[Help] Vulture culture

[borbponderer]

One of my rescues died last year and she has been entombed in the back of my freezer ever since. I'm looking for a more permanent method of preserving some of her essence through preserving some of her remains.

A lot of the methods for stripping and preserving a skeleton would be impractical where I live and raise too much of a stink. I was thinking of perhaps mummifying her in salt?

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[Morell]

If you want to preserve the bones alone, the easiest way is to skin the corpse, remove all flesh you can, remove the brain too from the head, and then boil it. Then remove whatever you can and boil again. Multiple times if needed to remove every last bit of flesh. BTW do not eat the flesh, since the bird died on its own. I would maybe preserve some feathers from the wings too to be attached to the skeleton once you reassemble it if you want to...

 

[borbponderer]

If you want to preserve the bones alone, the easiest way is to skin the corpse, remove all flesh you can, remove the brain too from the head, and then boil it. Then remove whatever you can and boil again. Multiple times if needed to remove every last bit of flesh. BTW do not eat the flesh, since the bird died on its own. I would maybe preserve some feathers from the wings too to be attached to the skeleton once you reassemble it if you want to...

She was pretty sick at the time and already starting to smell bad before she died. The whole process was pretty gutting tbh. I worry that thawing and defleshing might raise too much of a smell. My upstairs neighbours are prissy young girl students who raised a massive fuss about a rat visiting the garden and already regard me with a mixture of awe and horror and fascination.

Kind of why I am thinking of transferring her frozen remains straight into box of salt and leaving her there for at least a year until she is thoroughly desiccated. There are some very ancient salt mine mummies that were discovered in Persia and which were exceptionally well preserved, so that is my line of thinking.

 

[Morell]

She was pretty sick at the time and already starting to smell bad before she died. The whole process was pretty gutting tbh. I worry that thawing and defleshing might raise too much of a smell. My upstairs neighbours are prissy young girl students who raised a massive fuss about a rat visiting the garden and already regard me with a mixture of awe and horror and fascination.

Kind of why I am thinking of transferring her frozen remains straight into box of salt and leaving her there for at least a year until she is thoroughly desiccated. There are some very ancient salt mine mummies that were discovered in Persia and which were exceptionally well preserved, so that is my line of thinking.

Still doable, you just have to be smart about it. Since you can wait, you can wait till the pissy girls will be away for few days. Don't they go home for x-mass or holidays? Or you can yourself do this alchemy somewhere else. Don't know your specific conditions but every problem usually has some sollutions.

Post automatically merged: Today at 7:17 AM

Actually, when we speak about preserving bones and such stuff, it also depends on how do you want to preserve it and for what purpose. Well cleaned bones are safe to touch so good for ritual work or for looking at. A salt mummy is well preserved, but it won't probably be nice to look at, not really esthetic thing, you understand. Salt should remove most if not all pathogens (viruses) though such preserved animal has to be sealed, like in a bottle or something because salt will attract humidity from the air. But if you want to jsut keep it stored, then I guess it goes.

 

[borbponderer]

You're right about the humidity. Before I got a dehumidifier, salt would recrystalise inside the cardboard packaging it came in. I had a bucket of epsom salts in the bathroom that turned to slush because the lid got left off.

My idea is to create a wood box shrine for the remains, seal it with wax, and put it away somewhere quiet. A home for the earthbound parts of her spirit. It's about respect for the creature as much as anything. I screwed up pretty badly with her care, although she was probably already fkd from the outset. Watching the process of her death was like her giving me a gift of insight into death mysteries. Least I can do really after she suffered like that.

Aesthetics are less of a factor that stabilising the remains. Keeping her entombed in ice is fine for now, but is hardly a permanent solution. She already looked pretty terrible before she died. I have some feathers from her last moult.

The neighbours are away for Easter. It's really just my own squeamishness I am up against as far as defleshing goes. Which I suppose makes me a terrible witch?

 

[Morell]

The neighbours are away for Easter. It's really just my own squeamishness I am up against as far as defleshing goes. Which I suppose makes me a terrible witch?

Not at all. I'm person who grew up hunting, killing, degutting, baking and eating fish. If you didn't, then it is simply not your thing, it's too alien to you. That does not affect you as a which. It just means that it is not your thing.

I worry a little about wooden box in this idea. If it won't be hermetically sealed, the salt will over time create a pond of salty water in the box. Be sure that it is not from clean wood with no protective covering. It is doable, I think. Just don't know about humidity. However the idea of box and a shrine is cool. I like it.

It is uneasy to think about alternatives on this case, because average person doesn't have much of specialized stuff at home. And if you feel bad about cleaning the bones, then preparation of your animal might be quite problematic. Boiling is one way. Another one is drying; baking and then drying until all that can decompose is completely dry, but again, humidity. Chemicals are out of question. Decomposing in water stinks like hell. Burring the corpse in fabric sack not to loose bones can be problematic, even if you do it somewhere hidden away from home... though this is also doable relatively well, if you pick good place.

