Transgender & Chaos Magick

[S.ROB]

I tend to consider myself both male and female anyone got any aspects on this related to chaos magic and ritual magic just curious on other peoples outlooks on feminine and masculine energies in one vessel.

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TRANS VOODOO: THE OCCULT WARS BY S ROB IS TARGETTED FOR EVERYONE. TRANSGENDER CURSES: TRIGGER WARNIG BY S ROB IS SPECIFICALLY FOR TRANS AND NONBINARY PEOPLE.

 

[Ohana]

I'll talk about what I think divine masculine and divine feminine energies are.

I think the divine masculine is the facts itself like a servant to the world and what the world is.

And I think the divine femine is the lack of care to the facts. The feelings. The emotional truth.

Because take for an example losing in the game monopoly. The facts/divine masculine state that yes it is not that big deal that someone lost in the game monopoly. It is just a game and it is does not define your worth as a person. It is monopoly there has to be a winner and a loser because it is a board game.

But the feelings/divine feminine says I have been betrayed by my closest friends in a game of lies. I have been tricked by a shiny hat piece. I have been lied to by the very same people I place my trust in. I cannot trust in a shiny hat piece now. I must sulk in a corner.

Both are right in a way. But the divine feminine feels as if its unbalanced now. That just my take though.

 

[Ananda]

There are two genders - male and female.

No, the Vedic religion and Buddhism recognizes the existence of transgenders. Buddhism considers it a result of bad karma, same as birth as a female. 'Two spirited' people are acknowledged in native american religious traditions.

 

[BBBB]

No, the Vedic religion and Buddhism recognizes the existence of transgenders. Buddhism considers it a result of bad karma, same as birth as a female. 'Two spirited' people are acknowledged in native american religious traditions.

Bad karma - that makes sense, actually (not as a prerequisite for being a female, though). But two-spirited people - this is brilliant. With that concept you don't "identify" with a gender, you demonstrate the ability. You are no less male or female, but you're also beyond that. This is big for occult work. And for understanding society. You can relate to both genders and their perspectives. And you have no problem with Hermetic work and two-gendered spirits (some spirits prefer one, while others can be either).
What they did in the West (and expanding it to the rest of the world aggressively) is a no-gender policy, actually: no genders have any rights, recognition and protection; men can't act manly, women can't act womanly, any can "identify" as they like, but that only leads to cringe and traumas for the real ones. And it doesn't help homosexuals, because since being one is a political statement and often leads to benefits, you have a lot of fake ones, and people tend to hate the priviliged, so real ones have it even worse.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

This, and I want to add, you don't have to be transgender or genderqueer in any way to actually harness feminine or masculine energies within you to do the work you need to do.

As Prince put it: "I got two sides and they both friends"

 

[Aldebaran]

The entire universe, everything, operates on a polarity - positive/negative, masculine/feminine, light/dark, etc. The foundation of this is the masculine and feminine. If you can harness the qualities of both, that would be very rare and special. I would assume you could then tap into both energies for your magic. However, I suspect, perhaps wrongly, that both are diluted. A feminine woman is not masculine, and vice versa with a man. I am not presenting this as good or bad but merely as an awareness for your magic. What is diminished in one area will probably need to be compensated for in another.

 

[Morell]

The entire universe, everything, operates on a polarity - positive/negative, masculine/feminine, light/dark, etc. The foundation of this is the masculine and feminine. If you can harness the qualities of both, that would be very rare and special. I would assume you could then tap into both energies for your magic. However, I suspect, perhaps wrongly, that both are diluted. A feminine woman is not masculine, and vice versa with a man. I am not presenting this as good or bad but merely as an awareness for your magic. What is diminished in one area will probably need to be compensated for in another.

I would not say that basic is polarity, rather cycles, a rhythm. a music, if you wish. Energy is a shaky wavelength and energy is base of everything.
Polarity of genders is just part of very long cycle of reproduction.

 

[Sabbatius]

No, the Vedic religion and Buddhism recognizes the existence of transgenders. Buddhism considers it a result of bad karma, same as birth as a female. 'Two spirited' people are acknowledged in native american religious traditions.

Two-Spirit (Ojibwa - ni'izh manidoowag) is not taught traditionally. It was eventually spoken of in the late 1980's. it is a creation of the times. Only gender role switching that ever happened beforehand was done when one was found to be gay(Sauk - (berdache), and it was mostly seen among males. When woman were found to be more masculine (Navajo - nádleehi) happened as well, but was still uncommon.

I will be blunt. It was frowned upon until the late 1980's. Most cases where it was seen as a distraction within the Tribe, the member was usually taken out and killed, then never spoken of afterward. If the individual was not a distraction and was consistent in working for the Tribe, that individual was accepted and people were fine. The issues were a matter of Tribal harmony. If Tribal harmony was disrupted, the ni'izh manidoowag was dealt with.

 

[Ananda]

Two-Spirit (Ojibwa - ni'izh manidoowag) is not taught traditionally. It was eventually spoken of in the late 1980's. it is a creation of the times. Only gender role switching that ever happened beforehand was done when one was found to be gay(Sauk - (berdache), and it was mostly seen among males. When woman were found to be more masculine (Navajo - nádleehi) happened as well, but was still uncommon.

I will be blunt. It was frowned upon until the late 1980's. Most cases where it was seen as a distraction within the Tribe, the member was usually taken out and killed, then never spoken of afterward. If the individual was not a distraction and was consistent in working for the Tribe, that individual was accepted and people were fine. The issues were a matter of Tribal harmony. If Tribal harmony was disrupted, the ni'izh manidoowag was dealt with.

