What is holding you back in magick?

[Xenophon]

What's mainly holding me back when it comes to practising is procrastinating by laboriously crafting long-ass comments to interesting forum posts like this one.

Didn't you write a beautiful piece about the Way of the Mind and the Way of the Heart some time ago? I wish I had bookmarked or copied it, you hit the nail right on the head there. As far as I can remember, most of us commented at the time that they were fine with the Way of the Mind but had difficulty with the Way of the Heart just like you, so you're not alone.

You can't return to a state of innocence. Never ever. You may succeed in developing a more mature type of enthusiasm but you can never restore that 'beginner's mind' of Zen buddhism simply because you're not a beginner anymore. I'm struggling with the heart issue the same as you; my clinical depression and/or my anti-depressant medication may be to blame for this but I've stopped to ponder this question long ago because an additional possibility would be that my firmly shut heart chakra is to blame for this blockage, another topic for endless rumination. I usually ignore that handicap or I'd have never get anything done in my life if I had blamed my depression for all my difficulties, and that empty-mind meditation puzzle I always go on about keeps me too busy from yearning for attaining magical career milestones like spirit evocation.

That damn "Enflame thyself with prayer" thing is a problem I struggle with, too. Exhibiting emotions does not come easy to me. I have yet to find a prayer that doesn't sound phony to me (all that grovelling, just disgusting); my watchword mantra is always "What's really there?", so I've taken a page out of Peter J. Carroll's "Liber Null & Psychonaut" and begun to improvise my praying: " The best form of this invocation [of the HGA] is spoken spontaneously, from the heart […]" Not much speaking from the heart yet but I keep on trying… Another one of my exercises is attempting to recite poetry with real emotion and without embarrassment - remember "Thunder: The Perfect Mind"? Something similarly visceral and simple, no turgid touchy-feely stuff. Removing my inhibitions would be normally psychotherapy country but I can't very well visit a therapist and ask him or her to help me improve the emotional quality of my magical incantations, can I?

I think it's great that you've identified this obstacle for your magical progess and asked for advice here. Other aspiring magicians spend their whole lives trying to do magic on a purely superficial level because they're uncomfortable with feelings or because they secretly suspect that they carry a snakepit full of ugly emotions inside of them and become even more intellectual as a result - no enflaming for them. Maybe I should try some trance work to reach a state of gnosis one day where inhibitions can't exist but I think I'll stick with the declaiming a little bit longer, just to be safe; I'm still a bit mentally shaky after some major crisis.

The first line is maybe a good point. On the other hand, your long-ass points generally inform and provoke the reader. Likewise, I imagine they conduce to your own clarity, so they're not necessarily holding you back. This forum has another poster who goes in for long-ass verbal treks too, but these most always hit an oasis or two en route and so repay both the reader and the writer.

 

[Vandheer]

"Hollow"? That adjective got worked to death way back in the days of "the Angry Young Men" dinnit? NPC is actually a pretty good neologism

Hollow, as in lacking a certain spark to do magick, or downright lacking a soul. Loosely related, but Gurdjieff thinks that most people don't have an I-self, but rather multiple fragments, and won't survive death unless they manage to bring out that self.

What's mainly holding me back when it comes to practising is procrastinating by laboriously crafting long-ass comments to interesting forum posts like this one.

Glad to be real annoying

Didn't you write a beautiful piece about the Way of the Mind and the Way of the Heart some time ago?

Thread 'Building blocks of a practitioner' Building blocks of a practitioner

I usually ignore that handicap or I'd have never get anything done in my life if I had blamed my depression for all my difficulties, and that empty-mind meditation puzzle I always go on about keeps me too busy from yearning for attaining magical career milestones like spirit evocation.

An interesting point there. I have seen some people stuck on their problems to the point they become that puppy that chases its tail non stop, both in other forums and this one. Perhaps its best to just soldier on sometimes.

embarrassment - remember "Thunder: The Perfect Mind"? Something similarly visceral and simple, no turgid touchy-feely stuff. Removing my inhibitions would be normally psychotherapy country but I can't very well visit a therapist and ask him or her to help me improve the emotional quality of my magical incantations, can I?

I actually did forget about that one. That was one of the best shares in recent times, I promised to Pyrokar I would read it, thanks for reminding me that. Your description sounds just the way I like a practice.