 

[Romolo]

I have an alternative idea for you. Preserving a whole bird skeleton will be very hard, but the skull alone will be much easier. I have preserved the skull of a dead crow I found in our garden and I did it as follows: I removed the head from the body, boiled water in a kettle, poured the water in a bucket, then waited half a minute. Then I added the head (gently) until the feathers and remaining flesh came off. Make the head tumble around with a spoon. Don’t leave it too long in the water, the skull is VERY fragile, especially around the beak (it could snap in half). Afterwards I put the skull in a sunny spot on dry earth. Make sure no wind can reach this spot. I left it there for three days for ants and other insects to gnaw at. Then I tied it to a string and let it hang in the sun for three more days. By then the skull was perfectly dry. I keep the skull in a small wooden box that I stuffed with lavender, all wrapped up in a purple cloth. I found this whole process intense— crossing thresholds of fear, self-judgment, self-imposed societal norms. The skull “taught“ me more about death than I can put into words. I used its magical powers once, to guide/liberate a suffering pet safely into the afterlife.

 

[Morell]

Good info on experience. I'm not sure I would dare to keep crow skull, raven even worse, keeping bones of protected animals is very dark grey zone of the legislation in my country, often times if found out, it ends with parts taken a way and a huge fee to pay. People here usually say that the best way is not to keep it at all, but if you must, then keep it secret from everyone. Selling it is considered a crime here... well, without proper approval and papers. Don't know about your country but this is worth having some knowledge about.

 

[Romolo]

I understand that law and the reasoning behind it (people trapping birds to make a trade out of it), but in my country, 1.8 million chickens are slaughtered every day. I had no hand in the crow's death. In fact, it had been killed by a fox. (Interestingly, that same fox was found dead in our garden one week later! For the fox' corpse we called the police.) I buried the remainder of the crow's corpse in a corner of our garden, and still regularly put fallen flowers and snail shells on it as offering.

 

[borbponderer]

Not at all. I'm person who grew up hunting, killing, degutting, baking and eating fish. If you didn't, then it is simply not your thing, it's too alien to you. That does not affect you as a which. It just means that it is not your thing.

I worry a little about wooden box in this idea. If it won't be hermetically sealed, the salt will over time create a pond of salty water in the box. Be sure that it is not from clean wood with no protective covering. It is doable, I think. Just don't know about humidity. However the idea of box and a shrine is cool. I like it.

Yeah, I really only have minimal experience of that kind of thing. I'm not normie levels of squeamish, but I have my limits. I can pick up a decapitated pigeon corpse for purposes of a sky burial. I'm ok with healthy pigeon shit. But dealing with pigeon guts that are in the early stages of putrefaction is another matter entirely. I was able to kill a fish when I went fishing with my dad as a kid, but gutting is another matter entirely/

Salt is weird. The amount of surface area that is exposed seems to matter. Plastic containers have no problems with humid air exposure through the openings in the top. But cardboard absorbs moisture itself and exposes a much greater surface area and seems to act as a semi-permiable membrane for osmosis to take place.

I've got plenty of wax and oils and stuff like that. I suppose there is the issue as well that if moisture penetrates but isn't able to escape easily it would slowly build up? Kind of like the way that leather can rot from the inside by trapping moisture from using the wrong kind of oils.

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:13 PM

I understand that law and the reasoning behind it (people trapping birds to make a trade out of it), but in my country, 1.8 million chickens are slaughtered every day. I had no hand in the crow's death. In fact, it had been killed by a fox. (Interestingly, that same fox was found dead in our garden one week later! For the fox' corpse we called the police.) I buried the remainder of the crow's corpse in a corner of our garden, and still regularly put fallen flowers and snail shells on it as offering.

Absolutely. There is a massive double standard here. There is a need to prevent assholes from poaching wild creatures for profit. But on the other hand the avian livestock industry is heinous and disgusting. I'm not vegan, or even vegetarian, my body just won't stand it, but I have a hard rule about never eating birds.

 

[Morell]

But dealing with pigeon guts that are in the early stages of putrefaction is another matter entirely. I was able to kill a fish when I went fishing with my dad as a kid, but gutting is another matter entirely/

Reasonable. I'm no pro, still I always have pack of single-use medical gloves at home. Any place that sells medical stuff can sell you a pair. I always go for whole pack and let family to take whenever they need them too. Worth investing into. A corpse shouldn't be touched bare hand. I would take them on sick creatures too, even humans. Heh, my medical school remains with me. Lol.

I understand that law and the reasoning behind it (people trapping birds to make a trade out of it), but in my country, 1.8 million chickens are slaughtered every day.

