

That’s the most relatable thing I’ve read all week.
I think that if you get to a certain state of practise, or if you are lucky ? enough to start with a more mystic stance ( I started with Daoist Yoga they called it), with mindfulness, etc every action is a magickal action. Its about breathing and attention, focus patience and energy. :)
Even when typing up emails.
 

Robert Ramsay

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I think that if you get to a certain state of practise, or if you are lucky ? enough to start with a more mystic stance ( I started with Daoist Yoga they called it), with mindfulness, etc every action is a magickal action. Its about breathing and attention, focus patience and energy. :)
Even when typing up emails.
"Every intentional action is a magical action" :D

This is the sort of thing I appreciate about Crowley, even if I couldn't be bothered to follow the Thelemic system.
 

sahgwa

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"Every intentional action is a magical action" :D

This is the sort of thing I appreciate about Crowley, even if I couldn't be bothered to follow the Thelemic system.
Yes it's good shit

I. DEFINITION:​

MAGICK is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.
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(Illustration: It is my Will to inform the World of certain facts within my knowledge. I therefore take “magical weapons,” pen, ink, and paper; I write “incantations”—these sentences—in the “magical language” i.e. that which is understood by people I wish to instruct. I call forth “spirits” such as printers, publishers, booksellers, and so forth, and constrain them to convey my message to those people. The composition and distribution is thus an act of MAGICK by which I cause Changes to take place in conformity with my Will.)
 

Robert Ramsay

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Yes it's good shit

I. DEFINITION:​

MAGICK is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.
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(Illustration: It is my Will to inform the World of certain facts within my knowledge. I therefore take “magical weapons,” pen, ink, and paper; I write “incantations”—these sentences—in the “magical language” i.e. that which is understood by people I wish to instruct. I call forth “spirits” such as printers, publishers, booksellers, and so forth, and constrain them to convey my message to those people. The composition and distribution is thus an act of MAGICK by which I cause Changes to take place in conformity with my Will.)
It was one of the inspirations for me - the idea that both magical and normal actions had the same root mechanism somewhere in consciousness.
 

Firetree

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Yes I use that in my RESH as well and if done with full intent and focus (like what Fireborn said , its all about your ATTENTION, where you move the energy and belief etc - creative imagination) you feel your anahata chakra opening and a shaft of light infusing you, shooting down your sahasrara down your spine and binding you to the greater Cosmos. RHK the HGA/ Daimon lives in the heart chakra I think, and when we fully connect with it/him/her there we are ready to move up. But every day (on good days!) it feels like one is coming closer to identification with and realisation as the Angel. Thanks for reminding me to do that this morning I just jumped right into my (mundane) work. ha

...

Love it ! Let's start a Liber Resh thread (if there is not already one to bump )

SOOOOOOO much I got from that practice !
 

A.Nox

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Love it ! Let's start a Liber Resh thread (if there is not already one to bump )

SOOOOOOO much I got from that practice !
If you do open a Liber Resh thread, tag me in — I’m curious to see where you take it.
 

Firetree

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DuQuette(Magick of Thelema) got many starting from "Unity..."
It was better to start at "I am" for me too.

I think also it is because of directions in MTP and the extract in Priest invocation in Gnostic Mass .

In general there's been surprising few other suggestions made public from a group of people who consider themselves experimentative. The attitude towards adjustments from OTO initiated Thelemites has been conservative, dogmatic, orthodox and generally unsupportive unless given an appearance of legitimacy from an authority they recognize. So to those new to it, don't expect a warm reception to unique ideas.

But how can you tell who is an OTO initiated Thelemite ? ;)

I have found that rituals, practices and initiations MUST be taught , like anything else in a standard set context . Then ... when you have learnt to ride your bike , you can AFTER that ; ''' Look ! NO Hands ! '' Maybe even do those amazing crazy flips and stuff . Same with martial arts and .......

One reason is to preserve the original map or form , the other is for your own safety . So , yes, those new to things get frowned upon if they make changes , which can go away from the benefits of practice in the original forms - until you 'find your feet ' .

But you do make a good point about '' appearance of legitimacy from an authority they recognize.'' especially if it is 'in a book ' .


Among the different adorations puzzled out for myself were my nation's anthem after dawn Resh, followed by corresponding meditation.

Sometimes the salutation is simply the a ka dua, sometimes that's the adoration.

Now you have confused me . Your adoration to the sun was your national anthem ? and the adoration came AFTER the dawn resh ( would not that be the 'meditation' ? and the salutation would be the adoration ?

Aside from the dynamics within, there are sections or stages of this ritual , you mention some ; the salutation , the adoration, the meditation . Sure, you are free to mix them up ... but why ?