I think it's great that you've identified this obstacle for your magical progess and asked for advice here. Other aspiring magicians spend their whole lives trying to do magic on a purely superficial level because they're uncomfortable with feelings or because they secretly suspect that they carry a snakepit full of ugly emotions inside of them and become even more intellectual as a result - no enflaming for them. Maybe I should try some trance work to reach a state of gnosis one day where inhibitions can't exist but I think I'll stick with the declaiming a little bit longer, just to be safe; I'm still a bit mentally shaky after some major crisis.

One question I will never ever-EVER stop asking myself is: How far can we go in magick? I do believe I would fully quit if I ever stop asking it. I think we have to sink in deeper somehow, without losing identity, maybe be so deluded madness actually becomes a reality. But then again, would I risk asylum?

Get better soon mate.

Man y'all are cooking some quality comments, I am glad I opened this discussion.

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2024

The first line is maybe a good point. On the other hand, your long-ass points generally inform and provoke the reader.

It certainly does!

 

[Wintruz]

Through my Self-Work, I have identified four enemies which, in forms specific to each person, attack all who would Become. At varying levels of intensity, they assail everyone from Neophytes to Masters and I see no reason why they wouldn't continue to assail those who have gone as far as it's possible to go - in other words, the battle never stops. The struggle really is eternal. They are Fear, Illusion, Sleep and Despair.

Fear has permeated the general perception of initiation since men were in caves. It doesn't let up when one begins initiation but can be reduced by experience, until it operates only at the most subtle of levels. When a sorcerer has a "run of bad luck", and we all get many of these, you'll likely be able to trace that streak back to one thing going wrong and fear arising from "What happens next?". The sorcerer then subconsciously brings the run of bad luck into reality. If you get an unexpected curveball, take a moment to rationally see it as a one-off, don't let it spread further than that. This is doubly true if a second curveball comes at the same time. The good thing about dealing with fear is that it's unpleasant so, if you're paying attention to yourself, you'll know when it is trying to divert you.

Illusion is much harder to deal with because dreaming is often pleasant. Humans get so caught up in the towering edifices of their thoughts that two major things happen; we lose sight of Life and, crucially, we lose time. That is the objective of illusion, to waste time. It knows the clock is running down and as much time as can be siphoned off to Nothing is time that's not being spent on self-transformation. Those nice dreams we harbour quickly become nightmares when we remember that "belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom". We all have false beliefs in some area or another. The danger arises when we do not remember that. For those who refuse to accept the possibility that they might be wrong in their perceptions, they're likely to stay in dreamworld indefinitely (there are a lot of occultists in this place).

When you've stopped dreaming, Sleep may appear in a naked form. Sleep is the forum for all of the forces I've written about here. Fear of waking up and pleasant dreams both serve to keep us asleep. When those two dissolve, Sleep will whisper that there's nothing but Sleep. That it's actually Awakening that's an illusion and that we "deserve" a rest; "click on that link about some meaningless celebrity", "life doesn't always have to be serious", "don't Work tonight, scroll the internet until 3am instead", "put all of this fantasy out of your head and concentrate on getting a job and having a family. Yes, it's destroyed everyone you know but we have to live in the real world", "human-doing, not human-being". In more sophisticated forms it could even be "you don't really exist therefore there's nothing to wake up". Sleep is humanity's natural disposition and forces operate at all times, both externally and internally, to keep us here. Like illusion, laziness is (temporarily) pleasurable and hard to shake off and Sleep uses it to the fullest extent.

Despair is the last desperate attempt to keep us asleep or at least to not fully exercise being Awake. Generally it comes by telling us our shortcomings and uses those as a reason why we shouldn't wake up. "You're too old" and "your life is a mess" are both manifestations of this force, so too are any negative interpretations of philosophical nihilism. It almost always travels with depression. The difficulty with despair is that what it says is sometimes actually true. It therefore needs to be navigated with a good deal of skill. Commitment to virtue and truth for their own sake is a safeguard because we can then look at our shortcomings and realise that they do not change what is the "right" course of action.

 

[Taudefindi]

Removing my inhibitions would be normally psychotherapy country but I can't very well visit a therapist and ask him or her to help me improve the emotional quality of my magical incantations, can I?

Go learn acting, study theater.
You'll lose most, if not all, of your inhibitions.
Speaking from experience here.