Yeah, people see it different if it is animal grown and killed by humans. We have those farms here too. if I bought or collected chicken bones and sold them further, it would be no problem as long as it would be hygienically safe. Same with mice, rats and maybe even pigeons. Pests are not protected. I met with genuine business selling bones and jewelry made out of animal bones. Mostly mice and rabbits. I bought from them a python snake vertebrae bracelet. A little bit grey stuff, but again animal that was born and died in human care. Only regretting not getting purchase papers, that would protect me if anything.

I've got plenty of wax and oils and stuff like that. I suppose there is the issue as well that if moisture penetrates but isn't able to escape easily it would slowly build up? Kind of like the way that leather can rot from the inside by trapping moisture from using the wrong kind of oils.

Moisture is not on itself the main issue, but the mold is serious problem over time. It is unhealthy for humans to live in place with mold, it's toxic stuff. Leather is dried skin. So when it gets wet, it can continue it's natural process of decomposing. Leather really needs care... just like my swords, if I didn't oil my sword, it would start to rust... (not really, it's stainless, but habit is good to have)

 

[borbponderer]

Reasonable. I'm no pro, still I always have pack of single-use medical gloves at home. Any place that sells medical stuff can sell you a pair. I always go for whole pack and let family to take whenever they need them too. Worth investing into. A corpse shouldn't be touched bare hand. I would take them on sick creatures too, even humans. Heh, my medical school remains with me. Lol.


Yeah, people see it different if it is animal grown and killed by humans. We have those farms here too. if I bought or collected chicken bones and sold them further, it would be no problem as long as it would be hygienically safe. Same with mice, rats and maybe even pigeons. Pests are not protected. I met with genuine business selling bones and jewelry made out of animal bones. Mostly mice and rabbits. I bought from them a python snake vertebrae bracelet. A little bit grey stuff, but again animal that was born and died in human care. Only regretting not getting purchase papers, that would protect me if anything.


Moisture is not on itself the main issue, but the mold is serious problem over time. It is unhealthy for humans to live in place with mold, it's toxic stuff. Leather is dried skin. So when it gets wet, it can continue it's natural process of decomposing. Leather really needs care... just like my swords, if I didn't oil my sword, it would start to rust... (not really, it's stainless, but habit is good to have)

Mold is the one. I'm quite fascinated by fungus tbh. Spores come from the soil, everywhere. If you go back 1.3 billion years we share common ancestry. I'm not overly worried about it, but again limits.

Most of my old 35mm lenses have mold in them. Still use them on digital bodies. I actually bought some of those gloves for purposes of cleaning them with ammonia, but my style is more pictorialist so I decided to embrace the mold as a place for a spirit to live(also I'm lazy and some of those lenses are a nightmare to reassemble)

Used to know a bunch of tree hippies who foraged some death cap mushrooms and ate them. Required dialysis. Another hippie dipshit friend managed to poison us both with hemlock. Knowing what transpired with him more recently, I can't help but wonder if it wasn't deliberate. I digress...

Pigeons in Britain have a kind of mixed status. They and their nests are protected, but are also classed as a pest and you can kill them with a licence. Also as feral animals that were once domesticated they aren't protected in the same way as wild birds. Barely any truly wild rock doves left now. A small colony in the Outer Hebrides. Not sure about elsewhere.

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:10 PM

just like my swords, if I didn't oil my sword, it would start to rust... (not really, it's stainless, but habit is good to have)

I got a few carbon steel blades. Oiling is all part of the joy of ownership. Recently acquired a couple with bog oak scales. Serious mojo there. I put a mustard patina on one of them.

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:25 PM

I have an alternative idea for you. Preserving a whole bird skeleton will be very hard, but the skull alone will be much easier. I have preserved the skull of a dead crow I found in our garden and I did it as follows: I removed the head from the body, boiled water in a kettle, poured the water in a bucket, then waited half a minute. Then I added the head (gently) until the feathers and remaining flesh came off. Make the head tumble around with a spoon. Don’t leave it too long in the water, the skull is VERY fragile, especially around the beak (it could snap in half). Afterwards I put the skull in a sunny spot on dry earth. Make sure no wind can reach this spot. I left it there for three days for ants and other insects to gnaw at. Then I tied it to a string and let it hang in the sun for three more days. By then the skull was perfectly dry. I keep the skull in a small wooden box that I stuffed with lavender, all wrapped up in a purple cloth. I found this whole process intense— crossing thresholds of fear, self-judgment, self-imposed societal norms. The skull “taught“ me more about death than I can put into words. I used its magical powers once, to guide/liberate a suffering pet safely into the afterlife.

I did find a bird skull years ago. Nature had already done most of the cleaning. It was incredibly fragile just as you describe. You're right about the intensity. I find it so much easier to love creatures than other humans.