At some stage some teachers want to hear your 'magical view of the Universe ' how have you put everything together so far ? of course no one view is right . BUT your view should have certain internal consistencies (and self honesty ) to be considered valid .


Sometimes a long ritual starting with I:14(Above the gemmed azure...) as a prelude
Then III:37,38 with Resh proper inserted after "as it is said:" and before "The light is mine"
Followed by an outro of II:17(Hear me, ye people of sighing)
Then excerpts from the corresponding chapter of Liber 718 The Book of Codes.
All sung. Personally identifying parts altered congruently to suit insight into my incarnations.

Sounds good to me . I would be interested in its results for you .

lets start a Resh thread .

These examples are given to help show that Resh is a ritual worth study & practice that anyone determined can unpack and expand upon from its brief description with intimate touches to build a personal relationship.

(y)
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"Every intentional action is a magical action" :D

This is the sort of thing I appreciate about Crowley, even if I couldn't be bothered to follow the Thelemic system.

Bothered too ? :D

I like that . My approach to Thelema is daoistic .... I have to be bothered ... so (in the long run ) , I am not so bothered :)

My motivations are laziness .... if I dont get it right I will have to do it all over again .... so I get fussy and pernickety about stuff :)
 

Accipeveldare

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I have one more question. I have The Book of The Law and The Holy Books of Thelema. However, where do i find the other important texts? If im going to look into this system, id like to do a deep dive. Also, i prefer physical books.
 

Firetree

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I got boxes of them in my shed you can have :D

Or you could look in MTP for recommended reading lists :D :D :D

(laughing because .... well, you will know when you see it ! )

COURSE I. GENERAL READING​


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Accipeveldare

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I got boxes of them in my shed you can have :D

Or you could look in MTP for recommended reading lists :D :D :D

(laughing because .... well, you will know when you see it ! )

COURSE I. GENERAL READING​


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As much as i would happily accept your shed books under different circumstances. I am cautious online and to send them to me you would need my address. However, i greatly appreciate the offer. That link does help grearly though! So thank you!
 

Kepler

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But how can you tell who is an OTO initiated Thelemite ? ;)
When not self identified the recognizable elements show up from 'people teach how they've been taught'.
I have found that rituals, practices and initiations MUST be taught , like anything else in a standard set context . Then ... when you have learnt to ride your bike , you can AFTER that ; ''' Look ! NO Hands ! '' Maybe even do those amazing crazy flips and stuff . Same with martial arts and .......

One reason is to preserve the original map or form , the other is for your own safety . So , yes, those new to things get frowned upon if they make changes , which can go away from the benefits of practice in the original forms - until you 'find your feet ' .

But you do make a good point about '' appearance of legitimacy from an authority they recognize.'' especially if it is 'in a book ' .
I find that set context is for mass processing. It's not individualized, but does greatly benefit those that want to connect to the current without having to make it their always on primary focus in life. Makes it easy for the initiator to just follow a script too. Unfortunately it does inhibit individual expression and self-development for both.
Positions of authority attract the corrupt. A hard set map is a way for the superficial to position themselves as authorities through a set system by abusing it to creating a psychological dependence on approval. Regularly through fear of some kind.
Other downstream effects are insular, such as dogmatism, unless otherwise overcome.

Now you have confused me . Your adoration to the sun was your national anthem ? and the adoration came AFTER the dawn resh ( would not that be the 'meditation' ? and the salutation would be the adoration ?
To clarify the definitions for myself, I define Resh as the Sun salutation followed by an adoration(in the text as taught by a Superior).
With the national anthem, it was as the people of the land towards in recognition through national identity. Collective consciousness experiment.
Originally it was to see if the national current resonated. True North strong and free does. Even the melody, with elements of Mozart's March of the Priests from the Magic Flute does.

Aside from the dynamics within, there are sections or stages of this ritual , you mention some ; the salutation , the adoration, the meditation . Sure, you are free to mix them up ... but why ?
Experimentative. One example of reasoning is given above.
To develop a solar salutation from a modern understanding of the natural world.
Are/were you OTO?

At some stage some teachers want to hear your 'magical view of the Universe ' how have you put everything together so far ? of course no one view is right . BUT your view should have certain internal consistencies (and self honesty ) to be considered valid .
Immanent, hylozioc, hyperdimensional, gravitic(different from Eureka!) linked.

Sounds good to me . I would be interested in its results for you .

lets start a Resh thread .
There's a lot to explore with that ritual.
If there's a way to open it up to general discussion, rather than focusing specifically on deconstructing my work expecting me to defend it, would be more encompassing and open up others to sharing their unique ideas without going off topic.
I had considered a Journal for my modernized solar salutation that recognizes the Earth's solar terminator when I get around to focusing on that. A Resh thread may make that happen sooner.
 