 

[HoldAll]

Go learn acting, study theater.
You'll lose most, if not all, of your inhibitions.
Speaking from experience here.

Good idea, I already thought of looking into acting. It's a lot harder than one thinks to do an incantation without sounding overly melodramatic or completely lifeless. Those lines look very elegant on paper but when you try to read them out loud... my esteem for actors has definitely increased since I got into actual magical practice.

 

[Pyrokar]

well well well....
two staff members.
two lawbreakers

how dare you abuse your powers by drifting off topic into a secluded conversation on this, most holy of threads
my day is ruined and i can only hope the tyranical authorities will be dealt with most violently.
only then can we truly strike justice at the other criminals of this fine forum.

i've grown convinced something is holding me back but i don't know what
i was thinking i was just being really lazy, but my research and study phases produced a LOT, while the held back aspect started
showing in other parts of life. Like, it really took me a month to start a character in Baldurs-3, might be depresso?

not even worried about the practice it self, i can just see everyone scowling at the following but -
i always had high sensitivity, incantations invocations etc work pretty fast on me
can def. "feel" something building up in just few repetitions
in the practices that i did take up they all responded and clicked, and still i keep hesitating, avoiding.
something is holding me back for sure, i tend to agree with Wintruz, some sort of fear is gnawing at the core. hate it af

 

[Taudefindi]

well well well....
two staff members.
two lawbreakers

how dare you abuse your powers by drifting off topic into a secluded conversation on this, most holy of threads
my day is ruined and i can only hope the tyranical authorities will be dealt with most violently.
only then can we truly strike justice at the other criminals of this fine forum.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

The ugly pole of hermetics:
Procrastination and Tiredness.

 

[Vandheer]

The ugly pole of hermetics:
Procrastination and Tiredness.

What does that have to do with Hermetics?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

It was a joke. Procrastination is a preventative measure because it inevitably leads directly to "I'm too tired."

 

[Pyrokar]

@Taudefindi
it was just a joke
but the cringe factor of that meme as a reply physically hurts so ill play along
what exactly do you need explained about the content of said joke to understand?

 

[Vandheer]

It was a joke. Procrastination is a preventative measure because it inevitably leads directly to "I'm too tired."

 

[Pyrokar]

see, thats how you do it.

 

[Crows&Ravens]

Being a perfectionist with fear of success and fear of failure (see my phobias post).
Everything must be perfect. Single weak link breaks the chain.
But .. what of those who fail to reach their goals, questioned Azazel once.

This is the same for me as well.

 

[8Lou1]

at one point in time i found using magick with tools a downgrade and it made me wonder if that was spiritual arrogance on my side, so i took some time off to see if that what was shown to me is real and correct.

i also like to know it all. so when i for example pray i like to know where it goes, what it does to the universe, how it creates action, etc. so i also stop to see and learn from that.

i was once reading the picatrix and it said some where to take heed when a certain thing happens. ive noticed that that was wise advice. so thats an other reason.

and sometimes it just boring that certain magickal workings need 1000's of prayers and i havent found a workaround, yet.

 

[Crows&Ravens]

certain magickal workings need 1000's of prayers

I've done prayers and giving money to those that needed it the most as offering to the divine, in hopes that I would receive what I've asked for. I wasn't always 100% successful but when I was, I got a little more than I asked, and this was before I became a practitioner.

I remember speaking to religious people and they would say that sometimes you need to mean what you pray for. So that's what I came up with. Giving to receive, reap what you sew.

 

[8Lou1]

i learned i need to hit in order to receive, so after i received the asson i decided to learn how to take up the whip too. i ended up being angry at every god i could find until i found the highest one and i tried to kick his ass too. he laughed in my face and refused to let me die. sometimes you need to know that that what you pray for isnt going to happen in order to let something else happen.

its long since ive met someone who says give to receive instead of take and receive. its an honor to 'meet' @crows@ravens.

 

[Xenophon]

Go learn acting, study theater.
You'll lose most, if not all, of your inhibitions.
Speaking from experience here.

Good idea. I started out too damned shy. In grad school, a failed-actress turned philosophess taught me, "Teaching is acting!" It is and I left more slain inhibitions in my wake than the Clintons did "business associates."