Those interested can read references from anthropological research provided in the thread below.

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1. The bow and the burden strap : a new look at institutionalized homosexuality in native North America

Every culture, present and past, have people (usually men) presenting as transgenders, even where it can commonly lead to being disowned by one's family, ostracization, poverty, murder, having to live in the margins of society eking out a living as a prostitute, as in any muslim country in the present.

 

[Sabbatius]

Those interested can read references from anthropological research provided in the thread below.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

1. The bow and the burden strap : a new look at institutionalized homosexuality in native North America

Every culture, present and past, have people (usually men) presenting as transgenders, even where it can commonly lead to being disowned by one's family, ostracization, poverty, murder, having to live in the margins of society eking out a living as a prostitute, as in any muslim country in the present.

Interesting stuff - nothing contradictory, but just a different lens.
For the last 30 years, too much anthropological study has been agenda driven. This link is not that bad.
All I know is from oral tradition and Tribal histories which also are oral.
Thank you for the share.

 

[Accipeveldare]

There are two genders - male and female. Various thoughts, feelings and medical operations don't turn one into another. Very rarely some people get born androgynous, but I doubt that it is your case. Even if it was, if such person can produce semen then he would be considered male, otherwise female. Your gender is connected with your genitals. There is very little "genderization" in Magic unless we speak about some very modern "inventions", and if there is any, it has to do with what kind of genitals you have (or had - in case you allowed some medics to mutilate them). Perhaps you need to look more into classics to see that Magic is above all that "feminine/masculine energies" stuff. Now, I guess, I might get dislikes for what I wrote, but it becomes ridiculous to see where all this New Age stuff is going to.

I second this. No hate to OP, obviously. But at the end of the day, spiritual or not, your genitals are your gender. It never has and never will be more complicated than that. Also, it has been the subject of studies and has actually been found that wanting to be the opposite gender actually tends to be rooted in trauma or mental illness. We (i hope it is "we" ) care about you OP. However, magick is not gender based. Please, have an extravagent day.

 

[BBBB]

Yes, a lot of gender confusion out there, from ridiculous to dangerous. No, it's not that simple. Your body has a gender, your personality has gender, you spiritual part may have gender preferences, and of course you may have "karma" to spice things up. Denying that is not scientific.

 

[Morell]

I second this. No hate to OP, obviously. But at the end of the day, spiritual or not, your genitals are your gender. It never has and never will be more complicated than that. Also, it has been the subject of studies and has actually been found that wanting to be the opposite gender actually tends to be rooted in trauma or mental illness. We (i hope it is "we" ) care about you OP. However, magick is not gender based. Please, have an extravagent day.

I came to same conclusion about the genitals.

And from talking to transgender people I found the same thing too. 100% of those I've talked to, had some serious trauma.

 

[Accipeveldare]

I came to same conclusion about the genitals.

And from talking to transgender people I found the same thing too. 100% of those I've talked to, had some serious trauma.

Yes, indeed. And it is not to say that they are malicious people. They just have some things to work on.

 

[Morell]

Yes, indeed. And it is not to say that they are malicious people. They just have some things to work on.

I think that it is self rewiring that happens uncomsciously, as survival mechanism. Trying to get into the group that promises safety.

 

[Accipeveldare]

Yes, a lot of gender confusion out there, from ridiculous to dangerous. No, it's not that simple. Your body has a gender, your personality has gender, you spiritual part may have gender preferences, and of course you may have "karma" to spice things up. Denying that is not scientific.

Your body has a gender. You personality is just your personality. Your personality is what clothes you like, hobbies, foods, etc. Personality does not have gender. Your soul cannot have gender preferences as it is inherently genderless. As well as "karma" simply is not a thing. There is only universal cause and effect, not karma that follows you around to haunt you.

 

[Ohana]

I mean the traumas could be from not getting treated right in society. But thats what oppression can do to not just trans people but a lot of people.

People that get oppressed often get more traumas from the oppression leading to a cycle that alienates these people leading to more traumas leading to more oppression.

Even if that is right don't have to believe it to just respect people. People have different religions and believe different things all the time.

Also to you there is no gender associated magic but I'm just going off very old concept. There's the Taoist belief of yin and yang and those are commonly gendered.

 

[Accipeveldare]

I think that it is self rewiring that happens uncomsciously, as survival mechanism. Trying to get into the group that promises safety.

It is essentially just the brain trying to find a new "tribe" to validate its ego because the tribe it is currently in doesnt satisfy it enough.

 

[BBBB]

Your body has a gender. You personality is just your personality. Your personality is what clothes you like, hobbies, foods, etc. Personality does not have gender. Your soul cannot have gender preferences as it is inherently genderless. As well as "karma" simply is not a thing. There is only universal cause and effect, not karma that follows you around to haunt you.

You can make a manly man act like a little girl under hypnosis, and also leave it that way if you're cruel and do some deeper inductions in a right way... You personality has gender, or can even be made genderless, but then it won't know what to do with a gendered body. Calling instances of erratic personality matrices like that illness was incorrect and led to mistreatment (like digging into physical brains and elecric shock therapies, which seem to be used for everything for a while). Trauma can lead to personality problems, sure, but it's a mistake to assume clearing trauma restores gender by itself. Gender development in personality is a long process, it depends on having a healthy family and gendered culture, so boys could learn to be men and girls to be women.
Soul definitely has gender, because it is your personality matrix in a mystical language.
Spirit might have preferences, but in general it's androgynous (unless it's primitive), but it's also above your personality concerns, And it may have reasons to botch your gender singularity, I just call it karma here.