Firetree

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When not self identified the recognizable elements show up from 'people teach how they've been taught'.

I strongly disagree with that one . Well, to qualify , it does not apply to me ,,, and some of my teachers (as I know who and what their teachers were like . However with others I know exactly what you mean .. actually so stuck in that and not be able to 'break out of the box' at all (note I said 'the ' box ... as if the same box goes down the generations .

In all I teach , whether it be magick, martial arts , school teacher , I go by the principle ( that ALL teachers should go by ) that we all have different learning 'styles' and the teacher should be able to detect the students most receptive style and adapt the teachers method to that of the student .

It applies to me as well . I got stuck and mixed up the other day with someone helping me learn an Escima pattern , after I messed up a few times I ; '' Hang on, let me just give things my own name and call them out before the actions ; ' left cross, right cross , right flick- under , right cross, left cross, left flick - under , got it !

In some cases , I will show an original form ... and then show my adaptations .


I find that set context is for mass processing. It's not individualized, but does greatly benefit those that want to connect to the current without having to make it their always on primary focus in life. Makes it easy for the initiator to just follow a script too. Unfortunately it does inhibit individual expression and self-development for both.

They should go hand in hand IMO , teach the skeleton and when it is formed and strong encourage creativity . With some types of people it is best to inform them of this dynamic when they start , others dont need that and others just assume that is the process .

Positions of authority attract the corrupt.

:) Even 'assumed' authority ( meaning , they assumed something about it ) . A 'grass roots' company I was a director of for years was overthrown by dissident rouge and ex-members . They were able to move into positions of directorship and company officers . Within a few months the smirks of victory wer wiped from their faces ..... ''Hey ! This isnt a position of power ! We have to do all this work and hassle for free for all these other people . ''

:)


house-on-haunted-hill-fredrick-loren-qrpbarty3msdu5ddj9imo4er6jmgogchyxw1sziysw.png


'' Ohhhhh .... such delightful schadenfreude ! ''


A hard set map is a way for the superficial to position themselves as authorities through a set system by abusing it to creating a psychological dependence on approval. Regularly through fear of some kind.
Other downstream effects are insular, such as dogmatism, unless otherwise overcome.

Yes, of course, like anything, there are pitfalls , alternative ? No maps ? No instructions? No lessons or recommended methods that have already eliminated masses of experiential mistakes .

For me , they have value if there is wisdom in application . The map may not be the territory , but you can be a lot better off with one, than without one when in unfamiliar territory .

To clarify the definitions for myself, I define Resh as the Sun salutation followed by an adoration(in the text as taught by a Superior).

Yes, I think the salutation obviously comes before the adoration ( ha ! we are making a general map of the stages :) )

In my 'method' it is the latter part that is 'as taught by superior ' ; ie 'composing oneself in meditation ' .

With the national anthem, it was as the people of the land towards in recognition through national identity. Collective consciousness experiment.

Thanks ... gotcha .

Originally it was to see if the national current resonated. True North strong and free does. Even the melody, with elements of Mozart's March of the Priests from the Magic Flute does.

My fav was to 'sing' ( chant , intone ) the adoration in Egyptian .


Experimentative. One example of reasoning is given above.
To develop a solar salutation from a modern understanding of the natural world.
Are/were you OTO?

Ah ! That goes back to my original question ... how would you tell ? ( without them self-identifying and without you knowing who their teacher was )


Immanent, hylozioc, hyperdimensional, gravitic(different from Eureka!) linked.


There's a lot to explore with that ritual.
If there's a way to open it up to general discussion, rather than focusing specifically on deconstructing my work expecting me to defend it, would be more encompassing and open up others to sharing their unique ideas without going off topic.

Yes. I am not interested in such an argument at all . I would like expereinced people to share THEIR expereinces with it , including any interesting results from modufactions and experiments (like you outlined )

I would not go further than this , for example ; '' my 'method' it is the latter part that is 'as taught by superior ' ; ie 'composing oneself in meditation ' . ie , although I think this is stated in the instructions , I am calling it as ''I think this'' , not 'NO! You are wrong ! It clearly says .... blah blah blah ... '

I had considered a Journal for my modernized solar salutation that recognizes the Earth's solar terminator when I get around to focusing on that. A Resh thread may make that happen sooner.

Hmmm ... if I read that right , you have developed Resh further away from the 'dying God formula ' to ; 'those considerations encouraged of the 'Master Magician ' ;) ?

or (if that signal is not received ) .... updated by 'modern' science and adaption from Geocentric to Heliocentric .
 
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