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2024

Through my Self-Work, I have identified four enemies which, in forms specific to each person, attack all who would Become. At varying levels of intensity, they assail everyone from Neophytes to Masters and I see no reason why they wouldn't continue to assail those who have gone as far as it's possible to go - in other words, the battle never stops. The struggle really is eternal. They are Fear, Illusion, Sleep and Despair.

Fear has permeated the general perception of initiation since men were in caves. It doesn't let up when one begins initiation but can be reduced by experience, until it operates only at the most subtle of levels. When a sorcerer has a "run of bad luck", and we all get many of these, you'll likely be able to trace that streak back to one thing going wrong and fear arising from "What happens next?". The sorcerer then subconsciously brings the run of bad luck into reality. If you get an unexpected curveball, take a moment to rationally see it as a one-off, don't let it spread further than that. This is doubly true if a second curveball comes at the same time. The good thing about dealing with fear is that it's unpleasant so, if you're paying attention to yourself, you'll know when it is trying to divert you.

Illusion is much harder to deal with because dreaming is often pleasant. Humans get so caught up in the towering edifices of their thoughts that two major things happen; we lose sight of Life and, crucially, we lose time. That is the objective of illusion, to waste time. It knows the clock is running down and as much time as can be siphoned off to Nothing is time that's not being spent on self-transformation. Those nice dreams we harbour quickly become nightmares when we remember that "belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom". We all have false beliefs in some area or another. The danger arises when we do not remember that. For those who refuse to accept the possibility that they might be wrong in their perceptions, they're likely to stay in dreamworld indefinitely (there are a lot of occultists in this place).

When you've stopped dreaming, Sleep may appear in a naked form. Sleep is the forum for all of the forces I've written about here. Fear of waking up and pleasant dreams both serve to keep us asleep. When those two dissolve, Sleep will whisper that there's nothing but Sleep. That it's actually Awakening that's an illusion and that we "deserve" a rest; "click on that link about some meaningless celebrity", "life doesn't always have to be serious", "don't Work tonight, scroll the internet until 3am instead", "put all of this fantasy out of your head and concentrate on getting a job and having a family. Yes, it's destroyed everyone you know but we have to live in the real world", "human-doing, not human-being". In more sophisticated forms it could even be "you don't really exist therefore there's nothing to wake up". Sleep is humanity's natural disposition and forces operate at all times, both externally and internally, to keep us here. Like illusion, laziness is (temporarily) pleasurable and hard to shake off and Sleep uses it to the fullest extent.

Despair is the last desperate attempt to keep us asleep or at least to not fully exercise being Awake. Generally it comes by telling us our shortcomings and uses those as a reason why we shouldn't wake up. "You're too old" and "your life is a mess" are both manifestations of this force, so too are any negative interpretations of philosophical nihilism. It almost always travels with depression. The difficulty with despair is that what it says is sometimes actually true. It therefore needs to be navigated with a good deal of skill. Commitment to virtue and truth for their own sake is a safeguard because we can then look at our shortcomings and realise that they do not change what is the "right" course of action.

I'd add irony to the list. The habitual sarcasm of too many of present-day Westerners hamstrings the attitude needed to create anything. One squanders spirit trying to scry the once-worm in every possible butterfly. But, arguably, irony is just despair served on wry.

 

[pixel_fortune]

Holding me back: I still have the book/research-gluttony problem.

I'm not an armchair magician, especially at the moment. I'm doing ~1.5 hours of ritual every day, but somehow there is still always more to learn, more to read, and I know that, while some of this has value, there's a law of diminishing returns, and that my attitude is one of curiosity-as-greed. I would be better off saying "that's enough learning for now" and turning that time to meditation or prayer - or even physical fitness or cleaning or learning to paint or play music or socialising (with the right friends), making a more 3-dimensional life and building different neuron pathways, which I think all feed back into magic eventually.

As far as evocation, just never attempted it. I'm kinda afraid and somewhat skeptical. If I can bring a spirit and have chat with me, like an ARCHANGEL ...

For one thing these are to me EPIC beings, and I can call one up essentially and ask it to drop by for a chat and to do a coue favors for me?!

My (uninformed) view is that you're really calling up their pinkie finger, not the entirety of the being. They are this enormous band of energy and you're asking them to peel off a miniscule portion of it to engage with you. I see them (and maybe everything, but that's a digression), as holographic, in the sense of "each part contains the whole". So it's not really a pinkie finger, it's a tiny bit of bandwidth that contains the whole. It's also possible that (given every part of the universe contains in some way every other part), the archangelic energy has always been around you, and when you summon it, you're not making a change to the archangel, you're making a change to your antennae to perceive what was always there.

In this way it is not so audacious to call on them for a personal problem.

I can answer this question. My heart is closed. I became cynical at anything. Childlike wonder I had once is diminished. I can't enflame myself in prayer no matter how hard I try.

I have had some success in this. I got there not by "trying harder" but the way water gets into the cracks in rocks and erodes it, or freezes and splits it wider. I looked for the tiny places where I could feel something, and began with a tiny honour to that tiny place. For example, humour: I thought about how comedy/humour/jokes has always been there for people, even in, for example, the concentration camps. It couldn't save anyone, but it didn't abandon them. And I believe I can trust that it will never abandon me, than even in the most horrific apocalyptic future, I will still be able to make dark jokes about the cannibalism we're forced into or whatever, and still laugh. There are gods of comedy and humour. I don't stand in awe of them, but I can say, yeah, I respect you, I can say with sincerity that I am grateful to you for being there for [loved one with terminal illness] etc etc.

Maybe it wouldn't be comedy for you, but maybe there is some element of life that is the hairline fracture in your rock, that a tiny bit of water could find its way into. And not try and force it, only do what you can do honestly, even if that is the tiniest thing.

I was heartened by this quote from Israel Regardie's One-Year-Manual (which is a guide towards K&C of the HGA)

We do not have to do violence to ourselves to force ourselves to believe in Him ; there is no need for force. We do not have to will ourselves to believe. We need only to be willing, to make the necessary set of gestures, sincerely and honestly — and then work and invoke often!

He is saying that sincerely wanting to believe is enough; you don't have to believe yet.

 

[Xenophon]

Holding me back: I still have the book/research-gluttony problem.

I'm not an armchair magician, especially at the moment. I'm doing ~1.5 hours of ritual every day, but somehow there is still always more to learn, more to read, and I know that, while some of this has value, there's a law of diminishing returns, and that my attitude is one of curiosity-as-greed. I would be better off saying "that's enough learning for now" and turning that time to meditation or prayer - or even physical fitness or cleaning or learning to paint or play music or socialising (with the right friends), making a more 3-dimensional life and building different neuron pathways, which I think all feed back into magic eventually.




My (uninformed) view is that you're really calling up their pinkie finger, not the entirety of the being. They are this enormous band of energy and you're asking them to peel off a miniscule portion of it to engage with you. I see them (and maybe everything, but that's a digression), as holographic, in the sense of "each part contains the whole". So it's not really a pinkie finger, it's a tiny bit of bandwidth that contains the whole. It's also possible that (given every part of the universe contains in some way every other part), the archangelic energy has always been around you, and when you summon it, you're not making a change to the archangel, you're making a change to your antennae to perceive what was always there.

In this way it is not so audacious to call on them for a personal problem.


I have had some success in this. I got there not by "trying harder" but the way water gets into the cracks in rocks and erodes it, or freezes and splits it wider. I looked for the tiny places where I could feel something, and began with a tiny honour to that tiny place. For example, humour: I thought about how comedy/humour/jokes has always been there for people, even in, for example, the concentration camps. It couldn't save anyone, but it didn't abandon them. And I believe I can trust that it will never abandon me, than even in the most horrific apocalyptic future, I will still be able to make dark jokes about the cannibalism we're forced into or whatever, and still laugh. There are gods of comedy and humour. I don't stand in awe of them, but I can say, yeah, I respect you, I can say with sincerity that I am grateful to you for being there for [loved one with terminal illness] etc etc.

Maybe it wouldn't be comedy for you, but maybe there is some element of life that is the hairline fracture in your rock, that a tiny bit of water could find its way into. And not try and force it, only do what you can do honestly, even if that is the tiniest thing.

I was heartened by this quote from Israel Regardie's One-Year-Manual (which is a guide towards K&C of the HGA)


He is saying that sincerely wanting to believe is enough; you don't have to believe yet.

Our Izzy R. here reminds me of Pensées. Pascal tells his honnête homme target audience take a little holy water, say a prayer, belief will come. Even though I do not buy into his tradition and beliefs, the man was an astute psychologist. If you go through the motions, you start believing too. Think of it as a "spiritual" version of the Stockholm Syndrome, mais non?